St. Lucie teacher has students vote on whether 5-year-old can stay in class

[Heracles 417]

Private school is a totally different ball game though. They are also dealing with a different demographic of students and parents.

Even among private schools, there's a lot of variation. My wife teaches at a private school for kids with learning disorders and emotional problems (she calls it ED, I always laugh cuz I can't stop thinking of those Bob Dole ads). The kids are bussed in mostly from inner city school districts who don't have the resources to provide these kids with the 'appropriate' education they're legally entitled to. So this pvt school is very different from an elite prep school where the tuition is more than Harvard.. plenty of those in the area, too.

I have never heard of those type of private schools. I know the private schools in Melb are all pretty much college prep schools.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Private school is a totally different ball game though. They are also dealing with a different demographic of students and parents.

Even among private schools, there's a lot of variation. My wife teaches at a private school for kids with learning disorders and emotional problems (she calls it ED, I always laugh cuz I can't stop thinking of those Bob Dole ads). The kids are bussed in mostly from inner city school districts who don't have the resources to provide these kids with the 'appropriate' education they're legally entitled to. So this pvt school is very different from an elite prep school where the tuition is more than Harvard.. plenty of those in the area, too.

I have never heard of those type of private schools. I know the private schools in Melb are all pretty much college prep schools.

NJ has lots of them. Most of the public school districts don't have the staff and equipment to adequately care for kids with severe emotional disorders and/or more severe learning disorders. So the state allocates extra money which they send to the districts, who use it to fund a students education/therapy in one of these private schools.

[BabyBlueSusie 1]

this is what happens when the teacher watches too much survivor........

[CBR 0]

I think you missed the point. What the teacher did was wrong. It's wrong no matter what. If the child has disabilities or not. No teacher should be humiliating a child like this. No parent should either.

If the kid was acting up in class regardless if he has asperger's or not it should have been handled differently & involving the parents. Perhaps learning about how to properly deal with a child who has asperger's would have been a good place to start.

I guess teachers should just add that to the list. It would be interesting to see how much of a teachers time is actually spent teaching kids when compared to dealing with all of the other #######.

If a kid is unable to function in a class then they should be placed into other assisted classes. The teacher and every other kid in the class should not have to deal with them. The school systems need to set aside money to design specialized programs for these types of kids.

Yes they should add that to the list of learning. I am not a teacher, but I would think that they are educated to be able to spot learning disabilities. I would also think that they're taught what the proper route to take is once they spot a problem. Singling a 5 year old out & having his peers humiliate and vote him out of class would not be that route. Anyone with an ounce of compassion can figure that out. I agree that teachers have to deal with alot of ####### teaching today's kids and that parents need to take responsibility, but you're missing the entire point of this thread that what this teacher did was WRONG and immature and unprofessional.

You have very valid points, but arguing them in this thread is making it look like you agree with what was done to this kid. Of course he needs to be taken out of class when he acts up so the others can get the education they're entitled to, but the way it was done was freakin WRONG.

The problem with your last statement is that schools do not have the money to set aside for specialized programs. They have had to discontinue extracurricular activities, music classes, art classes etc... because of budget cuts. It's a nice thought, but I don't think taxpayers are up to it.

[Alhamdulillah 0]

According to this article, the child has not even been diagnosed with the disability that's being blamed for his behavior.

Barton said her son is in the process of being diagnosed with Aspberger's, a type of high-functioning autism. Alex began the testing process in February for an official diagnosis under the suggestion of Morningside Principal Marsha Cully.

It's possible he doesn't have this disability.... it's not like school officials have never made mistakes. One of my son's school counselors insisted my son had ADHD when he was younger as well and he was WRONG! And he authored books on the subject.....

I think you missed the point. What the teacher did was wrong. It's wrong no matter what. If the child has disabilities or not. No teacher should be humiliating a child like this. No parent should either.

If the kid was acting up in class regardless if he has asperger's or not it should have been handled differently & involving the parents. Perhaps learning about how to properly deal with a child who has asperger's would have been a good place to start.

I don't see how learning to deal with a child who has asperger's would help in a case where the child doesn't have it.

It sounds like the mother in this article may be one of those "my child is a perfect angel and never requires any discipline. Any wrong he may do should be blamed on some "condition" (which he may not have) and he should never be corrected for his behavior" so it seems like she may not have been much help to the teacher.

Again, I don't see anything wrong with allowing the other children to express their opinions and feelings to this child IF he was constantly disruptive or abusive to the other children and it would do him (and any other child) some good to learn that their behavior and actions affect other people in the world and that if you mistreat others regularly they may not want you around them.

Instead of making this a huge deal, it would have been better if the parents supported the teacher and used this opportunity to teach their child how to interact with others in society (no, 5 is not too young to begin to learn this lesson in life) and that there can be consequences if you make poor choices and refuse to respect others.

However, I still don't have an opinion in this particular case either way yet because the article didn't include enough information.

IF this child has a condition which makes him unable to interact with other children in a normal manner, then it's the school's or parents' fault for insiting that he stay in this classroom setting where he doesn't belong.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Personally I think I'd take the opinion of an actual working teacher over some nonsense personal opinion about what the child "deserved".

[Alhamdulillah 0]

Personally I think I'd take the opinion of an actual working teacher over some nonsense personal opinion about what the child "deserved".

The teacher in the article was also an "actual working teacher"

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Personally I think I'd take the opinion of an actual working teacher over some nonsense personal opinion about what the child "deserved".

The teacher in the article was also an "actual working teacher"

Sure - just one who seems to be quite bad at her job, if this accounting of the incident is accurate.

[CBR 0]

According to this article, the child has not even been diagnosed with the disability that's being blamed for his behavior.

Barton said her son is in the process of being diagnosed with Aspberger's, a type of high-functioning autism. Alex began the testing process in February for an official diagnosis under the suggestion of Morningside Principal Marsha Cully.

It's possible he doesn't have this disability.... it's not like school officials have never made mistakes. One of my son's school counselors insisted my son had ADHD when he was younger as well and he was WRONG! And he authored books on the subject.....

I think you missed the point. What the teacher did was wrong. It's wrong no matter what. If the child has disabilities or not. No teacher should be humiliating a child like this. No parent should either.

If the kid was acting up in class regardless if he has asperger's or not it should have been handled differently & involving the parents. Perhaps learning about how to properly deal with a child who has asperger's would have been a good place to start.

I don't see how learning to deal with a child who has asperger's would help in a case where the child doesn't have it.

It sounds like the mother in this article may be one of those "my child is a perfect angel and never requires any discipline. Any wrong he may do should be blamed on some "condition" (which he may not have) and he should never be corrected for his behavior" so it seems like she may not have been much help to the teacher.

Again, I don't see anything wrong with allowing the other children to express their opinions and feelings to this child IF he was constantly disruptive or abusive to the other children and it would do him (and any other child) some good to learn that their behavior and actions affect other people in the world and that if you mistreat others regularly they may not want you around them.

Instead of making this a huge deal, it would have been better if the parents supported the teacher and used this opportunity to teach their child how to interact with others in society (no, 5 is not too young to begin to learn this lesson in life) and that there can be consequences if you make poor choices and refuse to respect others.

However, I still don't have an opinion in this particular case either way yet because the article didn't include enough information.

IF this child has a condition which makes him unable to interact with other children in a normal manner, then it's the school's or parents' fault for insiting that he stay in this classroom setting where he doesn't belong.

Perhaps I can reword that for you. I believe teachers should be able to RECOGNIZE learning disorders and other problems so that kids get proper treatment.

This might also help explain...as a nurse I need to know and be able to recognize the symptoms of many many disorders & diseases so that I can alert my patient's doctor (who might not have had the opportunity to see the sign or symptom...or in the hospital I'm the one who sees it first). I believe teachers also should be aware of the many different learning & cognitive disorders that their pupils may have. They may be the first ones to notice it and get the child the help they need.

You'll be hard-pressed to find a parent out there who would support what this teacher did if it were their child that was affected like this. Did you not read how upset this boy is? He's never going to forget this. Didn't anybody ever pick on you when you were a kid? Do you not remember it? A teacher or authority figure doing the picking on is going to make a lifelong impact on a person's psyche.

I saw this parent on the news this morning and the child is currently undergoing tests to diagnose him and they believe he has asperger's. The teacher was well aware of this. Where did you read that anybody was insisting he stayed in that class?

[Fandango 1,439]

So what happens when parents fail though? They don't even get a slap on the wrist. Then it is all about rights and their constitutionally protected choices.

But when it comes to teachers it is a whole different story. It all becomes apparently part of their job. They are accountable for everything. From what the kid eats to what a kid says. The best I heard the other day was that apparently teachers only give homework to kids because they are not good at their job. This is from an actual dumb ### parent.

Kids in the third grade bring in weapons to kill the teacher yet absolutely no light is shined on their pathetic loser parents. Being a teacher in 2008 is probably one of the hardest, most undervalued and underpaid jobs out there.

It IS a part of their job. I'm a teacher, though higher levels, but we are trained to deal with emotional issues and to understand and recognize child abuse. So yes, the teacher is accountable. What she did is contrary to EVERYTHING we should do as teachers. This isn't a teacher giving too much homework. This is a teacher, A KINDERGARTEN teacher, leading her students in what is essentially a mob-mentality act of discrimination against a small boy with disabilities. That is unaccetpable and she should be held responsible.

I'll be the first to admit that teachers are undervalued and underpaid...if they are good at their jobs. But just because one is a teacher doesn't automatically make them better than others. I've met plenty of ####### teachers in my years in the profession. And I've met some brilliant ones as well.

If this teacher had been aware of the boys disabilities (which she was) (and btw, teachers are required to know this if there are tests taking place) then her actions are even more disgustng.

She should be fired. What she did is inexcusable.

Best.post.ever.

And whether the kid has a disability or not, this is inexcusable. But the question of the disability is still there...and obviously his issues are enough for the question to warrant testing.

####### are parents doing these days?? Or is their job solely to lie on their backs for 2 minutes...

Call me unimaginative, but I don't see how it works if both parents are on their backs.

Its called reverse cowgirl with a very flexible spine.

I just pictured it. Damn that is hot. Painfully hot.

Yippie oh kay-ay, muthatruka....

[KarenCee 3]

Personally I think I'd take the opinion of an actual working teacher over some nonsense personal opinion about what the child "deserved".

The teacher in the article was also an "actual working teacher"

I am an actual working teacher too, having taught for the last 13 years with the first 11 of those years in Special Education. I still say what this teacher did was WRONG and in NO WAY should be construed as discipline. Whether this child has a disability or not does not in any way give this teacher or any other teacher the right to do what she did. Whether or not you agree is, of course, your personal opinion. My personal and professional opinion is that this was wrong wrong wrong!!!

[Jenn! 918]

I agree that what this teacher did was wrong, common sense would tell you that.

However. I also feel that the schools often ask too much of teachers in terms of dealing with children with "issues". One of the things that turned me off of teaching here is having to deal with all of the IEPs, etc. I guess you can have some great teachers who can be masters at their subject *and* be able to deal with psychological problems and everything else, but I know I wasn't one of them. I wanted to teach, not to diagnose and manage psychological issues.

ETA: I don't mean to imply that an IEP means psychological issues. Two unrelated things to deal with.

Edited May 27, 2008 by Jenn!

[KarenCee 3]

I agree that what this teacher did was wrong, common sense would tell you that.

However. I also feel that the schools often ask too much of teachers in terms of dealing with children with "issues". One of the things that turned me off of teaching here is having to deal with all of the IEPs, etc. I guess you can have some great teachers who can be masters at their subject *and* be able to deal with psychological problems and everything else, but I know I wasn't one of them. I wanted to teach, not to diagnose and manage psychological issues.

ETA: I don't mean to imply that an IEP means psychological issues. Two unrelated things to deal with.

This is why so many really good teachers are leaving the profession.

[Alhamdulillah 0]

Perhaps I can reword that for you. I believe teachers should be able to RECOGNIZE learning disorders and other problems so that kids get proper treatment.

This might also help explain...as a nurse I need to know and be able to recognize the symptoms of many many disorders & diseases so that I can alert my patient's doctor (who might not have had the opportunity to see the sign or symptom...or in the hospital I'm the one who sees it first). I believe teachers also should be aware of the many different learning & cognitive disorders that their pupils may have. They may be the first ones to notice it and get the child the help they need.

You'll be hard-pressed to find a parent out there who would support what this teacher did if it were their child that was affected like this. Did you not read how upset this boy is? He's never going to forget this. Didn't anybody ever pick on you when you were a kid? Do you not remember it? A teacher or authority figure doing the picking on is going to make a lifelong impact on a person's psyche.

I saw this parent on the news this morning and the child is currently undergoing tests to diagnose him and they believe he has asperger's. The teacher was well aware of this. Where did you read that anybody was insisting he stayed in that class?

Why should teachers have to be psychologists and doctors? They don't get paid enough for that. Did you miss that it was a school counselor who misdiagnosed my child with ADHD in K5? I wouldn't want them diagnosing my child for ANYTHING.

What responsiblility to the parents have in getting their child diagnosed?

I fully support my childrens' teachers when they discipline my children in class and my kids know that and also know they are NOT gonna play me against their teacher EVER. I played that game as a child, I remember it.

Maybe this boy wouldn't be having such a big problem with it if his mom would have supported the teacher disciplining her child and explained that there are consequences when we make poor choices instead of running to the newspapers and looking for a free ride by exaggerating and using this incident so she can sue someone (I wouldn't doubt it).

But again, I don't have enough information to form a legitimate opinion about this particular case.

Personally I think I'd take the opinion of an actual working teacher over some nonsense personal opinion about what the child "deserved".

The teacher in the article was also an "actual working teacher"

I am an actual working teacher too,

I assumed you were the working teacher Number 6 was referring to.

[palilover 1]

No way was this a suitable punishment for a kid with or without disabilities. If an incident did lead up to this, as if she was doing this for punishment, then I think she could have handled it a certain way. Don't kids get placed in the corner at recess anymore for example? Detention? Principal's office? Notes to mommy? Perhaps I've been out of school too long?

As for parents sitting on their butts...yes it does happen. But you cannot say that no one does anything when a parent does something. We do have the child protection services people who come after parents if they slap their kid in public ya know:) So yes parents get fusses made about them more than teachers I'm sure. you just don't see it on cnn everyday because if you did, I think cnn would not have enough time to report on the election coming up:)