St. Lucie teacher has students vote on whether 5-year-old can stay in class

[sweetpink 1]

I was a pre-school teacher before coming here in US. I happened to have 2 kids in my class who are autistics and they have their days of tantrums and misbehaving. I also explained to the other kids about the case of their 2 classmates and they even helped them doing their seat works. Most of the days I gave an assessment and if they couldn't cope with the regular school work I had to give them simple activities that is on their level of graps. Parents of these kids just wanted them to have a normal relationships of the other kids of their age. And it's very rewarding that at the end of the school year you'll see them marching on stage with the other kids.

Edited May 26, 2008 by sweetpink

[jundp 191]

So what happens when parents fail though? They don't even get a slap on the wrist. Then it is all about rights and their constitutionally protected choices.

But when it comes to teachers it is a whole different story. It all becomes apparently part of their job. They are accountable for everything. From what the kid eats to what a kid says. The best I heard the other day was that apparently teachers only give homework to kids because they are not good at their job. This is from an actual dumb ### parent.

Kids in the third grade bring in weapons to kill the teacher yet absolutely no light is shined on their pathetic loser parents. Being a teacher in 2008 is probably one of the hardest, most undervalued and underpaid jobs out there.

It IS a part of their job. I'm a teacher, though higher levels, but we are trained to deal with emotional issues and to understand and recognize child abuse. So yes, the teacher is accountable. What she did is contrary to EVERYTHING we should do as teachers. This isn't a teacher giving too much homework. This is a teacher, A KINDERGARTEN teacher, leading her students in what is essentially a mob-mentality act of discrimination against a small boy with disabilities. That is unaccetpable and she should be held responsible.

I'll be the first to admit that teachers are undervalued and underpaid...if they are good at their jobs. But just because one is a teacher doesn't automatically make them better than others. I've met plenty of ####### teachers in my years in the profession. And I've met some brilliant ones as well.

If this teacher had been aware of the boys disabilities (which she was) (and btw, teachers are required to know this if there are tests taking place) then her actions are even more disgustng.

She should be fired. What she did is inexcusable.

[jundp 191]

Completely agree with you. Teachers are TOTALLY undervalued and it's a shame. Perhaps if it was a more valued profession, crappy teachers like this person who obviously doesn't care about children and has the emotional empathy at the level or below of the children he/she teaches would be pushed out of the field.

The good teachers have been pushed out of the field or to other countries for a variety of reasons. The amount of pressure on them and the amount of things they are now responsible for, ironically apart from teaching, is just not worth the money. In the corporate world they would be on way over $65K.

Teachers are the bedrock of a society. Without them the United States is finished. The US already ranks one of the lowest in the OECD world. Barely above Mexico.

I respectfully disagree with this. This is a blanket generalization. I am a "good" teacher and many of my friends are "good teachers" too. I do happen to make very good money, though I would make more in another field. Most of the "good" teachers I know stay because they feel teaching is a calling, not because of the "fabulous perks!!!!" We are responsible for an increasing number of non-teaching-related things, true, but I think you will find that many teachers (good ones) stay because of the students anyway. My situation is different because I chose to take a position in a private school (which, btw, is lower paid than public) so I avoid many of the problems that my public-school-teaching friends encounter. But, I think it's a cop-out to blame poor teaching on low pay.

I can't argue with the rest of your statements, because we are undervalued and the US does SUCK when compared to other countries in education. But, one thing I have found interesting is a comment one of my international students made. My school has a large population of international students (they come here to learn English, study, etc. and live in a dorm or host families) and I teach many of the ones who have been here long enough to be in mainstream English classes. One boy recently told me that the difference between education in America and education in his home country (Japan) is that here he knows his teachers care about him as a person which makes him want to do his best. Now, that may not be true in all schools, but it's certainly true in mine. We still have parents who blame and point fingers and refuse to take responsibility for the monsters they've raised (the numbers are low at my school) but not many.

[Alhamdulillah 0]

I would need more information before forming an opinion.

Perhaps this child was VERY disruptive and abusive towards the other children on a daily basis and this teacher was trying to show him how he makes his fellow classmates feel by letting them express their opinions.

On the other hand, maybe she really is just a poor teacher but I would need to know more of the facts other than what the boy's mother has to say about it.

[KarenCee 3]

I would need more information before forming an opinion.

Perhaps this child was VERY disruptive and abusive towards the other children on a daily basis and this teacher was trying to show him how he makes his fellow classmates feel by letting them express their opinions.

On the other hand, maybe she really is just a poor teacher but I would need to know more of the facts other than what the boy's mother has to say about it.

That is NO EXCUSE for doing this to ANY child, especially a child who has Asperger's Syndrome or any other disability. I have dealt with VERY disruptive children in my 13 years of teaching elementary age children and I have NEVER, EVER done a child this way nor will I ever do so. If interested, I have been evaluted on a regular basis in the classroom and I have always received very satisfactory comments on my performance as a teacher and with how I handle my students. More education on this child's particuluar disability is IMHO severely lacking for this teacher.

Not only does it devalue the child but it also devaluse me as an educator. Whether or not more information is needed does in no way excuse what this teacher did to this child. I am also aware of how some parents can be regarding their children. Still, expressing one's opinion is very different from voting to remove this child from the classroom.

[Alhamdulillah 0]

I would need more information before forming an opinion.

Perhaps this child was VERY disruptive and abusive towards the other children on a daily basis and this teacher was trying to show him how he makes his fellow classmates feel by letting them express their opinions.

On the other hand, maybe she really is just a poor teacher but I would need to know more of the facts other than what the boy's mother has to say about it.

That is NO EXCUSE for doing this to ANY child, especially a child who has Asperger's Syndrome or any other disability. I have dealt with VERY disruptive children in my 13 years of teaching elementary age children and I have NEVER, EVER done a child this way nor will I ever do so. If interested, I have been evaluted on a regular basis in the classroom and I have always received very satisfactory comments on my performance as a teacher and with how I handle my students. More education on this child's particuluar disability is IMHO severely lacking for this teacher.

Not only does it devalue the child but it also devaluse me as an educator. Whether or not more information is needed does in no way excuse what this teacher did to this child. I am also aware of how some parents can be regarding their children. Still, expressing one's opinion is very different from voting to remove this child from the classroom.

I disagree. I've seen homeschooling mothers effectively use a method similar to this with their own children when one child is abusive towards the others and I frequently use this with my own children. Believe it or not, it can be character building to teach children how their actions and behavior affects others in the class/family.

I feel it's borderline abusive not to address these issues beginning at a young age because, if a child is never made aware of how he makes others feel or of the fact that he does have an affect on those around him, he will most likely grow up to be self-centered and unconcerned with those around him his entire life.

Even children with learning/behavioral disabilities can usually learn these lessons in life. If his disability is severe enough to prevent him from intereacting with others in an appropriate way then maybe he should be in a classroom more suited to his special needs.

[jundp 191]

I would need more information before forming an opinion.

Perhaps this child was VERY disruptive and abusive towards the other children on a daily basis and this teacher was trying to show him how he makes his fellow classmates feel by letting them express their opinions.

On the other hand, maybe she really is just a poor teacher but I would need to know more of the facts other than what the boy's mother has to say about it.

That is NO EXCUSE for doing this to ANY child, especially a child who has Asperger's Syndrome or any other disability. I have dealt with VERY disruptive children in my 13 years of teaching elementary age children and I have NEVER, EVER done a child this way nor will I ever do so. If interested, I have been evaluted on a regular basis in the classroom and I have always received very satisfactory comments on my performance as a teacher and with how I handle my students. More education on this child's particuluar disability is IMHO severely lacking for this teacher.

Not only does it devalue the child but it also devaluse me as an educator. Whether or not more information is needed does in no way excuse what this teacher did to this child. I am also aware of how some parents can be regarding their children. Still, expressing one's opinion is very different from voting to remove this child from the classroom.

I disagree. I've seen homeschooling mothers effectively use a method similar to this with their own children when one child is abusive towards the others and I frequently use this with my own children. Believe it or not, it can be character building to teach children how their actions and behavior affects others in the class/family.

I feel it's borderline abusive not to address these issues beginning at a young age because, if a child is never made aware of how he makes others feel or of the fact that he does have an affect on those around him, he will most likely grow up to be self-centered and unconcerned with those around him his entire life.

Even children with learning/behavioral disabilities can usually learn these lessons in life. If his disability is severe enough to prevent him from intereacting with others in an appropriate way then maybe he should be in a classroom more suited to his special needs.

There is a huge difference between homeschooling and parental discipline and the TRAINING and EDUCATION BACKGROUND that a teacher must have to be in a classroom setting with a variety of children of different homes. I am also a parent and I still don't believe that humiliation and emotional abuse is the way to treat kids with disabilities.

There's no advocating selfish behavior here. Yes children should learn lessons in life, but 5 year olds do not deserve to be paraded in front of their classmates and told all the negative things about them.

There is a big difference between an unruly and undisciplined child and a child with Aspberger's Syndrome. And that is why educators need to be aware of these things (and the good ones are, as Karen said).

[Amby 490]

When I was in elementary school there was an autistic boy in my class. He spent a lot of his time in our classroom but he also had a special tutor that worked with him on a daily basis. If he had a tantrum they would have him sit on a rug at the back of the classroom until he calmed down. Once they started doing that he rarely had tantrums anymore. All the kids really helped him a lot and were really friendly to him. I remember he liked to poke everyone in the stomach and have them make the noise that pillsbury doughboy makes

Edited May 26, 2008 by Amby

[jundp 191]

When I was in elementary school there was an autistic boy in my class. He spent a lot of his time in our classroom but he also had a special tutor that worked with him on a daily basis. If he had a tantrum they would have him sit on a rug at the back of the classroom until he calmed down. Once they started doing that he rarely had tantrums anymore. All the kids really helped him a lot and were really friendly to him. I remember he liked to poke everyone in the stomach and have them make the noise that pillsbury doughboy makes

That's sweet

[KarenCee 3]

I disagree. I've seen homeschooling mothers effectively use a method similar to this with their own children when one child is abusive towards the others and I frequently use this with my own children. Believe it or not, it can be character building to teach children how their actions and behavior affects others in the class/family.

I feel it's borderline abusive not to address these issues beginning at a young age because, if a child is never made aware of how he makes others feel or of the fact that he does have an affect on those around him, he will most likely grow up to be self-centered and unconcerned with those around him his entire life.

Even children with learning/behavioral disabilities can usually learn these lessons in life. If his disability is severe enough to prevent him from intereacting with others in an appropriate way then maybe he should be in a classroom more suited to his special needs.

Therein lies the issue: is this child being served for his disabilities? I cannot fathom how using such a method of humiliation can ever be an effective method of behaviour management...homeschooled or not. Please, elaborate on how using such a method can build positive character in a child? Have you been trained in child behaviour management? There are other ways better suited to teach a child effectively. Teaching a child how their behaviour affects others around him/her is one thing. Humiliation is another. THAT has no place at all in parenting or in education. I stand by what I said.

By the way, I am the parent of a child with multiple disabilities. I do not, never have, and never will use humiliation and/or anything like this in parenting my child. She is a well behaved child and has never caused a problem at home or at school. How sad that any parent feel that they have to resort to such immature behaviour to control their children. That, IMHO, is borderline abusive behaviour...on the part of the parent.

[britty 1]

I would need more information before forming an opinion.

Perhaps this child was VERY disruptive and abusive towards the other children on a daily basis and this teacher was trying to show him how he makes his fellow classmates feel by letting them express their opinions.

On the other hand, maybe she really is just a poor teacher but I would need to know more of the facts other than what the boy's mother has to say about it.

I too would be interested in knowing what behavior led to this incident.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Yep - pretty nuts. A "good" teacher wouldn't hold up one of their students up as a figure of fun for the rest of the class to ridicule.

[KarenCee 3]

I would need more information before forming an opinion.

Perhaps this child was VERY disruptive and abusive towards the other children on a daily basis and this teacher was trying to show him how he makes his fellow classmates feel by letting them express their opinions.

On the other hand, maybe she really is just a poor teacher but I would need to know more of the facts other than what the boy's mother has to say about it.

I too would be interested in knowing what behavior led to this incident.

The teacher admitted that the incident did occur. What more would anyone need?

"Steele said the teacher confirmed the incident did occur."

[Heracles 417]

It IS a part of their job. I'm a teacher, though higher levels, but we are trained to deal with emotional issues and to understand and recognize child abuse. So yes, the teacher is accountable. What she did is contrary to EVERYTHING we should do as teachers. This isn't a teacher giving too much homework. This is a teacher, A KINDERGARTEN teacher, leading her students in what is essentially a mob-mentality act of discrimination against a small boy with disabilities. That is unaccetpable and she should be held responsible.

When was that slipped into their job description? I just don't buy how everything is part of a teacher's job. An attitude that would never be acceptable in the corporate world. Counties know that teachers do not have the luxury of jumping ship as easily as people in the private sector so they just stack it on them.

Elementary schools now teach kids from sex to ethics. Even how to behave like normal human beings. ####### are parents doing these days?? Or is their job solely to lie on their backs for 2 minutes and then let everyone else deal with the consequences. Next teachers are going to be required to paint their rooms with their own money. If I was a teacher I would claim all of the students as dependents on my tax return. After all they are pretty much raising them nowadays. The emotional baggage some of these kids carry is amazing. What even happened to actually teaching the text. Elementary schools in America have become extended daycare.

I can understand how and why these things happen though. A lot of counties around the country are wasting millions on educating illegal immigrant and hiring ESOL teachers to cater for non-English speaking kids. Therefore something has got to be cut to make way for this great expense. Consequently the money that should be spent assisting kids like that is no longer available. Therefore the responsibility now lies on the teacher.

Teachers #### up and they should die. Yet when parents #### up nothing is ever done. First year teachers here in Vic, AUS now start on $51K. This is finally a good starting point for them considering the BS that they have to deal with.

Edited May 26, 2008 by Boo-Yah!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

THIS teacher in THIS article was in charge of THIS group of kids. It seems that she failed in her duty of care to one of those children. Of course parents are going to be angry about it - they have a right to be concerned.