Birmingham (Alabama) mayor denies gay parade permit

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

You believe in god without a shred of evidence that it's true, let alone undeniable proof, and yet you are unwilling to accept any of the many studies that show that there is almost certainlyl a genetic componant to being gay. You dismiss any anecdotal evidence and doggedly stick to your 'it's a sin, immoral and disgusting' argument. There's logic for you.

I have seen undeniable proof of the existance of God, I'm sorry you have not.

There is no study that has proven that there is a "gay gene" or gay babies. It's a learned behavior, plain and simple.

I'm sorry but that's more than a little irrational. I'll warrant that if I were to ask for this "undeniable proof" of God's existence I would receive nothing approaching a straight answer. Certainly nothing that would amount to a straight answer in the language that you are demanding from everyone else in regard to homosexuality.

There are plenty of things that scientists believe but cannot conclusively prove - it doesn't make them automatically untrue. Though I suspect that if and when such an answer is available - the hardcore zealots will just turn around and find some new, deceptive means of injecting their self-deception into the mainstream, as has happened with Intelligent Design.

In any case - why are you hanging onto the idea of "learned behaviour" as though its important in regard to what we're talking about? This elected official (tried to) deny a constitutionally protected freedom to a group of his constituents on the basis of what amounts to his own personal opinion. I can't imagine any instance where that would be acceptable.

[Peikko 1,575]

She/he can hold any opinion she likes, it's no skin off my nose, I tolerate those who think they have been adducted by aliens too

I guess your sensitivity is selective! I might also say it is contrived and artificial as he!!.

You are free to say so - it doesn't make it true though.

I have no axe to grind regarding religion. People believe all kinds of things and whenever that belief has no affect on the ability of others to live their lives they can carry on and do so. However, this religious person is asking for 100% proof that genetics plays a significant part in someone being gay, a preponderance of proof doesn't even put a dent in his/her belief that homosexuality is immoral, repugnant and sinful. Why? Because only 100% proof is good enough if the belief is something the perfect being of god has dictated, after all, scientist are fallible.

However, the documents, purportedly coming from god. that state that this is how we should regard homosexuals and which this person is citing as the source for the belief that homosexuality is sinful, immoral and repugnant were written not by god but by fallible humans. Not only am I being told to believe in something that there is no shred of evidence to suggest exists, but I am also being told to believe that humans can perfectly translate the thoughts of this 'perfect being'.

If you can't see the flaw in this line or reasoning, well that's just sad.

If your gonna play miss sensitive, then play it with everyone. Thats all im sayin. Being all sensitive towards gays and then slammin religion knowing of ppl's beliefs is hypocritical at best. I am not religious at all myself. However I beleive there is something much more powerful than my scrawny a$$.

I am not being sensitive to gays, I am explaining the logic that goes into my acceptance of gays. During the course of the argument I was asked to take the word of god over a logical view of what it is to be gay. It is interesting that you view my rejection of that line of thinking as insensitive. I only questioned their belief in god because they refused to consider any scientific evidence that being gay is genetic. Fair is fair if you are going to have a discussion - or not as the case may be.

Oh boy, sheesh. Just forget it.

Sure, take the easy way.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

God doesn't make mistakes....

.... and God created people who are gay.

I wonder how birth defects factor into God's Design.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

She/he can hold any opinion she likes, it's no skin off my nose, I tolerate those who think they have been adducted by aliens too

I guess your sensitivity is selective! I might also say it is contrived and artificial as he!!.

You are free to say so - it doesn't make it true though.

I have no axe to grind regarding religion. People believe all kinds of things and whenever that belief has no affect on the ability of others to live their lives they can carry on and do so. However, this religious person is asking for 100% proof that genetics plays a significant part in someone being gay, a preponderance of proof doesn't even put a dent in his/her belief that homosexuality is immoral, repugnant and sinful. Why? Because only 100% proof is good enough if the belief is something the perfect being of god has dictated, after all, scientist are fallible.

However, the documents, purportedly coming from god. that state that this is how we should regard homosexuals and which this person is citing as the source for the belief that homosexuality is sinful, immoral and repugnant were written not by god but by fallible humans. Not only am I being told to believe in something that there is no shred of evidence to suggest exists, but I am also being told to believe that humans can perfectly translate the thoughts of this 'perfect being'.

If you can't see the flaw in this line or reasoning, well that's just sad.

If your gonna play miss sensitive, then play it with everyone. Thats all im sayin. Being all sensitive towards gays and then slammin religion knowing of ppl's beliefs is hypocritical at best. I am not religious at all myself. However I beleive there is something much more powerful than my scrawny a$$.

I am not being sensitive to gays, I am explaining the logic that goes into my acceptance of gays. During the course of the argument I was asked to take the word of god over a logical view of what it is to be gay. It is interesting that you view my rejection of that line of thinking as insensitive. I only questioned their belief in god because they refused to consider any scientific evidence that being gay is genetic. Fair is fair if you are going to have a discussion - or not as the case may be.

Oh boy, sheesh. Just forget it.

Sure, take the easy way.

With you its the only way.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Marc - perhaps you ought to stick to what you do best and make crude jokes about 600lb hookers

[Fandango 1,439]

I have seen undeniable proof of the existance of God, I'm sorry you have not.

Tell me what undeniable proof you have on the existance of God, please, I am interested to hear this.

The question was not directed at me, but I, too, know the existence of God has been proven to me many many times in my life.

Like being told by a dr 'I have no medical explanation as to why you're alive right now'....keep in mind I am being short for simplicity's sake. That is not the only time nor even the most apparant, but it was the first one to spring to mind & not too personal to share.

But my post now is not to defend the person you're replying to, but just to give my .02 that people can KNOW with all their hearts that God exists....it's just a different experience for each of us.

ETA: I am CHUFFED that the parade is back on! Woot!

\

Would you allow science to 'prove' theories based on your 'proof' of the existance of god? That is all I am saying. You have a right to feel whichever way you want to about your experiences. Hoewever if you are going to take your experiences as the basis of an argument then you might be expected to be more scientific about your 'proofs' particularly if you are going to reject other scientific evidence because it goes against what you think that experience prooves.

The reason why I posted what I did is because I didn't want to just sit back and not defend what myself and others feel is the undeniable proof that God exists...can it be proven with science? Of course not. I addressed that at the end...it's a different experience for each and every one of us.

I was not trying to defend this particular poster because I think her logic is quite flawed, I don't agree with her stance on gays, and yes, it does straddle both sides of the scientific issue....

I have seen far too many kids grow up thinkin 'this kid is gay' so yeah, I don't believe being gay is a choice. What a fkin way to live...you'd have to be crazy to face this bullsh!t every day!

[Peikko 1,575]

Reason for edit (@ Mark not Bunny)

Edited May 27, 2008 by Purple_Hibiscus

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

Marc - perhaps you ought to stick to what you do best and make crude jokes about 600lb hookers

Ya mean she hasnt got to your house yet. She wanted to meet you! Somethin about saddlin you up and takin you for a ride.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Marc - perhaps you ought to stick to what you do best and make crude jokes about 600lb hookers

Ya mean she hasnt got to your house yet. She wanted to meet you! Somethin about saddlin you up and takin you for a ride.

Aha - "Yo momma" style quips, the best

In that vein I can't imagine the situation where that would crop up in the course of your (alleged) transaction. Are you sure you're quite secure in your sexuality Marc?

[Ban Hammer 13,355]

I have seen undeniable proof of the existance of God, I'm sorry you have not.

ditto when i first saw nessa

[SaadBell 0]

SpiritAlight – Impressive video, I admire Richard Dawkins, he is just brilliant. Not sure if all of VJ would understand, maybe Darwin was correct about intellect and God, interesting theory.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

Marc - perhaps you ought to stick to what you do best and make crude jokes about 600lb hookers

Ya mean she hasnt got to your house yet. She wanted to meet you! Somethin about saddlin you up and takin you for a ride.

Aha - "Yo momma" style quips, the best

In that vein I can't imagine the situation where that would crop up in the course of your (alleged) transaction. Are you sure you're quite secure in your sexuality Marc?

You better watch it. Those kinda words can be construed as racial insensitivity. My sexual security is very much intact. However yours looks a bit iffy.

[sarahaziz 0]

Give me a break. My first thought when i meet a gay man is not, Oh, they probably have AIDS. And even if they did have HIV or AIDS, most people are smart enough to know that you will not get HIV just by being around someone who is HIV positive. There is no room in my life for people who are that ignorant.

People who don't want to be around homosexuals are not worth being around. Homosexuals aren't the problem--it's ignorance. I know plenty of gay people who lead perfectly wonderful lives. Being gay didn't prevent them from having enormously successful careers in a mainstream profession. My dad's business partner and best friend is openly gay, and I have never heard of them losing a client because of it.

So you're saying that it is better to miserable all your life on the off chance that some incredibly ignorant person wouldn't want to associate with you? I think the choice is clear.

people who matter - your family siblings aunts uncles best childhood friends i.e. your parents friends not wanting to associate with your family anymore bc of you. I wouldn't want that hanging on my shoulders. My mother crying b/c I wanted to have sexual intercourse with a girl all my life. That's pretty selfish in my views then again I don't think there's too much parent child interaction anymore these days in America so I can see the deal of I'm gay so fk anybody who doesn't accept me.

Even knowing diseases and HIV can't be spread as easily people are still cautious - seriously if you need to comprehend that statement try telling a boss, co worker, teacher , friend that you have HIV/AIDS see how fast they'll distance themselves from you. There's too much advertising everywhere that unprotected sex and gays automatically link to HIV not everyone is educated on that fully.

I'm not homosexual so I don't have to worry about that kind of stuff I'm just thinking what they go through on a daily basis explaining they're gay. It's not that much of a welcoming world to homosexuals.

[sarahaziz 0]

It's making sex the basis of your whole life! Pure selfishness!!

Good point. But apparently that is now considered being civilized.

and how is heterosexuality not?

in an accepting society, homosexuality doesn't mean you have to give up anything. all of my gay friends who are my age want exactly the same things i do in life, and fully expect to get them. only HOMOPHOBIA makes problems.

and everyone i know who was raised by gay parents turned out perfectly fine.

Your response seems odd to me...like someone said earlier it's natural to be heterosexual because we can easily produce other human beings vs the modern way of "having kids" by adopting. Being heterosexual is a normal lifestyle and it's always been until openly being gay was accepted socially. Being homosexual you are willing to give up everything for someone of the same sex just so you can have SEX with that person and if you don't have sex with that person you're not considered GAY bec obviously you'll have sexual intercourse with who you are attracted to.

there are gay virgins. where are you getting this "giving up everything" business? a gay person living a heteronormative lifestyle while remaining in the closet gives up so much more: their chance at personal happiness.

lol i wasn't talking about virginity - think about it - how the majority of people who are opposed to homosexuality view homosexuals. You're opening yourself to more prejudice against you, people fearing to catch STD/AIDS from you, not wanting to associate with you, etc..

I don't hate homosexuals I just want to state that. I don't follow their beliefs but I've always met the nicest, warmest people to be homosexual (men - I'm scared of lesbians I had a lesbian teacher who looked like a man try to talk to me and I'm scarred for life!!). They shouldn't be ridiculed or killed, just keep the parades out and don't ask for attention because it's most likely to be negative and may lead to violence.

The whole heterosexuality comment isn't making sense to me lol

[eekee 182]

It's making sex the basis of your whole life! Pure selfishness!!

Good point. But apparently that is now considered being civilized.

and how is heterosexuality not?

in an accepting society, homosexuality doesn't mean you have to give up anything. all of my gay friends who are my age want exactly the same things i do in life, and fully expect to get them. only HOMOPHOBIA makes problems.

and everyone i know who was raised by gay parents turned out perfectly fine.

Your response seems odd to me...like someone said earlier it's natural to be heterosexual because we can easily produce other human beings vs the modern way of "having kids" by adopting. Being heterosexual is a normal lifestyle and it's always been until openly being gay was accepted socially. Being homosexual you are willing to give up everything for someone of the same sex just so you can have SEX with that person and if you don't have sex with that person you're not considered GAY bec obviously you'll have sexual intercourse with who you are attracted to.

there are gay virgins. where are you getting this "giving up everything" business? a gay person living a heteronormative lifestyle while remaining in the closet gives up so much more: their chance at personal happiness.

lol i wasn't talking about virginity - think about it - how the majority of people who are opposed to homosexuality view homosexuals. You're opening yourself to more prejudice against you, people fearing to catch STD/AIDS from you, not wanting to associate with you, etc..

I don't hate homosexuals I just want to state that. I don't follow their beliefs but I've always met the nicest, warmest people to be homosexual (men - I'm scared of lesbians I had a lesbian teacher who looked like a man try to talk to me and I'm scarred for life!!). They shouldn't be ridiculed or killed, just keep the parades out and don't ask for attention because it's most likely to be negative and may lead to violence.

The whole heterosexuality comment isn't making sense to me lol

i didn't see boo-yah's comment. i was replying to the bit about basing one's life on sex.