Birmingham (Alabama) mayor denies gay parade permit

[sarahaziz 0]

So where is your empirical evidence of God? The whole thing is a contradiction; God creates these beings, puts them on this Planet and then lets them have at it. Let the games begin is that it, God knows the past, present and future, or as they tell me, than why let billions of his own creation suffer, through wars, poverty, disease, is this an experience? If you do the wrong thing, this loving being will send you to eternal hell where you will suffer for ever, BUT HE LOVES YOU. Ok makes perfect sense.

how the hell are you married to an arab and a MUSLIM at that?!? they may not all be religious but they keep strong faith to divorce much more kill a woman who says God isn't real

Pretty shocked!

[sarahaziz 0]

Homosexuality!?! It's making sex the basis of your whole life! Pure selfishness!!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I always find the comparison of homosexuality to pedophilia and beastiality a rather phoney argument. Society isn't static - never was, nor does it operate by cold logic.

Like it or not there is broad acceptance of homosexuality in our society - we wouldn't be having the debates over gay marriage if that weren't the case. Indeed - we'd surely be operating on a level with Iran or Saudi Arabia - not only denying that homosexuality exists but that it should be punished harshly in the courts.

Meanwhile, noone is demanding equality and legitimacy for pedophilia and beastiality (never mind the obvious legal/criminal barriers in addition to the moral/religious ones). It seems the line between what is acceptable and what isn't is already well established.

Edited May 26, 2008 by Number 6

[Heracles 417]

Hate breeds more hate, you are born gay, period. You don't become gay, we should love everyone, and being gay has nothing to do with Pedophilia, that comes mainly from hetros. Loathing gay people is a little scary, don't you think? If you believe in God, than let him be the judge of who is right and who is wrong, I think he can handle that, don't ya? Let me ask you this, if this, if there was a gay person dying would you help that person, or walk away and let them die? I am just curious because loathing is a strong word, not that you can’t do that, cause we are free to do what we all want, it just makes me think, how strong of loathing is it for a gay person.

Personally I don't have a problem with people being gay or whatever fad comes in for 2008. I do have an issue when it is forced down my throat and I simply have to take it and eat it. I never liked it as a kid. I am sure as hell not going to like that as an adult.

Marriage, for example, is between a man and a woman. And has been so for 20,000 yeas now. If gay people were destined to be married then they would be able to naturally recreate. Now I am not saying they should not be recognized as a couple by the country but the action of marriage should be reserved for a man and woman. Start a new term. Call it Biarriage etc. I don't have any problem with that. Just do not go treading on other culture's traditions and beliefs..

Edited May 26, 2008 by Boo-Yah!

[Heracles 417]

It's making sex the basis of your whole life! Pure selfishness!!

Good point. But apparently that is now considered being civilized.

[eekee 182]

It's making sex the basis of your whole life! Pure selfishness!!

Good point. But apparently that is now considered being civilized.

and how is heterosexuality not?

in an accepting society, homosexuality doesn't mean you have to give up anything. all of my gay friends who are my age want exactly the same things i do in life, and fully expect to get them. only HOMOPHOBIA makes problems.

and everyone i know who was raised by gay parents turned out perfectly fine.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Hate breeds more hate, you are born gay, period. You don't become gay, we should love everyone, and being gay has nothing to do with Pedophilia, that comes mainly from hetros. Loathing gay people is a little scary, don't you think? If you believe in God, than let him be the judge of who is right and who is wrong, I think he can handle that, don't ya? Let me ask you this, if this, if there was a gay person dying would you help that person, or walk away and let them die? I am just curious because loathing is a strong word, not that you can’t do that, cause we are free to do what we all want, it just makes me think, how strong of loathing is it for a gay person.

Personally I don't have a problem with people being gay or whatever fad comes in for 2008. I do have an issue when it is forced down my throat and I simply have to take it and eat it. I never liked it as a kid. I am sure as hell not going to like that as an adult.

Marriage, for example, is between a man and a woman. And has been so for 20,000 yeas now. If gay people were destined to be married then they would be able to naturally recreate. Now I am not saying they should not be recognized as a couple by the country but the action of marriage should be reserved for a man and woman. Start a new term. Call it Biarriage etc. I don't have any problem with that. Just do not go treading on other culture's traditions and beliefs..

Isn't that kind of pointless though? We already have these terms for non-religious marriages: Civil ceremonies / civil partnerships etc.

The problem is that there are heterosexual couples who get married in civil, non-religious ceremonies - yet for all intents and purposes this is deemed to be "marriage" in exactly the same way as a couple married in a church or other religious institution (not least the legal benefits and the recognition that comes with it).

The question I guess is whether marriage is a wholly religious institution for the Church to claim ownership of it in those terms. I'd say it isn't - and if the only difference is in the term used to describe it - what's the point? It IS marriage, for all intents and purposes.

Edited May 26, 2008 by Number 6

[Ban Hammer 13,355]

Personally I don't have a problem with people being gay or whatever fad comes in for 2008. I do have an issue when it is forced down my throat and I simply have to take it and eat it. I never liked it as a kid. I am sure as hell not going to like that as an adult.

rather bad choice of words considering the topic, eh?

all of my gay friends who are my age want exactly the same things i do in life,

[Nagishkaw 510]

:o

[Peikko 1,575]

reading this thread is like banging my head against the wall repeatedly. Homophobia is something I seriously cannot even comprehend. The only societal problems caused by homosexuality are the problems that arise from homophobia.

Homophobia is awful. I do think the OTT parades with nudity and inappropriate content are crossing the line, but at the same time, I feel that they gay community wouldn't be so IN YER FACE HETEROS! if they had equal rights.....

Well, blind faith is a pretty lousy credo - in no other part of life would blind faith serve well and ensure one's safe passage through life. Still, don't let a little thing like that bother you when it comes to deciding what ethical values to adopt, just rely on a belief in the sanctity of laws handed down by generations of humans which perfectly relate the wishes of god. When challenged as to the logic of, for example, shunning those who practice homosexual sex, simply state that human's aren't capable of understanding god's more perfect logic.

Even better, you don't have to take any "personal responsiblity" for your actions (interesting hmmm?) for the illogical and inconsistant prejudices, all you have to do is say "it's not what I think, it's what I am told I must do by god". And, should you break god's laws, who do you blame? Yourself? No, just blame the temptation of the devil. How convenient?

Blind faith dealing with love? I don't think that would be a wise idea. Of course one does need faith, but it is based on evidence of characteristic behaviour.

Now, why is it that there must be TWO camps? Either religious and hate gays or not religious and open minded? I don't get it. I am a practicing Catholic, who does believe in God and Jesus and yes, I believe that homosexuality is against my faith. But I have been raised (in my faith) to hate the SIN not the SINNER and to also subscribe to the Seven Themes of Catholic Social Teaching, two of which are: Life and Dignity of the Human Person and Solidarity. My faith does not preclude me from being a person who believes in social justice.

So please don't assume that all "religious" people are ignorant or unable to believe in the rights of others. It's insulting and hurts your cause.

I have never stated the two concepts are necessarily mutually exclusiver. However a persson who believes that homosexuality is a sin is going to have a problem accepting a sinful behaviour as a normal and reasonable behaviour and I personally think that acceptance of the behaviour as normal and reasonable is necessary in order to be able to allow for the acceptance of gay relationships and the contractual benefits and obligations that gay people would like society to recognise.

How does holding anti-homosexual views impact others? Well, let's see. If these persons kept their ideas to themselves and didn't try to influence the lives of others, they can of course believe exactly what they choose. However, if their ideas do impact on greater society then clearly it is not only right, but a human duty to intervene to show them the folly of their belief.

Couldn't the same also be said by the "other side" and with equal credibility? No. My absense of intollerance can only affect someone's sensibilities. Someone who believes that homosexuality is a sin can be offended that I don't find homosexuality depraved and immoral but that offence can't affect their life in any concrete way. The intollerance of those who feel homosexuality is a sin actually affects thousands of people every day because they are not able to conduct their relationships in an open, honest and contractual way.

Holding Pro-Homosexual views but keeping them yourself and not trying to influence the lives of others is fine. However, if your ideas do impact society and - in their opinion - compromise society and it's basic tenets, don't they have not only a right, but a human duty to show you the folly of your belief? I am not 'pro' homoesexual, I accept it as a normal behaviour. As there is no rational basis to put forward the idea that homosexuality and the acceptance of homosexuality as a normal behaviour has an adverse impact on soceity there is no 'folly' to be exposed. The acceptance of homosexuality as just one of the ways humans can express love for one another can not hurt anyone and it doesn't supress anyone or stop anyone from being able to live their lives to their fullest potential.

Nowhere is it written that your POV is the correct or true one. You believe it to be true, just as VP believes her's to be true. It's just like religion...no one *KNOWS* for a fact what is true; there is only belief. I know lots of 'facts' that are true. I know that society doesn't collapse when homosexuals are given full access to the same contractual basis for relationships that hetrosexuals enjoy. I know that the suppresion of homosexuals is inhuman. I know that it is cruel and unecessary to label people as sinners just because they don't conform to a specific ideal of what is considered a 'normal' sexual relationship.

What I don't know with 100% certainty is if there is or isn't a god. However, there is an awful lot of evidence to show that the universe can function in a way that can be scientifically explained without the necessity for the existance of god to 'fill in the blanks' and there is not one iota of tangible evidence to show that god does exist.

Edited May 27, 2008 by Purple_Hibiscus

[eekee 182]

all of my gay friends who are my age want exactly the same things i do in life,

what? a family, a fulfilling career... pretty basic.

Edited May 27, 2008 by eekee

[SpiritAlight 1]

In my experience, the people who speak loudest about homosexuality are the ones that are uncertain of their orientation.

Or else why all the fear?

Hmmmm?

It's not fear to believe it's a SIN and immoral. I don't "fear" homosexuality, I loathe it, there is a difference.

Fear and hatred are the same thing.

There are two ways to approach or look at things:

from love

or

from fear

period.

Who are you to think you know what is "right" or "moral"?

Hmmmm?

THAT *points up* is total bullsh!t. I can hate something without fearing it. I hate GM cars. I don't fear them. I just f##king hate them. I hate liver. I don't fear it; I find it disgusting. This whole "fear" bullsh!t has been used by people for far too long as a way of neutering those with an oppossing POV. I can dislike, hate, be disgusted by, or just not give a sh!t about something without fearing it.

Why would you waste your precious energy hating anything?

Hate, indeed, is a LOT of energy directed at something.

To feel indifferent, or to not care for a certain kind of car or liver is one thing, to hate them is another.

How can one hate an inanimate object?

Hmmmm?

There is a fine line between love and hate.

Both are about extreme passion.

If you look at your personal relationship history, you may see what I mean.

It is "easy" to flit between one strong feeling and another.

It happens all the time.

Ha!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

You need only to read Douglas Adams to get the idea that definitive empirical proof of God's existence denies faith.

If a person sincerely believes in the/a God, then surely proving it to other people isn't necessary. I find that difficult to understand - especially when that "irrefutable evidence" is dressed up in scientific trappings like Intelligent Design, the alleged existence of mathematical codes in the Bible and Pseudo-scientific Creationism. None of that ####### amounts to "proof" that God exists. What it is, quite simply, is an attempt to force rather extreme ideas into mainstream dialogs by dressing them up in the language of those dialogs.

[SpiritAlight 1]

Who are you to think you know what is "right" or "moral"?

Hmmmm?

Someone who can read one of the books God sent to tell us what's right and moral.

(there was more to my above post in case anyone is interested)

Really...any good book would say to you that there is only love, and to accept people as they are.

Love... not hate, not kill.

You, carrying the book, have no power, as you are merely a human being.

You, living the ideals of love, based in those types of books, would spread joy all around affecting many positively.

Do you know what your purpose is?

Your life's purpose?

We are all connected to the divine being making each of us a divine being.

Our differences in the time we walk in these shells of bodies on this earth and what we do with that time is up to each of us.

Do you want to be known for hatred, for fear?

It is the fear of the differences that create the hatred.

Choices, my friend, choices.

(Corny, I know.)

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Who are you to think you know what is "right" or "moral"?

Hmmmm?

Someone who can read one of the books God sent to tell us what's right and moral.

Mein Kampf

Hey - if one sexual preference can be used interchangeably with all others, then the same logic should apply to books.