Birmingham (Alabama) mayor denies gay parade permit

[chri'stina 190]

*sigh*

It's ####### how people think they are so above others and can insult those who have religious beliefs. Pretty sad. That's all I have to say.

[PlatyPius 5]

While my feelings about organised religion are pretty well known on VJ, I have to agree that the religion-slamming is a little OTT in this thread.

VP, for example. We all know where she stands on the issue, and she really IS allowed to have that viewpoint. It doesn't hurt any of us for her to believe that way. I don't understand the need to *force* people to be "open-minded". To me, doing so is the same as Christian missionaries going to some little-known land and "forcing" the natives to convert to Christianity by withholding water/food/medicine or otherwise offering benefits to those who adopt the "way of Jesus". Compassionate, thinking people - whether religious or not - would frown upon such tactics. So why is it okay to attempt to badger and belittle people into accepting things they aren't comfortable with?

As I've stated before, I personally think homosexuality is rather repugnant and I don't want to see overt PDAs (gay or straight) while in public. However, I also believe that gay marriage should be allowed, and have no problem with gay people themselves. That's my comfort zone. If someone tries to force me to accept public tonsil-diving as "normal" and that I'm repressed, prejudiced, or whatever because I don't want to see that, then I'm gonna get defensive. VP's comfort zone doesn't accept homosexuality at all. How, really, is that different? It's her opinion, her beliefs, and her choice. I don't agree with her, but she has every right to state her opinion. I also think she should be allowed to state her opinion without ridicule, baiting, or an assault on her beliefs.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

*puts away his pitchfork*

[Ban Hammer 13,353]

*sigh*

It's ####### how people think they are so above others and can insult those who have religious beliefs. Pretty sad. That's all I have to say.

ita

*puts away his pitchfork*

last time people got out pitchforks it was to chase the monster........and looking at that avatar of yours, you might become a victim.

[Alhamdulillah 0]

In my experience, the people who speak loudest about homosexuality are the ones that are uncertain of their orientation.

Or else why all the fear?

Hmmmm?

It's not fear to believe it's a SIN and immoral. I don't "fear" homosexuality, I loathe it, there is a difference.

[Peikko 1,575]

me too I wonder what the God people would say if something alien ever appeared on this earth

They would certainly question the logic of one group promoting live for the moment, use drugs and basically behave like animals compared with the other who actually promotes humans look out for one another and act civilized, aka religion.

Obviously? How do you work that out?

I have dealt with enough of them so I can spot them out a mile away.

People without religion are perfectly capable of creating a set of ethical rules that don't promote live for the moment, use drugs or basically behave 'like animals' in the sense that animals don't appear to be able to always make the connection between actions and consequences...although even that isn't set in stone.

This is one of the most flawed ideas that some religious folk promote though, that without religion, humans become depraved, incapable of making choices that aren't dominated by the 'self'. fortunately that view is totally false. The fact is, that most humans do live by rules - and the rules that are developed via the action of logic are really easy to not only keep to and teach, they are also incredibly humanitarian and rely on the age old wisdom that one's actions should be limited by how the consequences of these actions impact on others (including animals and the planet for many).

If anyone thinks that the promotion of rational thought is somehow an unfair attack on a person, well, let's not bother with discussion at all.

[Peikko 1,575]

How does holding anti-homosexual views impact others? Well, let's see. If these persons kept their ideas to themselves and didn't try to influence the lives of others, they can of course believe exactly what they choose. However, if their ideas do impact on greater society then clearly it is not only right, but a human duty to intervene to show them the folly of their belief.

[SpiritAlight 1]

In my experience, the people who speak loudest about homosexuality are the ones that are uncertain of their orientation.

Or else why all the fear?

Hmmmm?

It's not fear to believe it's a SIN and immoral. I don't "fear" homosexuality, I loathe it, there is a difference.

Fear and hatred are the same thing.

There are two ways to approach or look at things:

from love

or

from fear

period.

Who are you to think you know what is "right" or "moral"?

Hmmmm?

[Alhamdulillah 0]

Who are you to think you know what is "right" or "moral"?

Hmmmm?

Someone who can read one of the books God sent to tell us what's right and moral.

[jundp 191]

reading this thread is like banging my head against the wall repeatedly. Homophobia is something I seriously cannot even comprehend. The only societal problems caused by homosexuality are the problems that arise from homophobia.

Homophobia is awful. I do think the OTT parades with nudity and inappropriate content are crossing the line, but at the same time, I feel that they gay community wouldn't be so IN YER FACE HETEROS! if they had equal rights.....

Well, blind faith is a pretty lousy credo - in no other part of life would blind faith serve well and ensure one's safe passage through life. Still, don't let a little thing like that bother you when it comes to deciding what ethical values to adopt, just rely on a belief in the sanctity of laws handed down by generations of humans which perfectly relate the wishes of god. When challenged as to the logic of, for example, shunning those who practice homosexual sex, simply state that human's aren't capable of understanding god's more perfect logic.

Even better, you don't have to take any "personal responsiblity" for your actions (interesting hmmm?) for the illogical and inconsistant prejudices, all you have to do is say "it's not what I think, it's what I am told I must do by god". And, should you break god's laws, who do you blame? Yourself? No, just blame the temptation of the devil. How convenient?

I think love requires a certain amount of blind faith. That certainly isn't all that's required, but it's a factor.

Now, why is it that there must be TWO camps? Either religious and hate gays or not religious and open minded? I don't get it. I am a practicing Catholic, who does believe in God and Jesus and yes, I believe that homosexuality is against my faith. But I have been raised (in my faith) to hate the SIN not the SINNER and to also subscribe to the Seven Themes of Catholic Social Teaching, two of which are: Life and Dignity of the Human Person and Solidarity. My faith does not preclude me from being a person who believes in social justice.

So please don't assume that all "religious" people are ignorant or unable to believe in the rights of others. It's insulting and hurts your cause.

[PlatyPius 5]

How does holding anti-homosexual views impact others? Well, let's see. If these persons kept their ideas to themselves and didn't try to influence the lives of others, they can of course believe exactly what they choose. However, if their ideas do impact on greater society then clearly it is not only right, but a human duty to intervene to show them the folly of their belief.

Couldn't the same also be said by the "other side" and with equal credibility?

Holding Pro-Homosexual views but keeping them yourself and not trying to influence the lives of others is fine. However, if your ideas do impact society and - in their opinion - compromise society and it's basic tenets, don't they have not only a right, but a human duty to show you the folly of your belief?

Nowhere is it written that your POV is the correct or true one. You believe it to be true, just as VP believes her's to be true. It's just like religion...no one *KNOWS* for a fact what is true; there is only belief.

[PlatyPius 5]

In my experience, the people who speak loudest about homosexuality are the ones that are uncertain of their orientation.

Or else why all the fear?

Hmmmm?

It's not fear to believe it's a SIN and immoral. I don't "fear" homosexuality, I loathe it, there is a difference.

Fear and hatred are the same thing.

There are two ways to approach or look at things:

from love

or

from fear

period.

Who are you to think you know what is "right" or "moral"?

Hmmmm?

THAT *points up* is total bullsh!t. I can hate something without fearing it. I hate GM cars. I don't fear them. I just f##king hate them. I hate liver. I don't fear it; I find it disgusting. This whole "fear" bullsh!t has been used by people for far too long as a way of neutering those with an oppossing POV. I can dislike, hate, be disgusted by, or just not give a sh!t about something without fearing it.

[SaadBell 0]

Well, quite. Homosexuals are predators and prey and mentally unbalanced? Which scientific study led you to this brilliant conclusion then? Your opinions are based on superstition and fear not logic and rationality. Of course, it's a well known fact that exposure to homosexuals leads to copy cat behaviour, after all, we all know homosexuality isn't genetic but a learned behaviour. It's easy to learn mental instability.

The Reality of Pedophilia

We get often caught in a semantic conflict when discussing the sexual abuse and molestation of children. Depending upon our exact definitions of terms, it can be shown: that homosexual abuse of children is widespread, and that abuse of boys by gays is rare, and that the abuse of girls by lesbians is rarer still. If we define the phrase "homosexual abuse of children" in the first statement to mean adults molesting and abusing children of the same sex, then this statement is true: Child sexual abuse is widespread. It is perpetrated by males in the vast majority of cases. And a substantial minority of their victims are boys. Data relating to men abusing boys is hungrily pounced upon by opponents to equal rights for homosexuals, who often use it against both gays and lesbians in civil rights battles. But it is not homosexuals, as the term is generally understood, who are responsible for the abuse. It is rather pedophiles who are attracted to children, and have decided to abuse them. However, if we define the phrase "abuse of boys by gays", and "abuse of girls by lesbians" to mean adult persons with a homosexual orientation abusing children of the same sex, then these statements 2 and 3 above are also true. Gays and lesbians rarely abuse children. The fact behind these conflicting statements is that most pedophiles are not homosexuals! Or to put it another way, most homosexual molestation is not done by homosexuals.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Birmingham Mayor Larry Langford won't sign a proclamation for an annual gay pride celebration or allow banners on city property, and said he will not grant the sponsoring group a parade permit.

Langford said he turned down the requests this week from Central Alabama Pride because it is inappropriate for government to endorse a lifestyle. Pride Week is next month and often includes a parade on Southside and other events.

"My policy is don't ask because it's not my business, and don't put me in the position to make it my business," Langford said Friday. "I don't condone it, but I also am not sitting in judgment on anyone."

...

"I don't think I'm intolerant, I just don't condone the lifestyle," he said. "Your personal lifestyle should be nobody's issue but yours. It's not a civil rights issue, it's a personal choice issue."

http://www.al.com/news/birminghamnews/inde....xml&coll=2

That's pretty contradictory isn't it?

Don't ask, don't tell - cause he won't judge.

But you can't ask for a parade permit without informing the city as to your intent.

And his personal views on the subject should surely be secondary to the wishes of his constituents - especially in regard to the practice of constitutionally protected freedoms.

He's taking his personal opinion and effectively making it city policy. Pretty thin ground for his argument if you ask me.

[SaadBell 0]

Hate breeds more hate, you are born gay, period. You don't become gay, we should love everyone, and being gay has nothing to do with Pedophilia, that comes mainly from hetros. Loathing gay people is a little scary, don't you think? If you believe in God, than let him be the judge of who is right and who is wrong, I think he can handle that, don't ya? Let me ask you this, if this, if there was a gay person dying would you help that person, or walk away and let them die? I am just curious because loathing is a strong word, not that you can’t do that, cause we are free to do what we all want, it just makes me think, how strong of loathing is it for a gay person.