How much have the Democrats cost you at the pump?

[mawilson 2,133]

Overconsumption in relation to what the planet has to offer. Its common sense that there is one concept called necessity and we on average are well above that as a population.

Oooh, you're on a slippery slope there, mate.

Why don't we start by taking out all the rich people here in the US who consume well

above the average? All those fancy cars, private jets, yachts and helicopters?

Surely unnecessary.

[HAL 9000 96]

That's just bizarre Gary. You would rather obsess over a metaphor than consider the implications of the headlong consumption of non renewables.

Words mean things PH. His choice was interesting. I think it says something of his opinion of our country.

And I asked you, what do those words mean, genius?

Other than the obvious, of course... we are overconsuming our lot, and its having bad side effects at all levels.

You can say we are over consuming if you like. That may be a valid point. But to call us leaches does say something about your opinion of us.

Simple math, Gary-

5% of any population consuming 25% of its habitat's resources means that 95% of the rest of the population will have to contend with 75% of the resources. That makes the 5% pretty much a leech population. If that offends you then perhaps you should be doing something to act more consonant with what you need to consume instead of overdoing it.

And of course, it is a bad metaphor. A leech can only suck until its saturated. Far less than the 5% to 25% ratio.

Tell you what Mav, set an example for all of us. Give up your car, central heat, air conditioning, move into a studio apartment, give up your TV, give up your computer, grow all your own food and then come back and pass judgment on the rest of us.

*sound of brain hitting wall*

And that would solve?

Or, we could all act more accordingly to bringing down the ratio to more "need-based" levels.

But since you seem to want to overreach, I'll remind you that there are choices, and since I don't know what yours are to this point beyond making completely ludicrous and inaccurate comments and conclusions, that I myself walk/bike/bus to work, drive a car that gives me 41/38 mpg, seal my windows in the winter (no, we did not need to use HVAC), open the windows and use ceiling fans in the summer, living in a size-appropriate apartment, use an energy-efficient TV with a high Star rating, and only when I actually want to watch TV, buy locally grown produce at Stanley's (and I would grow some things if I had the space outside), and generally act like I give a damn about fools that refuse to act in a matter consonant with the amount of consumption that is required to be happy. Not inflatedly happy... just happy.

[HAL 9000 96]

5% of any population consuming 25% of its habitat's resources means that 95% of the rest of the population will have to contend with 75% of the resources. That makes the 5% pretty much a leech population. If that offends you then perhaps you should be doing something to act more consonant with what you need to consume instead of overdoing it.

And of course, it is a bad metaphor. A leech can only suck until its saturated. Far less than the 5% to 25% ratio.

Doesn't mean sh!t, mavi.

We "overconsume" because we "overearn" - the average per capita income in the third world

is less than $1000 dollars a year, which is about what the average American makes per week.

And yet some folks have heart attachs when Indians and Chinese nationals start to make much more nowadays. Its a double standard when our pocketbook gets affected. Of course it doesn't mean anything to you, since you are only focusing on the income aspect of things and I am focusing on the general scheme of everything else- hint: in how it plays to the global picture.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

5% of any population consuming 25% of its habitat's resources means that 95% of the rest of the population will have to contend with 75% of the resources. That makes the 5% pretty much a leech population. If that offends you then perhaps you should be doing something to act more consonant with what you need to consume instead of overdoing it.

And of course, it is a bad metaphor. A leech can only suck until its saturated. Far less than the 5% to 25% ratio.

Doesn't mean sh!t, mavi.

We "overconsume" because we "overearn" - the average per capita income in the third world

is less than $1000 dollars a year, which is about what the average American makes per week.

Germany has a high standard of living like ours, and they do it with half our oil consumption.

[mawilson 2,133]

generally act like I give a damn about fools that refuse to act in a matter consonant with the amount of consumption that is required to be happy. Not inflatedly happy... just happy.

Well excuse me, who died and made you the Chairman of the Politburo?

Who do you think you are to tell people how much stuff they need to be happy?

[Peikko 1,575]

Overconsumption in relation to what the planet has to offer. Its common sense that there is one concept called necessity and we on average are well above that as a population.

Oooh, you're on a slippery slope there, mate.

Why don't we start by taking out all the rich people here in the US who consume well

above the average? All those fancy cars, private jets, yachts and helicopters?

Surely unnecessary.

That's one of the biggest problems - it isn't possible to legislate or require that people consume less in a democratic society, I don't even think it's a good idea either. However, without a reduction in consumption the resources will run low and only those with big fat wallets and military protection will have access to the resources until they effectively run out.

If the world population isn't controlled by choice, it sure as hell will be controlled by necessity at some point. In some countries that is happening already because the populations do not have access to the necessary resources to even feed themselves, much less consume other types of goods.

[mawilson 2,133]

Germany has a high standard of living like ours, and they do it with half our oil consumption.

Smaller country, Steven - people don't have long commutes.

[HAL 9000 96]

Overconsumption in relation to what the planet has to offer. Its common sense that there is one concept called necessity and we on average are well above that as a population.

Oooh, you're on a slippery slope there, mate.

Why don't we start by taking out all the rich people here in the US who consume well

above the average? All those fancy cars, private jets, yachts and helicopters?

Surely unnecessary.

Mathematically, sure it makes sense. Will it or should it happen? No.

And, iyou should mention you are looking at less than 1% of 5% of the planetary population. Its the drive to eat a buffet just because we can, to drive the SUV at less efficiency than the more economical car, glutton out on construction materials while already having one home, one car, one of anything... that is part of an American dream gone berzerk, among a US population that equates overconsumption with satisfying happiness.

If you are willing to sustain the current rate of overconsumption by our population then you shouldn't have any problem in helping the other 95% raise themselves to our rate. Of course that would be fair, but will that happen? Of course not. We'd rather keep things the way they are.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Germany has a high standard of living like ours, and they do it with half our oil consumption.

Smaller country, Steven - people don't have long commutes.

There's the solution. Let's just break the U.S. up into sovereign states.

[HAL 9000 96]

generally act like I give a damn about fools that refuse to act in a matter consonant with the amount of consumption that is required to be happy. Not inflatedly happy... just happy.

Well excuse me, who died and made you the Chairman of the Politburo?

Who do you think you are to tell people how much stuff they need to be happy?

Just try Marc. I judge having been on both sides of the debate- overconsumer and moderated consumer.

IF you take offense its your problem to not want to contribute to a better world. So be it. Your economics will dictate otherwise at some point.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

generally act like I give a damn about fools that refuse to act in a matter consonant with the amount of consumption that is required to be happy. Not inflatedly happy... just happy.

Well excuse me, who died and made you the Chairman of the Politburo?

Who do you think you are to tell people how much stuff they need to be happy?

"I am GOD" The all knowing!

Edited May 23, 2008 by CarolsMarc

[HAL 9000 96]

generally act like I give a damn about fools that refuse to act in a matter consonant with the amount of consumption that is required to be happy. Not inflatedly happy... just happy.

Well excuse me, who died and made you the Chairman of the Politburo?

Who do you think you are to tell people how much stuff they need to be happy?

"I am GOD" The all knowing!

If only we could tap into nonsense for energy, Marc, you could supply the energy needs of a country the size of Switzerland all by yourself.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

generally act like I give a damn about fools that refuse to act in a matter consonant with the amount of consumption that is required to be happy. Not inflatedly happy... just happy.

Well excuse me, who died and made you the Chairman of the Politburo?

Who do you think you are to tell people how much stuff they need to be happy?

"I am GOD" The all knowing!

If only we could tap into nonsense for energy, Marc, you could supply the energy needs of a country the size of Switzerland all by yourself.

Im a hoarder!

[HAL 9000 96]

generally act like I give a damn about fools that refuse to act in a matter consonant with the amount of consumption that is required to be happy. Not inflatedly happy... just happy.

Well excuse me, who died and made you the Chairman of the Politburo?

Who do you think you are to tell people how much stuff they need to be happy?

"I am GOD" The all knowing!

If only we could tap into nonsense for energy, Marc, you could supply the energy needs of a country the size of Switzerland all by yourself.

Im a hoarder!

Make that the size of China then.

[mawilson 2,133]

If you are willing to sustain the current rate of overconsumption by our population then you shouldn't have any problem in helping the other 95% raise themselves to our rate.

I'm not too worried about that -- the other 95% will never catch up with us. Things will keep

getting more and more expensive, but we are better equipped financially to bear the grunt

of economic pressures caused by rising population and dwindling natural resources.