Muslims

[~Jackie~ 30]

No Tasha, I did not keep all 5 prayers when I was new to Islam. It takes adjustment and practice and most days you will pray extra when you get home. I am very happy to read that your husband is helping

[UmmSqueakster 54]

It was never my intent to undermine your credibility, Rahma. I'm apologize that you took it that way. My life and environment is what it is, but it is not something I wish to use as a weapon. Your passion and enthusiam for the faith and your eagerness to share it is a blessing.

Thank you, I appreciate the kind sentiment.

You are also so right about Tarek Fatah. We have done battle many times and are no longer speaking, at this point.

I don't think he's speaking to anyone, lol.

However, you completely missed my points, and I may be a bit sensitive about the issue of adab because there is a tendency among students to believe that scholars are so well-mannered. I've had more than my share of their bad behavior, which may be why I'm come across so assertively in posts much of the time.

Scholars are human beings, and can fall into the same cesspits of nasty disagreement that all of us are suseptible to. However, there are some who rise above, and I'll look to those for my example of how to behave. Sh. Faraz Rabbani and Sh. Yasir Qadhi are friends. Sh. Faraz is about as traditionalist as they come, hanafi and a student of tasawwuf. Sh. Yasir is a saudi educated salafi. They spoke together at ISNA awhile back, and everyone was expecting a Friday Night smackdown kinda thing. But, they suprised everybody by holding a cordial discussion.

I appreciate my teachers, too, but I know when to disagree with them. An issue I have is the convert's ability to discern who is a good teacher who will not lead you astray and who will help you enrich your life in the faith, and what are proper sources. Where should you place your emphasis and what constitues the Middle Way? I have seen too many times students afraid to question or raise issues that could lead to conflict. Few certainly have the ability of substantive knowledge to challenge a teacher. I grew up in the faith, read fluent Arabic, have a Ph.D in Islam. For decades, I sat at the feet of venerated sheikhs, worked with ulema and jurists, and I'm still told I have a nerve to question anything from fiqh, no matter how ludicris. I can't imagine how a novice stands up to that.

So what do you suggest for a convert? What programs/teachers/books would you recommend? Because that's what this is really all about, advising the converts on this thread where they can best learn the deen. We don't all have access to scores of teachers, and endless amounts of time and resources.

Even when I converted back at the beginning of this decade, there wasn't anything aside from what the salafis had to offer. If you wanted to have anything with a solid foundation, you picked up books by Bilal Phillips, or what someone gave you for free at the masjid from Dar us Salam.

That is why I am so thrilled that Sunnipath, and even it's more salafi-esque counterparts like Al Maghrib are available now. They're teachers with credentials, offering courses specifically for the newbie and the western muslim. Now a convert isn't just handed a stack of books and sent to a half @ss lecture or 2 at the mosque with an imam who was imported from the home country and doesn't speak english very well. No, now they have teachers are known, who are knowledgable, and who can speak understand their audience. These institutions seek to be comprehensive, teaching Islam, Iman and Ihsan, where as before there was a heavy emphasis on haram haram haram and not much else.

If you have an alternative to these institutions, I'd be interested to hear them.

And, numbers show that they don't; the residivism rate for converts is rather high. That, I have deep concerns about. The ability to have a personal relationship with Allah is being slowly overridden with an over abundance of opinions, making Islam appear to be more monolitic in some ways, and more ambiguous in other ways.

There are two stereotypical camps converts fall into

Convertitis Type I

Convertitis Type II

The goal of those who call to Islam and do convert education should be to help the newbies navigate these two extremes and find the middle path. From my own, personal experience, I believe the best way to do this is through a more traditional approach to the religion, as opposed to what the first and second salafi dawah has done in the US in the last 3 decades.

[UmmSqueakster 54]

When I want to learn a new surah, I find a decent, slow recitation and stick it on my ipod. Then I'll listen to it over and over and over again, sometimes reading along, until it's stuck in my head and I have it memorized. Every so often, I'll stop and check with the husband re: tajweed and pronunciation, to make sure that I'm not memorizing it incorrectly.

For the newbies, tajweed is how we recite the Qur'an, based on a set of rules. The Prophet (saws) recited the Qur'an in several different styles, and each of these styles have been preserved and codified. So, when you learn to recite the Qur'an with tajweed, you're reciting it as the Prophet (saws) recited it.

[Tunisia216 2]

I know that it wasn't meant to be funny ( it really is true ) but these made me giggle , especially the first one. I have seen that so many times!!! Again a million thank you's for all of the wonderful information that you post and share!!!!!!

There are two stereotypical camps converts fall into

Convertitis Type I

Convertitis Type II

The goal of those who call to Islam and do convert education should be to help the newbies navigate these two extremes and find the middle path. From my own, personal experience, I believe the best way to do this is through a more traditional approach to the religion, as opposed to what the first and second salafi dawah has done in the US in the last 3 decades.

[Henia 11]

When I want to learn a new surah, I find a decent, slow recitation and stick it on my ipod. Then I'll listen to it over and over and over again, sometimes reading along, until it's stuck in my head and I have it memorized. Every so often, I'll stop and check with the husband re: tajweed and pronunciation, to make sure that I'm not memorizing it incorrectly.

For me, what I found worked was writing down the surat on paper ... in language I could understand/phonetically. Then reviewing until I could recite it without looking at the paper.

But I think remembering the surats really depends on which learning style you have: visual, auditory ore kinesthetic.

Edited August 26, 2008 by Henia

[polarbear 0]

When I first started to learn to pray, I had al-fatiha and the rest of the prayer parts written down and would place it in front of me in case I got lost - at the VERY begining, I had to litteraly read it from the paper.

There is a CD we give to all the new converts at my masjid: Pray as you have seen me Pray

I think it's kinda expensive since it's a DVD, probably about $20. I gave away my copy a long time ago, but I might be able to get ahold of another one if someone wants me to send it to them.

You can always find videos on utube I'm sure.

[amal 4]

When I started praying, I had a good friend help me transliterate a few surahs and explain in detail the movements for praying. I wrote everything down as I heard it and then re-read it to him to make sure I wrote down properly enough that I'd say the words right.

THEN

I literally read thru each prayer for weeks. Then I saved it to my computer and would pull it up when I prayed coz It made it easier to view.

I'm still trying to learn the last part but working my way to it. It's definitely a slow process and I'm taking it one day at a time.

As Henia, I too find it easier to write it down and then read it aloud until I don't need the paper anymore. That's the best way for me.

[UmmSqueakster 54]

I know that it wasn't meant to be funny ( it really is true ) but these made me giggle , especially the first one. I have seen that so many times!!!

I know I smile whenever I read it

Again a million thank you's for all of the wonderful information that you post and share!!!!!!

You're very welcome. If someone else's journey can be made a bit easier through what I post, then it's all worth it

[UmmSqueakster 54]

When I converted, a sister from texas sent me a set of prayer cards I found exceptionally helpful. It has a line of arabic, then a line of english. I'd read the arabic aloud, then the english silently. After a month or 2 of this, I could put the cards down, recite my prayers in arabic AND know what I was saying.

I've recreated the cards for others to use. You can download them here, or you can pm me your address and I'll print em out and send em to ya snailmail.

[Tunisia216 2]

Wow!!!! No hiney kissing here, but just really wow girl!!! You're such a wonderful source of information and help!!! New and not so new Muslimahs( like myself) are benefiting so much here!! fi amen allah wa incha allah labes inti dimaa..... Many rewards for your great work!

When I converted, a sister from texas sent me a set of prayer cards I found exceptionally helpful. It has a line of arabic, then a line of english. I'd read the arabic aloud, then the english silently. After a month or 2 of this, I could put the cards down, recite my prayers in arabic AND know what I was saying.

I've recreated the cards for others to use. You can download them here, or you can pm me your address and I'll print em out and send em to ya snailmail.

[HLM 1]

Actually, the belief that Muslim women can marry only Muslim men is not derived from Islam, but from fiqh law based on cultural norms arising from the wars and animosity between Muslims and non-Muslims. Unfortunately, fiqh is not always Islamic; it is the fallible attempt by scholars and jurists to forge the wishes of individual societies into paradigms that make social sense, but not always spiritual sense. It is impossible to explain the reasoning behind this law without (a) insulting the competence and autonomy of all Muslimas; (B) asserting that Muslim men superior to all other human beings; © distorting Quranic law; and/or (d) subordinating women to all men. Try to do it without having to engage one of those. You can't. You also must ignore Muslim history.

During the Prophet's time, there were Muslim women who converted many years before their husbands, inculding the Prophet's own daughter, Zainab, and the parents of the ahadith transmitter Ibn Abbas. His mother was the second woman to convert to Islam after the Prophet's revelations, but his father did not convert for 20 years after his wife. Also, Aisha was engaged to a Christian man by her father, Abu Bakr, a close companion of the Prophet and the first Caliph, before that engagement was withdrawn so she could marry Muhammad. He would not have done such a thing if it was forbidden by Allah.

There is nothing in the Quran nor the Sunnah disallowing Muslim women from interfaith marriage with kitabi men. This is a perversion of the law that is being reexamoined and challenged, much along the line of manadatory headcovering, honor killings, obedience to husbands before God, slavery, polygamy for a man's pleasure, and the belief that Muslims are God's chosen people. One must be careful to understand the origins of fiqh and beliefs, and discern whether they have roots in Allah's law or in man's law. The distinction is essential for anyone that wants to remain true to the Word, for our alliegence is to Allah, not to mortal desires.

I am a born Arab Muslima was married to a Christian man for 30 years. I broke none of Allah's laws in doing so. Nor have any of my sisters who have learned that such prohibition is not of God, but from the unIslamic desire of men to rule over women. We pray for the suffering of Muslims who are lead astray by this rule. May Allah guide us all.

VW; wd u plz add the hadiths for this part becoz i dont know them. Thank you

[Nothing1234 2]

I agree with Ash! Thank you again!!

Wow!!!! No hiney kissing here, but just really wow girl!!! You're such a wonderful source of information and help!!! New and not so new Muslimahs( like myself) are benefiting so much here!! fi amen allah wa incha allah labes inti dimaa..... Many rewards for your great work!

When I converted, a sister from texas sent me a set of prayer cards I found exceptionally helpful. It has a line of arabic, then a line of english. I'd read the arabic aloud, then the english silently. After a month or 2 of this, I could put the cards down, recite my prayers in arabic AND know what I was saying.

I've recreated the cards for others to use. You can download them here, or you can pm me your address and I'll print em out and send em to ya snailmail.

[doodlebugg 10]

When I converted, a sister from texas sent me a set of prayer cards I found exceptionally helpful. It has a line of arabic, then a line of english. I'd read the arabic aloud, then the english silently. After a month or 2 of this, I could put the cards down, recite my prayers in arabic AND know what I was saying.

I've recreated the cards for others to use. You can download them here, or you can pm me your address and I'll print em out and send em to ya snailmail.

I'm all teary eyed reading this 'cause that's what you gave me so that I could learn too. I had to read them from the paper for a month I think before I could say them on my own and now I can say them in my sleep! lol.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

During the Prophet's time, there were Muslim women who converted many years before their husbands, inculding the Prophet's own daughter, Zainab, and the parents of the ahadith transmitter Ibn Abbas. His mother was the second woman to convert to Islam after the Prophet's revelations, but his father did not convert for 20 years after his wife. Also, Aisha was engaged to a Christian man by her father, Abu Bakr, a close companion of the Prophet and the first Caliph, before that engagement was withdrawn so she could marry Muhammad. He would not have done such a thing if it was forbidden by Allah.

VW; wd u plz add the hadiths for this part becoz i dont know them. Thank you

I'll be happy to help you with that, sis! Be patient with me, please, cause I don't have the sources memorized.

I haven't missed your post to me, Rahma. I'll get to them, I'm a bit pressed for time tonight.

Edited August 27, 2008 by Virtual wife

[Sofiyya 1,687]

An interesting article:

"Muslims Try to Balance Traditions, U.S. Culture on Path to Marriage"

By Michelle Boorstein ("Washington Post", May 27, 2008)

As imam of one of the Washington region's largest mosques, Mohamed Magid counsels married couples, including those with a problem he sees among Muslim Americans: husbands and wives who were virtual strangers before they wedded.

Islamic practice bans unsupervised dating, and in transient 2008 America, traditional Muslims may wind up far from families who once oversaw the connection of two single people. Many African American Muslims are converts and do not have Muslim relatives who can help with the process.

A few years ago, Magid, imam of the All Dulles Area Muslim Society in Sterling, started something new: required premarital counseling for people who marry at the mosque. His wife recently launched a singles program meant to honor modesty and cut to the chase: participants meet in groups to discuss scriptural problems, read stories, and make lists of what they think are the most important characteristics for a Muslim wife or husband in the United States.

Although premarital counseling and singles programs are common for some faith groups, they are new in U.S. mosques, placing Magid and his wife on the vanguard of a drive to update Muslim practices and institutions surrounding marriage. The movement stems from concern among many Muslim American leaders that families are not keeping up with cultural changes, leading people to divorce and marry multiple times, or become alienated either from Islam or from mainstream American life.

Key issues include what Islam says about interfaith marriage, how well Muslims can know each another before they marry, and what the modern version is of a "wali," or guardian, a figure in Islam who is supposed to help women pick the right husbands.

"Generation gaps, cultural differences when people from the United States marry someone from overseas, interfaith marriage -- the issue of marriage is one of the most important in Islam here right now," Magid said. "Anytime there is a program at the mosque about these things, it's completely packed."

A commonly discussed problem is the surplus of single Muslim women. This stems partly from Islamic practice's broader acceptance of men marrying outside the faith than women.

Daisy Khan, a New York activist who counsels couples with her husband, an imam, organized a Valentine's Day event for singles -- 15 men and 63 women attended. Although she used to feel torn about interfaith marriage, she is now concerned that women will either be left unmarried or leave their faith. She tries to connect Muslim couples but also thinks pious Muslim women should be able to marry non-Muslims who also are pious.

"It's my obligation to shift a little, to give a little because it's important for them to stay within the faith," she said. "You have to clear up the mandate of: What is God's mission? I see God's hand in this."

In a Pew Research Center poll of Muslim Americans released last year, 54 percent of women said interfaith marriage is acceptable, compared with 70 percent of men.

Marriage practices are a growing issue among Muslims in part because melding into the mainstream is increasingly their goal, experts said. This is true for many first- and second-generation Muslims and U.S.-born converts. It is a complex balance, however, testing relations between parents and children and within new couples.

Many Muslim dating and marriage traditions exist to promote sexual reserve, particularly among women, but in 2008, separation between potential mates has lost its cultural moorings.

"It creates these experiences of weirdness where you're more comfortable with [non-Muslim] John at work than Mohamed" at the mosque, said Zarinah El Amin-Naeem, 28, an anthropologist.

The Muslim Alliance in North America, a national group made up largely of prominent black Muslims, held its first national conference in the fall and named marriage reform as one of its top priorities. A concern is the rush into marriage, either to have sex or because structures that once screened potential spouses, such as close-knit, large families and cultural isolation, have diminished.

"In Islamic culture there is no dating and no kind of middle ground, so the sense is, if this person is a good person, let's get married. The impulse isn't to prolong a courting relationship. Our advocacy is it needs to be prolonged somewhat," said Ihsan Bagby, co-founder of the Muslim Alliance in North America.

Issues related to marriage play out differently across the Muslim American community. The problem of strangers marrying is more common among African American Muslims than among immigrant families because many are converts and might not have families involved in their faith lives, experts said. Tensions surrounding interfaith marriages are more common among Muslims from South Asia, who tend to be more traditional, than those from Africa or Turkey.

And, of course, many Muslims are secular or are liberal about their faith, perhaps using a Muslim dating Web site such as naseeb.com but not agonizing over premarital sex or seeking a wali. Even for non-observant Muslims, however, "when it comes to the issue of marriage, because Muslim families tend to be so involved, there is more tradition involved than in other aspects of their lives," said Dalia Mogahed, executive director of the Gallup Center for Muslim Studies.

Interfaith marriage is a huge topic with wide cultural ramifications. Because Islamic tradition, not law, holds that a Muslim man can intermarry but not a woman, a substantial gender gap in the dating pool has opened as children and grandchildren of immigrants have grown up.

The Koran says for Muslims to marry "believers," the meaning of which has long been the source of great debate but has been widely interpreted to include Christians and Jews. Although the Koran does not address the gender issue directly, tradition has held that women are more easily subjugated, and therefore a Muslim woman in an interfaith marriage could be forced by a Christian or Jew to live and raise her children outside of Islam, while a Muslim man in an interfaith relationship would be able to control the household's faith.

Abdullahi Ahmed An-Na'im, an Islamic family law expert at Emory University, argues that gender dynamics have changed in a way that makes interfaith marriage more reasonable under Islamic tradition. "In social reality today, men are not dominant in the marriage relationship. The rationale of historic rule is no longer valid," he said. "But people are not willing to accept this. This is a major source of tensions."

Qur'an Shakir, who runs national Muslim dating events and writes a column on Muslim dating, said a lot of people debate the value of a dowry today, even as a symbolic commitment, while others think that the position of wali should be updated to be more like a relationship mentor and less like a guardian, and that men should have walis, too.

"People need to be open to different interpretations of the Koran," she said.