Muslims

[MrsAmera 41]

Hmmm not arguing - since I wear hijab BUT just a thought. Cover your beauty...cover what's beautiful. Well... how far do we go with this? Toes? Fingers? No one has ever complimented me on much except for my eyes. I've had people literally stop me on the street to tell me how beautiful they are (not gloating just trying to make peace with this). Should I wear a face veil (burka style?) because they are attractive? *sigh* I dunno about this!

[amal 4]

amal, may Allah (swt) make it easy for you! It's good to ease into it slowly. I think it took me 8 months to transition from non hijabi clothes to completely covering my hair, and then even a few years after that to wearing clothes that were completely covering.

I've always worn loose fitting clothes so i got the clothes thing DOWN PAT lol just gotta get the hijab thing goin and I'll be set!

Hmmm not arguing - since I wear hijab BUT just a thought. Cover your beauty...cover what's beautiful. Well... how far do we go with this? Toes? Fingers? No one has ever complimented me on much except for my eyes. I've had people literally stop me on the street to tell me how beautiful they are (not gloating just trying to make peace with this). Should I wear a face veil (burka style?) because they are attractive? *sigh* I dunno about this!

Actually...I had customers come in so I posted what I had written before I finished it. Actually, I can say that it most certainly CAN mean niqab but there's no way in hell that I'd ever wear one. Nothing against them but I can't breathe with things over my face so it's just not an option for me. I take it to mean to cover the things of beauty that u are able to , within reason. Some ppl believe that niquab is totally within reason but I don't really feel that way. It's not reasonable to me to cover my face and not be able to breathe... jmho though

[amysaid 9]

Hmmm not arguing - since I wear hijab BUT just a thought. Cover your beauty...cover what's beautiful. Well... how far do we go with this? Toes? Fingers? No one has ever complimented me on much except for my eyes. I've had people literally stop me on the street to tell me how beautiful they are (not gloating just trying to make peace with this). Should I wear a face veil (burka style?) because they are attractive? *sigh* I dunno about this!

Actually...I had customers come in so I posted what I had written before I finished it. Actually, I can say that it most certainly CAN mean niqab but there's no way in hell that I'd ever wear one. Nothing against them but I can't breathe with things over my face so it's just not an option for me. I take it to mean to cover the things of beauty that u are able to , within reason. Some ppl believe that niquab is totally within reason but I don't really feel that way. It's not reasonable to me to cover my face and not be able to breathe... jmho though

Not to mention that if you wore the Saudi type niqab, the eyes would still be visible I'm with you on the face covering stuff, whenever I have to put on surgical masks for isolation precautions in the hospital, i feel like i'm going to pass out from re-breathing my own air. gross.

[amal 4]

[sandinista! 1,816]

Hubby is from a small place called Minya El Kamh...near Zagazig. How do I tell him what sizes to get? I am going to tell my fatness to everybody here but who gives a hoot. I normally wear a 16 pants and a 16-18 shirt.....or a 1x. I have no idea what to tell him to get? I do like the idea of sending pictures with him. Honestly, he has great taste in clothes..you'd be shocked.

if egypt is anything like morocco in this, yr clothing size in the us is meaningless, and won't help him at all. ahmed had some jellabas made for me in morocco last year, and to get the sizing right i had my mom help me take measurements, like at the bust line, hips, waist, arm length, height etc. they need to be metric of course. i told him over the phone, he wrote them down, and gave them to the tailor there who was making my jellabas.

[Ihavequestions 419]

Hubby is from a small place called Minya El Kamh...near Zagazig. How do I tell him what sizes to get? I am going to tell my fatness to everybody here but who gives a hoot. I normally wear a 16 pants and a 16-18 shirt.....or a 1x. I have no idea what to tell him to get? I do like the idea of sending pictures with him. Honestly, he has great taste in clothes..you'd be shocked.

if egypt is anything like morocco in this, yr clothing size in the us is meaningless, and won't help him at all. ahmed had some jellabas made for me in morocco last year, and to get the sizing right i had my mom help me take measurements, like at the bust line, hips, waist, arm length, height etc. they need to be metric of course. i told him over the phone, he wrote them down, and gave them to the tailor there who was making my jellabas.

Look here:

http://www.onlineconversion.com/clothing_womens.htm

And here:

http://www.usatourist.com/english/tips/Womens-Sizes.html

The sizing is European in Egypt and it's always been pretty accurate for me. If you're worried, have him buy larger because you can always have them taken in.

[sandinista! 1,816]

generic sizing drives me crazy! i'll wear one size in banana republic and need a completely different size in juicy or dkny. (i hate that i always have to buy a much bigger size in juicy than any other brand ) that's why i was thinking it was so much easier when i just gave him measurements.

so do you use the sizing converter for custom-made items? that's what i assumed she was getting. alterations were so much cheaper there than they are here, and they do nice work.

from what i've read when islam spread to west africa, umar tried, in vain, to persuade groups of people like the mandinka to cover their chests. they convinced him that their lack of covering this area was not an issue-that uncovered female chests did not have the same sexual connontations as they did in the arabian peninsula, etc. they were strictly seen as the source of infant nutrition, and nothing else. he ruled that it wasn't obligatory upon them to cover their chests. to this day some still don't, and they're just as muslim as anyone else in the ummah. it would appear that there's maybe some room for interpretation, culturally, over what is considered adornment, and what must be concealed, when and where. it can mean different things to different people, fiqh wise.

Edited July 21, 2009 by chemaatah

[Nothing1234 2]

generic sizing drives me crazy! i'll wear one size in banana republic and need a completely different size in juicy or dkny. (i hate that i always have to buy a much bigger size in juicy than any other brand ) that's why i was thinking it was so much easier when i just gave him measurements.

so do you use the sizing converter for custom-made items? that's what i assumed she was getting. alterations were so much cheaper there than they are here, and they do nice work.

from what i've read when islam spread to west africa, umar tried, in vain, to persuade groups of people like the mandinka to cover their chests. they convinced him that their lack of covering this area was not an issue-that uncovered female chests did not have the same sexual connontations as they did in the arabian peninsula, etc. they were strictly seen as the source of infant nutrition, and nothing else. he ruled that it wasn't obligatory upon them to cover their chests. to this day some still don't, and they're just as muslim as anyone else in the ummah. it would appear that there's maybe some room for interpretation, culturally, over what is considered adornment, and what must be concealed, when and where. it can mean different things to different people, fiqh wise.

Thanks for sharing that....I really agree with what you wrote at the end. I was trying to think of a response to the discussion of adornment. IMO, an adornment is 'a thing' that makes something plain into something pretty. IMO, hair, hands/feet, etc..(god given things) are not adornments. Hair clips, make up, jewelry, etc are adornments. I understand the portion of being modest and feel its quite clear, however, the discussion of adornment always confuses me since its interpretation varies.

[Aymsgirl 0]

Well, hijjab is a big discussion in my home right now because my husband works with a muslim lady that introduced herself to me and said you don't cover, why, right away. I felt like she ganged up on me.

Well, those that read Arabic may be able to explain this better and I will get the exact verse for you in what Sura later because I am at work. Well, when I read it in English it is talking about bringing your veil to your bosom and covering your adornment and such but in Arabic it has this specific word and that means to cover all....from top to bottom. He said that he couldn't understand why the translation didn't show that or at least try to explain it more. If I speak to him today I will ask him to try and spell it for me.

He doesn't push the issue because he knows there are more things that I really need to work on in my life to prepare myself for this if I ever do. My hat is off to those that do but right now I suffer with it greatly.

[sassysis 0]

Well, hijjab is a big discussion in my home right now because my husband works with a muslim lady that introduced herself to me and said you don't cover, why, right away. I felt like she ganged up on me.

Well, those that read Arabic may be able to explain this better and I will get the exact verse for you in what Sura later because I am at work. Well, when I read it in English it is talking about bringing your veil to your bosom and covering your adornment and such but in Arabic it has this specific word and that means to cover all....from top to bottom. He said that he couldn't understand why the translation didn't show that or at least try to explain it more. If I speak to him today I will ask him to try and spell it for me.

He doesn't push the issue because he knows there are more things that I really need to work on in my life to prepare myself for this if I ever do. My hat is off to those that do but right now I suffer with it greatly.

I am sorry this is such a point of suffering for you. I feel for you, really. I dont always cover my hair, for many many reasons, not always because I dont want to. I think everyone moves at their own comfort level and does what they feel they need to do, I just hate you are having problems.

Today however I have my hair covered for the first time all day at work. Hopefully I wont 'rock the boat' too much around here.

[amal 4]

I looked up adornment again in the dictionary.

adornment noun

1. a decoration of color or interest that is added to relieve plainness

2. the action of decorating yourself with something colorful and interesting

I see how this can absolutely mean 100% "IMO, hair, hands/feet, etc..(god given things) are not adornments. Hair clips, make up, jewelry, etc are adornments. "IMO, hair, hands/feet, etc..(god given things) are not adornments. Hair clips, make up, jewelry, etc are adornments." (nawals statement).

my only reason for still thinking it means to cover hair.... anything u put in ur hair to tie it back would be a form of adornment even if that was not the intention (jmho). if you brush it and style it...that's also a type of adornment because it is making it be more appealing or beautiful, therefore justifying hair as being an adornment. Or I also like to think of it as... better safe than sorry.

Now, if I can just get up the guts to start wearing it.....

[Aymsgirl 0]

Well, hijjab is a big discussion in my home right now because my husband works with a muslim lady that introduced herself to me and said you don't cover, why, right away. I felt like she ganged up on me.

Well, those that read Arabic may be able to explain this better and I will get the exact verse for you in what Sura later because I am at work. Well, when I read it in English it is talking about bringing your veil to your bosom and covering your adornment and such but in Arabic it has this specific word and that means to cover all....from top to bottom. He said that he couldn't understand why the translation didn't show that or at least try to explain it more. If I speak to him today I will ask him to try and spell it for me.

He doesn't push the issue because he knows there are more things that I really need to work on in my life to prepare myself for this if I ever do. My hat is off to those that do but right now I suffer with it greatly.

I am sorry this is such a point of suffering for you. I feel for you, really. I dont always cover my hair, for many many reasons, not always because I dont want to. I think everyone moves at their own comfort level and does what they feel they need to do, I just hate you are having problems.

Today however I have my hair covered for the first time all day at work. Hopefully I wont 'rock the boat' too much around here.

It really is. It may not look like it but in real life I am a very private person. I don't know what religion my neighbors are and it is their business. I know I will get eaten alive for this but to me it's like wearing it on my sleeve and I feel like it is my personal relationship with Allah that I need to work on. I know, I know it sounds bad, really bad. Like I am ashamed, I am not, if I am asked I am ok with it but I am just private. I really suffered with this during my conversion and delayed it just because I guess I just don't see it in black and white. I really do appreciate the fact of those that do. I just don't have the courage right now and I am weak.

[sara..... 371]

Well, hijjab is a big discussion in my home right now because my husband works with a muslim lady that introduced herself to me and said you don't cover, why, right away. I felt like she ganged up on me.

Well, those that read Arabic may be able to explain this better and I will get the exact verse for you in what Sura later because I am at work. Well, when I read it in English it is talking about bringing your veil to your bosom and covering your adornment and such but in Arabic it has this specific word and that means to cover all....from top to bottom. He said that he couldn't understand why the translation didn't show that or at least try to explain it more. If I speak to him today I will ask him to try and spell it for me.

He doesn't push the issue because he knows there are more things that I really need to work on in my life to prepare myself for this if I ever do. My hat is off to those that do but right now I suffer with it greatly.

I am sorry this is such a point of suffering for you. I feel for you, really. I dont always cover my hair, for many many reasons, not always because I dont want to. I think everyone moves at their own comfort level and does what they feel they need to do, I just hate you are having problems.

Today however I have my hair covered for the first time all day at work. Hopefully I wont 'rock the boat' too much around here.

It really is. It may not look like it but in real life I am a very private person. I don't know what religion my neighbors are and it is their business. I know I will get eaten alive for this but to me it's like wearing it on my sleeve and I feel like it is my personal relationship with Allah that I need to work on. I know, I know it sounds bad, really bad. Like I am ashamed, I am not, if I am asked I am ok with it but I am just private. I really suffered with this during my conversion and delayed it just because I guess I just don't see it in black and white. I really do appreciate the fact of those that do. I just don't have the courage right now and I am weak.

i think its something that has to come in its own time for u.

i have three younger sisters two feel very comfortable wearing hijab but the oldest of the three is still experimenting with it.

she will do things like wear a shawl that covers from about the middle of the top of her head down but just cant seem to be comfortable with wearing it to cover all of her hair. it comes with time and it cant be forced

sara

[aisha kandisha 0]

I looked up adornment again in the dictionary.

adornment noun

1. a decoration of color or interest that is added to relieve plainness

2. the action of decorating yourself with something colorful and interesting

I see how this can absolutely mean 100% "IMO, hair, hands/feet, etc..(god given things) are not adornments. Hair clips, make up, jewelry, etc are adornments. "IMO, hair, hands/feet, etc..(god given things) are not adornments. Hair clips, make up, jewelry, etc are adornments." (nawals statement).

my only reason for still thinking it means to cover hair.... anything u put in ur hair to tie it back would be a form of adornment even if that was not the intention (jmho). if you brush it and style it...that's also a type of adornment because it is making it be more appealing or beautiful, therefore justifying hair as being an adornment. Or I also like to think of it as... better safe than sorry.

Now, if I can just get up the guts to start wearing it.....

The definition of adornment in English is pretty much meaningless in understanding this ayat, and focusing on what adornment means to us pointless. The Qur'an is not written in English. Adornment is what one or a few translators chose to use to best approximate the Arabic, but the meaning we take from the Qur'an shouldn't be based on what a translator comes up with (and translations vary greatly). Rather it should be based on the long held understanding of those who not only understood Arabic but Qur'anic Arabic, that is the common understanding at the time of revelation.

Edited July 22, 2009 by aisha kandisha

[amal 4]

I looked up adornment again in the dictionary.

adornment noun

1. a decoration of color or interest that is added to relieve plainness

2. the action of decorating yourself with something colorful and interesting

I see how this can absolutely mean 100% "IMO, hair, hands/feet, etc..(god given things) are not adornments. Hair clips, make up, jewelry, etc are adornments. "IMO, hair, hands/feet, etc..(god given things) are not adornments. Hair clips, make up, jewelry, etc are adornments." (nawals statement).

my only reason for still thinking it means to cover hair.... anything u put in ur hair to tie it back would be a form of adornment even if that was not the intention (jmho). if you brush it and style it...that's also a type of adornment because it is making it be more appealing or beautiful, therefore justifying hair as being an adornment. Or I also like to think of it as... better safe than sorry.

Now, if I can just get up the guts to start wearing it.....

The definition of adornment in English is pretty much meaningless in understanding this ayat, and focusing on what adornment means to us pointless. The Qur'an is not written in English. Adornment is what one or a few translators chose to use to best approximate the Arabic, but the meaning we take from the Qur'an shouldn't be based on what a translator comes up with (and translations vary greatly). Rather it should be based on the long held understanding of those who not only understood Arabic but Qur'anic Arabic, that is the common understanding at the time of revelation.

But since I'm American and speak very little Arabic, the english translation is the best thing I can go on so to best make it the most meaningful to myself, I have to be able to justify it within the words that I'm able to read. And of course, I explained that already so no need to go there again

I have a hijab laying accross my shoulder as we speak in anticipation of putting it on today. I was 1/2 covered yesterday and it went very well but I am just so scared to go all the way. inch by inch is my motto in this situation