Muslims

[UmmSqueakster 54]

The islamic month before Ramadan is named Shaban. What does he mean by no drinking? Alcohol? To state the obvious, there's no drinking alcohol at any time during the year, not just during Shaban. But if he feels like he needs to give it up for Ramadan, then he better do it 40 days before, so that his prayers are accepted during the month of Ramadan. We're now on the 16th of Rajab. Shaban will start on the 23rd or 24th of July.

As for a Ramadan schedule, one would refer to the prayer times to figure out when one starts fasting and when one breaks the fast

*Go to http://islamicfinder.org/

*enter your zip code

*click on the link on the right that says "monthly prayer times"

*click the link that says "monthly/annual schedule"

*on the right side, go to the second drop down menu that says Muharam and then select Ramadan

*That will give him a calendar of the approximate start of the month of Ramadan (based on calculation, although some would argue [like myself] that technically the month starts when the moon is actually seen. For moon sighting in north america, visit Crescent Watch). I'm sure he's aware that he needs to start his fast at the beginning of fajr, and can break it at the beginning of maghrib.

[Sandrila 1]

Squeaky

As I stated many times and is no secret, my husband will drink. He doesn't drink often. He has made me aware of this Shaban which comes 30-40 days before Ramdan actually starts. Thanks for verifying it.

He does not pray 5x times a day or go to the mosque.

He does diligently observe Ramadan.

I know what you are thinking and maybe even want to say but it honestly his religion and how he chooses to observe and respect the way he was raised it his responsibility.

He does not expect me to convert. Although I am very respectful of his religion and trying to learn for myself to better understand his roots and values, I have obviously accepted him the way he is.

I think it would be nice and very good for him to practice, pray and observe what is important all throughout the year.

He has told me way too many times Muslim or not MOST of the Muslims in his country drink.

As always thank you for your information.

[UmmSqueakster 54]

Sorry, I didn't meant to come across as harsh. I am very glad that he wants to fast ramadan. After all, something is better than nothing Just (gently) remind him that he should stop drinking 40 days before Ramadan, and should think about adding the prayers in too, to make his fast more complete.

One of my personal pet peeves is how muslim men who drink often get a pass, where as muslim women who don't wear hijab are ganged up upon and beaten down, when drinking is much more strongly condemend islamically then not wearing hijab. Well, at least that's how it was when I was in college. Lots of gulf boys came over wearing armani, driving big fancy cars and partying all night with the ladies

[Sandrila 1]

I visited the site...it is very informative, thank you.

16th of Rajab 1430

means what exactly?

Does the sighting of the moon "actually" seeing it.

What if it is cloudy but the moon is there?

It tends to get a little confusing.

When and what in Maroc....when and what here, technically, as far as times, dates and seeing the moon.

I respect all what you have learned and share here Squeaks and I sensed no harshness.

I just know it may seem odd, to devout practicing Muslims, and feel he is not truly "Muslim" due to his

lack of devotion, however he seems Muslim enough to me in alot of other ways and things that he says.

i would very much like to see him become more active and responsible in his religion and practice. I guess everyone is different but not quite sure why he is not.

Walk the walk. Talk the talk.

I would never deter him from that, if in fact he is truly serious.

I can understand the double standard and quite frankly I do not approve of him drinking.

It is hard because I am one who likes to relax and enjoy drinking socially sometimes.

I have that control and I don't have to feel guilty about it because in my mind and heart my obligations to my My GOD, family and work are being fulfilled. I do however refrain from tempting him during this reverant time by not drinking around him or going places where it may be. I also have tried my hardest to take part in Ramadan. I do fast.

I can't say I have been able to committ myself to all areas of discipline but I figure I will try a little at a time.

Last year the fasting.

This year fasting and maybe the smoking

Thanks again

Edited July 9, 2009 by Sandrila

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Also I've been reading books by Adnan Oktar. Is he generally a respected theologian of Islam? His writings are very interesting but I did a quick Wikipedia search on him and noticed he had some legal problems in the past.

I'm not a Harun Yahya fan, mainly beause I don't like to get into the whole evolution vs. creationism debate. He's not really a theologian - more of a self educated crusader against evolution.

Is there a reason you're reading his books? If there is something in particular you're looking for, perhaps I or someone else here can point you towards other things to read as well.

I was reading his interpretation of the Quran and the end times. Thats why I wanted to know if he was respected or not. He says that Jesus is both a prophet and Messiah but not God. That He was able to fool the Roman and Jewish record keepers into thinking He was dead on the cross but survived and was taken into heaven. He went on to say that He will return to earth and live for 40 years before dying. In the end time, he says that all peoples will be killed except those who believe in Allah. 144,000 Jews will be spared (this is also in the New Testament btw) and that Christians will be spared. He goes on to explain that Allah will rule over the Jews with the Torah and will repair the Gospel to its original state which will be used to rule over the Christians. Obviously those who follow Islam will be ruled over by the Quran and will have a special place.

Is this the general conclusion of most who follow Islam? I realize that the End Times are interpreted differently depending on what sect you are ie. I think he is Sunni?

Edited July 9, 2009 by lancer1655

[UmmSqueakster 54]

I visited the site...it is very informative, thank you.

16th of Rajab 1430

means what exactly?

Does the sighting of the moon "actually" seeing it.

What if it is cloudy but the moon is there?

It tends to get a little confusing.

When and what in Maroc....when and what here, technically, as far as times, dates and seeing the moon.

inshaAllah I'll dig up a post I've done on this in the past and stick it in the Ramadan thread with some updates. It's kinda complicated and often contentious here - another year, another moon fight.

I respect all what you have learned and share here Squeaks and I sensed no harshness.

I just know it may seem odd, to devout practicing Muslims, and feel he is not truly "Muslim" due to his

lack of devotion, however he seems Muslim enough to me in alot of other ways and things that he says.

i would very much like to see him become more active and responsible in his religion and practice. I guess everyone is different but not quite sure why he is not.

I suppose it's odd, but sadly it's not uncommon here. But then, christianity has it's easter and christmas christains and we have our ramadan and eid muslims.

Last year the fasting.

This year fasting and maybe the smoking

Thanks again

you're welcome and best of luck! I know smoking is a hard habit to kick, but inshaAllah you can do it

[UmmSqueakster 54]

I was reading his interpretation of the Quran and the end times. Thats why I wanted to know if he was respected or not. He says that Jesus is both a prophet and Messiah but not God. That He was able to fool the Roman and Jewish record keepers into thinking He was dead on the cross but survived and was taken into heaven. He went on to say that He will return to earth and live for 40 years before dying. In the end time, he says that all peoples will be killed except those who believe in Allah. 144,000 Jews will be spared (this is also in the New Testament btw) and that Christians will be spared. He goes on to explain that Allah will rule over the Jews with the Torah and will repair the Gospel to its original state which will be used to rule over the Christians. Obviously those who follow Islam will be ruled over by the Quran and will have a special place.

Is this the general conclusion of most who follow Islam? I realize that the End Times are interpreted differently depending on what sect you are ie. I think he is Sunni?

There was actually a hadith related by Bukhari (an authentic hadith collection) I came across recently that relates to the end times:

Narrated Anas (ra): A bedouin came to the Prophet (saws) and said, "O Allah's Apostle! When will The Hour [the end times] be established?" The Prophet said, "Wailaka (Woe to you), What have you prepared for it?" The bedouin said, "I have not prepared anything for it, except that I love Allah and H is Apostle." The Prophet said, "You will be with those whom you love." We (the companions of the Prophet ) said, "And will we too be so? The Prophet said, "Yes." So we became very glad on that day.

My husband and I have been having an ongoing discussion of more than a year with a Jehovah's Witness and she will often want to talk about the end times. That's one of the areas I don't really delve into. When I look at this hadith, I see that instead of telling the man the information, the Prophet (saws) emphasizes the importance of working in the here and now, so that when the hour does come, we'll be ready.

I had asked on my blog recently for a recommendation on a good book on the end times to give to the JW, and one of my friends passed on to me that a teacher we both respect said that there wasn't a really good book out there, because many of the narrations of hadith are unsound. Hadith (sayings of the prophet) have a science behind them, classifying how sound a hadith is, how reliable the narrators were, how sound the chain of transmition was. There are collections of sahih (sound) hadiths that are generally accepted by (sunni) muslims, such as Bukhari, Muslim, Abu Dawud and Tirhmidi are the big ones, with the collections of al-Nasa'i, Imam Malik and Ibn Majah.

I found this Harun Yahya book online - http://www.harunyahya.com/mahdi02.php#top - and did a quick read through. I'm not sure about the soundness of some of the hadith he is using. If you don't mind waiting, I can ask AbuS to look through it and see how accurate it is.

The general narration you gave seems right. Jesus (as) is al Masih, the messiah, but not the son of God, nor God himself. He didn't die, and will return at the end of times. I'm unsure where he gets the 144,000 number from islamically, aside from poaching it from the bible. Unsure about that last bit as well.

[sandinista! 1,816]

Also I've been reading books by Adnan Oktar. Is he generally a respected theologian of Islam? His writings are very interesting but I did a quick Wikipedia search on him and noticed he had some legal problems in the past.

I'm not a Harun Yahya fan, mainly beause I don't like to get into the whole evolution vs. creationism debate. He's not really a theologian - more of a self educated crusader against evolution.

Is there a reason you're reading his books? If there is something in particular you're looking for, perhaps I or someone else here can point you towards other things to read as well.

I was reading his interpretation of the Quran and the end times. Thats why I wanted to know if he was respected or not. He says that Jesus is both a prophet and Messiah but not God. That He was able to fool the Roman and Jewish record keepers into thinking He was dead on the cross but survived and was taken into heaven. He went on to say that He will return to earth and live for 40 years before dying. In the end time, he says that all peoples will be killed except those who believe in Allah. 144,000 Jews will be spared (this is also in the New Testament btw) and that Christians will be spared. He goes on to explain that Allah will rule over the Jews with the Torah and will repair the Gospel to its original state which will be used to rule over the Christians. Obviously those who follow Islam will be ruled over by the Quran and will have a special place.

Is this the general conclusion of most who follow Islam? I realize that the End Times are interpreted differently depending on what sect you are ie. I think he is Sunni?

isa was never on the cross to begin with, so therefore never 'survived' anything. he ascended into heaven before the crucifixion.

Edited July 9, 2009 by chemaatah

[msheesha 548]

Sorry, I didn't meant to come across as harsh. I am very glad that he wants to fast ramadan. After all, something is better than nothing Just (gently) remind him that he should stop drinking 40 days before Ramadan, and should think about adding the prayers in too, to make his fast more complete.

One of my personal pet peeves is how muslim men who drink often get a pass, where as muslim women who don't wear hijab are ganged up upon and beaten down, when drinking is much more strongly condemend islamically then not wearing hijab. Well, at least that's how it was when I was in college. Lots of gulf boys came over wearing armani, driving big fancy cars and partying all night with the ladies

I want to start by saying that my intent is not to personally attack you in any way, shape, or form. I just want to express that reading what you wrote to Sandrila about her husband did come across, to me, at least, as harsh. Muslims aren't perfect. No human is. We all have our individual and collective weaknesses. If Sandrila's husband's issue/weakness is that he drinks alcohol, that is absolutely between him and Allah. I just don't feel there is a need for judgement for human weakness, but if anything, excitement that another Muslim is preparing for Ramadan in the best way he is currently able/willing. Good for him that he's thinking about Ramadan. I'm sure he's fully aware about what he needs to do, and doesn't need you to "should" all over him.

Also, you mention in this post how it bothers you that women who don't wear hijab are "ganged up upon and beaten down", but in this post, you imply that women should be able to withstand what Bilal withstood, and those who don't wear hijab are weak in some way.

Has anyone read the story of Bilal (ra)? How he accepted Islam as a slave and when his master found out, he took him out to the desert and ordered him to renounce his faith? And when he refused, his master tied him down to the hot desert sand and began to pile boulders on top of him, all the while demanding that he renounce his faith? And despite the torture, Bilal (ra) kept repeating "Ahad, Ahad," one, one, denying the polytheism his master was demanding of him.

When the suffering became to great for some of the companions in Mecca, did they leave parts of the religion that were causing them too much trouble? No, instead they migrated to Abyssinia and then later to Medina.

No matter what we suffer here, it is very rarely up to the level of suffering of the Prophet (saws) and his companions (ra).

For better or for worse, muslims view hijab as a sign of faith. It isn't simply a piece of cloth - it's a visible sign of submission to Allah (swt). If one's relationship is based on Allah (swt) first and foremost, then leaving an aspect of the religion is taking out a plank upon which the relationship is based.

I have no desire to debate whether or not hijab is required. Suffice to say that if one looks to the ulema of the last 1400 years, there's an obvious consensus and it's not that it's a choice.

I think that it's easy to try to "out-Muslim" others on anonymous blogs and forums, and I often see that here. I just wish that people would try to "out-Muslim" each other with compassion and respect, rather than what seems like judgement, reprimands and criticism.

Peace.

[UmmSqueakster 54]

I want to start by saying that my intent is not to personally attack you in any way, shape, or form. I just want to express that reading what you wrote to Sandrila about her husband did come across, to me, at least, as harsh. Muslims aren't perfect. No human is. We all have our individual and collective weaknesses. If Sandrila's husband's issue/weakness is that he drinks alcohol, that is absolutely between him and Allah. I just don't feel there is a need for judgement for human weakness, but if anything, excitement that another Muslim is preparing for Ramadan in the best way he is currently able/willing. Good for him that he's thinking about Ramadan. I'm sure he's fully aware about what he needs to do, and doesn't need you to "should" all over him.

There are people who read this thread who are new to Islam and who may be confused if one is advised solely to stop drinking 40 days before the start of Ramadan. This may be interpreted as it is acceptable to be drinking the other 300 some days during the year. As such, I stated what should be done. It wasn’t a judgment, it was a statement of fact, because there have been some readers/posters who haven’t been aware that islam prohibits the consumption of alcohol.

And honestly, if we looked at what the Prophet (saws) had to say on the matter, you’d find he was a whole heck of a lot harsher on the issue than I was.

Also, you mention in this post how it bothers you that women who don't wear hijab are "ganged up upon and beaten down", but in this post, you imply that women should be able to withstand what Bilal withstood, and those who don't wear hijab are weak in some way.

Not really. Practicing the religion has often been difficult for muslims throughout history. We can draw strength from the strength of those who came before us. Everyone has their own level of tolerance for dealing with BS, but if I know that the Prophet (saws) was persecuted, perhaps it can help me face my own struggles and feel not so alone.

We need to be cautious about giving up aspects of our deen. We should need to be ashamed or afraid that we’re muslims, and if people have a problem with that, tough cookies.

I think that it's easy to try to "out-Muslim" others on anonymous blogs and forums, and I often see that here. I just wish that people would try to "out-Muslim" each other with compassion and respect, rather than what seems like judgement, reprimands and criticism.
Peace.

Islam is the middle path. In it is both mercy and harshness. We can’t always be sugar and spice and everything nice.

Peace.

[Nothing1234 2]

Sorry, I didn't meant to come across as harsh. I am very glad that he wants to fast ramadan. After all, something is better than nothing Just (gently) remind him that he should stop drinking 40 days before Ramadan, and should think about adding the prayers in too, to make his fast more complete.

One of my personal pet peeves is how muslim men who drink often get a pass, where as muslim women who don't wear hijab are ganged up upon and beaten down, when drinking is much more strongly condemend islamically then not wearing hijab. Well, at least that's how it was when I was in college. Lots of gulf boys came over wearing armani, driving big fancy cars and partying all night with the ladies

I want to start by saying that my intent is not to personally attack you in any way, shape, or form. I just want to express that reading what you wrote to Sandrila about her husband did come across, to me, at least, as harsh. Muslims aren't perfect. No human is. We all have our individual and collective weaknesses. If Sandrila's husband's issue/weakness is that he drinks alcohol, that is absolutely between him and Allah. I just don't feel there is a need for judgement for human weakness, but if anything, excitement that another Muslim is preparing for Ramadan in the best way he is currently able/willing. Good for him that he's thinking about Ramadan. I'm sure he's fully aware about what he needs to do, and doesn't need you to "should" all over him.

Also, you mention in this post how it bothers you that women who don't wear hijab are "ganged up upon and beaten down", but in this post, you imply that women should be able to withstand what Bilal withstood, and those who don't wear hijab are weak in some way.

Has anyone read the story of Bilal (ra)? How he accepted Islam as a slave and when his master found out, he took him out to the desert and ordered him to renounce his faith? And when he refused, his master tied him down to the hot desert sand and began to pile boulders on top of him, all the while demanding that he renounce his faith? And despite the torture, Bilal (ra) kept repeating "Ahad, Ahad," one, one, denying the polytheism his master was demanding of him.

When the suffering became to great for some of the companions in Mecca, did they leave parts of the religion that were causing them too much trouble? No, instead they migrated to Abyssinia and then later to Medina.

No matter what we suffer here, it is very rarely up to the level of suffering of the Prophet (saws) and his companions (ra).

For better or for worse, muslims view hijab as a sign of faith. It isn't simply a piece of cloth - it's a visible sign of submission to Allah (swt). If one's relationship is based on Allah (swt) first and foremost, then leaving an aspect of the religion is taking out a plank upon which the relationship is based.

I have no desire to debate whether or not hijab is required. Suffice to say that if one looks to the ulema of the last 1400 years, there's an obvious consensus and it's not that it's a choice.

I think that it's easy to try to "out-Muslim" others on anonymous blogs and forums, and I often see that here. I just wish that people would try to "out-Muslim" each other with compassion and respect, rather than what seems like judgement, reprimands and criticism.

Peace.

UmmSqueakster (Rahma) is always kind, non-judgemental and wonderful w/ advice w/ a little touch of "worry and what I like to call "mommy-ness" to her. She is concerned for our well-being and relationship with Allah. Also very clear on her points and never a harsh hand...only a little push in the right direction. I think maybe you misunderstood her intention. If you read back on all these pages she is a wealth of knowledge and kindness.

Welcome to the Muslim thread and I'm happy you joined in to share your thoughts.

[UmmSqueakster 54]

Thanks Nawal I think I need to have kids ASAP! My poor kitty is mothered to death by me day in and day out.

[Nothing1234 2]

Thanks Nawal I think I need to have kids ASAP! My poor kitty is mothered to death by me day in and day out.

YW!!! Awwww...you will make a wonderful Mommy!! If you ever have a need to borrow a child or two...you know who's bell to ring!

[UmmSqueakster 54]

Fresh Squeaky-Muslim LOLcat. Honest to God, she was even facing the qibla.

Al-Bara’ ibn ‘Azib (ra) said, “When the Messenger of Allah (saws) used to retire to his bed, he would lie on his right side and then say, ‘O Allah, I surrender my soul to You and I turn my face to You and I entrust my affair to You and I seek Your support with hope and fear of You. There is no refuge from You but to You. I have believed in Your Book which You sent down and Your Prophet whom You sent.’” [al-Bukhari]

[~Jackie~ 30]

@ da sunnah kitteh