Obama the Zionist

[almaty 19]

I figured you probably missed this post...

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...t&p=1853744

No, I didn't. It had some very good points:

1.American Jews choose to back candidates largely on the basis of their stance on Israel.

2.To be strong on Israel, you have to be harsh to the Palestinians.

3.The Rev. John Hagee and his fellow Christian Zionists are good for the Jews.

4. Talking peace with your enemies demonstrates weakness.

5. George W. Bush is the best friend Israel has ever had.

I'd like to bring your attention to #4.

So what are you saying? You agree that diplomacy is a good thing?

I'm saying that talking peace with your enemies demonstrates weakness.

disagree..the SALT talks..Helsinki accords over nukes with the soviets showed common sense..

[Sheriff Uling 3]

Jabbe - You will have a difficult time attempting to persuade conservative republicans that diplomacy is a necessity beyond the US having the upper hand in negotiations in order to force compliance to our proposed terms. This is the definition of diplomacy to conservative republicans. It's a negotiation. Therefore, meeting with other nations in the noble art diplomacy without set demands to impose serves no purpose from their point of view. To write it plainly… that seems childish and selfish. No wonder the rest of the world (just about anyway) hates us. They are the children and we are the parent telling them what they are going to do. It's hard to build the blocks of diplomacy and compromise with that way of thinking.

Edited May 23, 2008 by Sheriff Uling

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Jabbe - You will have a difficult time attempting to persuade conservative republicans that diplomacy is a necessity beyond the US having the upper hand in negotiations in order to force compliance to our proposed terms. This is the definition of diplomacy to conservative republicans. It's a negotiation. Therefore, meeting with other nations in the noble art diplomacy without set demands to impose serves no purpose from their point of view. To write it plainly… that seems childish and selfish. No wonder the rest of the world (just about anyway) hates us.

Yep, although I'd say it's the neo-cons who have trouble with diplomacy. The cowboy mentality has failed miserably...thank God it's all about to end.

[S and S 12]

Yes, ignoring our enemies really makes them jump up and comply with our demands. I can see that clearly with Iran, Syria and North Korea. We haven't been "talking" to Iran for how many decades now and you can see they are really giving it their all to do our bidding.

Why would anyone want to comply with our demands before we even talk to them? Would anyone want to do that in their daily life?

[Ban Hammer 13,346]

You've missed out on about 500 years of progress.

and you've missed out on about 500 years of history.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

You've missed out on about 500 years of progress.

and you've missed out on about 500 years of history.

rrrrright... the days of the neo-cons and their revisionist history are almost over...I'm counting the days.

There are parallels between neo-conservatism and other similar apocalyptical movements (like Christian fundamentalism). They see the world in Manichaeistic terms - good versus evil. They see a clash between good and evil as both desirable and inevitable. In their world, diplomacy is unacceptable, since it implies compromise with evil. And in the final battle, they see the outcome as assured - with good triumphant. All that is required, they believe, for good to be victorious is a determined act of the will. This was the ahistorical lesson they "learned" from Reagan. And this was the lesson they sought to impart to George W. Bush.

And so it was that President Bush bought their "snake oil". He declared a divine mission to promote freedom against its enemies - whom he termed the "Axis of Evil". Shunning traditional diplomacy, the Administration instead built a 'coalition of the willing'. Using "shock and awe" they brought down the Baghdad regime and declared "mission accomplished", convinced that out of the resultant chaos a new democratic order would spontaneously emerge, not only in Iraq, but across the Middle East.

It did not.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-zogby/...-c_b_34754.html

[mawilson 2,133]

You've missed out on about 500 years of progress.

and you've missed out on about 500 years of history.

rrrrright... the days of the neo-cons and their revisionist history are almost over...I'm counting the days.

Maybe you just need a time machine to go back to 1979... Jimmy was everything you are

hoping Barack will be, but a great President he was not.

Fuel shortages, the takeover of the US Embassy in Tehran, the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan...

all products of a weak foreign policy of a weak President who still thinks we can solve all

our problems by "negotiating" with our enemies.

[GaryC 7]

Jabbe - You will have a difficult time attempting to persuade conservative republicans that diplomacy is a necessity beyond the US having the upper hand in negotiations in order to force compliance to our proposed terms. This is the definition of diplomacy to conservative republicans. It's a negotiation. Therefore, meeting with other nations in the noble art diplomacy without set demands to impose serves no purpose from their point of view. To write it plainly… that seems childish and selfish. No wonder the rest of the world (just about anyway) hates us.

Yep, although I'd say it's the neo-cons who have trouble with diplomacy. The cowboy mentality has failed miserably...thank God it's all about to end.

It will continue when McCain gets elected, thank God!!!

You've missed out on about 500 years of progress.

and you've missed out on about 500 years of history.

rrrrright... the days of the neo-cons and their revisionist history are almost over...I'm counting the days.

Maybe you just need a time machine to go back to 1979... Jimmy was everything you are

hoping Barack will be, but a great President he was not.

Fuel shortages, the takeover of the US Embassy in Tehran, the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan...

all products of a weak foreign policy of a weak President who still thinks we can solve all

our problems by "negotiating" with our enemies.

Obama will be nothing more than the second term of Carter. No thanks.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

You've missed out on about 500 years of progress.

and you've missed out on about 500 years of history.

rrrrright... the days of the neo-cons and their revisionist history are almost over...I'm counting the days.

Maybe you just need a time machine to go back to 1979... Jimmy was everything you are

hoping Barack will be, but a great President he was not.

Fuel shortages, the takeover of the US Embassy in Tehran, the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan...

all products of a weak foreign policy of a weak President who still thinks we can solve all

our problems by "negotiating" with our enemies.

Right....Bill Clinton didn't no sh!t about diplomacy either. Oh wait...he did, but nobody dares to compare Obama to Bill Clinton because of the positive image in the minds of many that it evokes.

Keep stewing in that neo-con revisionist history...it must feel like a nice warm bath.

On November 21, 1995, the world witnessed an event that for years many believed impossible: on a secluded, wind-swept U.S. Air Force Base in Dayton, Ohio, the leaders of Bosnia, Serbia, and Croatia agreed to end a war. The signing of the Dayton Peace Accords concluded one of the most challenging diplomatic undertakings the United States had pursued since the end of the Cold War -- eighteen weeks of whirlwind shuttle diplomacy, followed by twenty-one intensive days of negotiations in Dayton. The agreement brought peace to a troubled corner of Europe, and established an ambitious blueprint to build a new Bosnia -- an effort that the international community remains deeply engaged in today.

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB171/index.htm

[Ban Hammer 13,346]

You've missed out on about 500 years of progress.

and you've missed out on about 500 years of history.

rrrrright... the days of the neo-cons and their revisionist history are almost over...I'm counting the days.

surely you remember how well the native americans negotiated with the invaders and look at where they are today.

how about the incas? how about the eskimos?

negotiating from a position of weakness is always going to end in disaster.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

You've missed out on about 500 years of progress.

and you've missed out on about 500 years of history.

rrrrright... the days of the neo-cons and their revisionist history are almost over...I'm counting the days.

surely you remember how well the native americans negotiated with the invaders and look at where they are today.

how about the incas? how about the eskimos?

negotiating from a position of weakness is always going to end in disaster.

You're comparing the U.S. - the most powerful country militarily in the world, to the native american tribes of the 19th century???

[Nagishkaw 510]

Why not?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Why not?

Because it was the U.S. who broke the treaties it made to the Native American tribes - the stronger, more powerful side (U.S.) took advantage, not the other way around. To imply that the U.S. is somehow weaker than Iran or any other country in today's world would require an incredible imagination and suspension of disbelief.

[mawilson 2,133]

Why not?

Because it was the U.S. who broke the treaties it made to the Native American tribes - the stronger, more powerful side (U.S.) took advantage, not the other way around. To imply that the U.S. is somehow weaker than Iran or any other country in today's world would require an incredible imagination and suspension of disbelief.

Wanting to negotiate would make us look weaker.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

You've missed out on about 500 years of progress.

and you've missed out on about 500 years of history.

rrrrright... the days of the neo-cons and their revisionist history are almost over...I'm counting the days.

Maybe you just need a time machine to go back to 1979... Jimmy was everything you are

hoping Barack will be, but a great President he was not.

Fuel shortages, the takeover of the US Embassy in Tehran, the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan...

all products of a weak foreign policy of a weak President who still thinks we can solve all

our problems by "negotiating" with our enemies.

Right....Bill Clinton didn't no sh!t about diplomacy either. Oh wait...he did, but nobody dares to compare Obama to Bill Clinton because of the positive image in the minds of many that it evokes.

Keep stewing in that neo-con revisionist history...it must feel like a nice warm bath.

...with bubbles.