christian and muslim family

[Ban Hammer 13,334]

Since leaving Islam is not allowed, start the kids out as Christians and let them convert to Islam if they want to. win-win

they can leave.....

[Sofiyya 1,687]

As-salamu'alaykum,

Mushirk = anyone who worships other than Allah.

Is this definition correct? If it is then anyone who worships Isa (pbuh) has committed shirk. Or if a person subscribes to the trinity (Father Son and Holy Ghost and these 3 are 1) they had ascribed partners with Allah and therefore becomes a mushirk.

I'm assuming your husband of 30 years was/is a Unitarian? If not you have broken Allah's law.

wa salam

Alaykum Salaam,

A musrik is someone who worships more than one god, a polytheist. The Quran distinguishes Christians and Jews from musrikeen and kafir many times. Since Allah forbids Muslims, male or female, from marriage with mushrikeen and kafir, but allows marriage between Muslims, Christians and Jews, they cannot be mushrikeen or kafir just by being non-Muslim.

One thing to keep in mind is that on the Day of Judgment, Allah will decide who has followed Him and who has not. Merely considering oneself to be Muslim is no guarantee that one wil enter jannah (heaven). Merely considering oneself to be otherwise is no condemnation.

Allah says that there will be Christians and Jews in heaven, and those among the Muslims who will not. Q2:62 is one of several ayah that express this intent: Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. - Yusef Ali transliteration

Verily, those who have attained to faith [in this divine writ], as well as those who follow the Jewish faith, and the Christians, and the Sabeans - all who believe in God and the Last Day and do righteous deeds - shall have their reward with their Sustainer; and no fear need they have, and neither shall they grieve. - Muhammad Asad transliteration

Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve. - M.H. Shakir transliteration

Allah also says He has purposely made us believe differently so that we will learn how to live together in His Name.

5:48 To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah. it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute; - Yusef Ali transliteration

I have no regret about having married a Christian man. He was set onto my path by the Divine, and I do not question such an allowance from Allah, who is far wiser than I. Since Allah has no law forbidding interfaith marriage between Muslimas and ahl al kitab men, I have broken no law. I have been blessed with His favor in marriage many more times than I deserve.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Since leaving Islam is not allowed, start the kids out as Christians and let them convert to Islam if they want to. win-win

they can leave.....

49:13 O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things).

I have several cousins who have left Islam. They are pious people, well and happy, and still within the fold of the family. If you believe that God guides all, and they are of Him, you leave these things to Him. We are warned not to claim to be Chosen People, for that is a complaint Allah makes of the proud and arrogant among us.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Some of you may enjoy this article.

"Muslims Try to Balance Traditions, U.S. Culture on Path to Marriage"

By Michelle Boorstein ("Washington Post", May 27, 2008)

As imam of one of the Washington region's largest mosques, Mohamed Magid counsels married couples, including those with a problem he sees among Muslim Americans: husbands and wives who were virtual strangers before they wedded.

Islamic practice bans unsupervised dating, and in transient 2008 America, traditional Muslims may wind up far from families who once oversaw the connection of two single people. Many African American Muslims are converts and do not have Muslim relatives who can help with the process.

A few years ago, Magid, imam of the All Dulles Area Muslim Society in Sterling, started something new: required premarital counseling for people who marry at the mosque. His wife recently launched a singles program meant to honor modesty and cut to the chase: participants meet in groups to discuss scriptural problems, read stories, and make lists of what they think are the most important characteristics for a Muslim wife or husband in the United States.

Although premarital counseling and singles programs are common for some faith groups, they are new in U.S. mosques, placing Magid and his wife on the vanguard of a drive to update Muslim practices and institutions surrounding marriage. The movement stems from concern among many Muslim American leaders that families are not keeping up with cultural changes, leading people to divorce and marry multiple times, or become alienated either from Islam or from mainstream American life.

Key issues include what Islam says about interfaith marriage, how well Muslims can know each another before they marry, and what the modern version is of a "wali," or guardian, a figure in Islam who is supposed to help women pick the right husbands.

"Generation gaps, cultural differences when people from the United States marry someone from overseas, interfaith marriage -- the issue of marriage is one of the most important in Islam here right now," Magid said. "Anytime there is a program at the mosque about these things, it's completely packed."

A commonly discussed problem is the surplus of single Muslim women. This stems partly from Islamic practice's broader acceptance of men marrying outside the faith than women.

Daisy Khan, a New York activist who counsels couples with her husband, an imam, organized a Valentine's Day event for singles -- 15 men and 63 women attended. Although she used to feel torn about interfaith marriage, she is now concerned that women will either be left unmarried or leave their faith. She tries to connect Muslim couples but also thinks pious Muslim women should be able to marry non-Muslims who also are pious.

"It's my obligation to shift a little, to give a little because it's important for them to stay within the faith," she said. "You have to clear up the mandate of: What is God's mission? I see God's hand in this."

In a Pew Research Center poll of Muslim Americans released last year, 54 percent of women said interfaith marriage is acceptable, compared with 70 percent of men.

Marriage practices are a growing issue among Muslims in part because melding into the mainstream is increasingly their goal, experts said. This is true for many first- and second-generation Muslims and U.S.-born converts. It is a complex balance, however, testing relations between parents and children and within new couples.

Many Muslim dating and marriage traditions exist to promote sexual reserve, particularly among women, but in 2008, separation between potential mates has lost its cultural moorings.

"It creates these experiences of weirdness where you're more comfortable with [non-Muslim] John at work than Mohamed" at the mosque, said Zarinah El Amin-Naeem, 28, an anthropologist.

The Muslim Alliance in North America, a national group made up largely of prominent black Muslims, held its first national conference in the fall and named marriage reform as one of its top priorities. A concern is the rush into marriage, either to have sex or because structures that once screened potential spouses, such as close-knit, large families and cultural isolation, have diminished.

"In Islamic culture there is no dating and no kind of middle ground, so the sense is, if this person is a good person, let's get married. The impulse isn't to prolong a courting relationship. Our advocacy is it needs to be prolonged somewhat," said Ihsan Bagby, co-founder of the Muslim Alliance in North America.

Issues related to marriage play out differently across the Muslim American community. The problem of strangers marrying is more common among African American Muslims than among immigrant families because many are converts and might not have families involved in their faith lives, experts said. Tensions surrounding interfaith marriages are more common among Muslims from South Asia, who tend to be more traditional, than those from Africa or Turkey.

And, of course, many Muslims are secular or are liberal about their faith, perhaps using a Muslim dating Web site such as naseeb.com but not agonizing over premarital sex or seeking a wali. Even for non-observant Muslims, however, "when it comes to the issue of marriage, because Muslim families tend to be so involved, there is more tradition involved than in other aspects of their lives," said Dalia Mogahed, executive director of the Gallup Center for Muslim Studies.

Interfaith marriage is a huge topic with wide cultural ramifications. Because Islamic tradition, not law, holds that a Muslim man can intermarry but not a woman, a substantial gender gap in the dating pool has opened as children and grandchildren of immigrants have grown up.

The Koran says for Muslims to marry "believers," the meaning of which has long been the source of great debate but has been widely interpreted to include Christians and Jews. Although the Koran does not address the gender issue directly, tradition has held that women are more easily subjugated, and therefore a Muslim woman in an interfaith marriage could be forced by a Christian or Jew to live and raise her children outside of Islam, while a Muslim man in an interfaith relationship would be able to control the household's faith.

Abdullahi Ahmed An-Na'im, an Islamic family law expert at Emory University, argues that gender dynamics have changed in a way that makes interfaith marriage more reasonable under Islamic tradition. "In social reality today, men are not dominant in the marriage relationship. The rationale of historic rule is no longer valid," he said. "But people are not willing to accept this. This is a major source of tensions."

Qur'an Shakir, who runs national Muslim dating events and writes a column on Muslim dating, said a lot of people debate the value of a dowry today, even as a symbolic commitment, while others think that the position of wali should be updated to be more like a relationship mentor and less like a guardian, and that men should have walis, too.

"People need to be open to different interpretations of the Koran," she said.

http://www.wwrn.org/article.php?idd=28701&...on=4&sec=33

[punkmada 0]

Since leaving Islam is not allowed, start the kids out as Christians and let them convert to Islam if they want to. win-win

they can leave.....

49:13 O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things).

I have several cousins who have left Islam. They are pious people, well and happy, and still within the fold of the family. If you believe that God guides all, and they are of Him, you leave these things to Him. We are warned not to claim to be Chosen People, for that is a complaint Allah makes of the proud and arrogant among us.

You are a VERY great teacher!!! I really respect all the knowledge straight from Quran that you have shared with us. May Allah reward you!!!

[howdydoodle 0]

Some of you may enjoy this article.

"Muslims Try to Balance Traditions, U.S. Culture on Path to Marriage"

By Michelle Boorstein ("Washington Post", May 27, 2008)

As imam of one of the Washington region's largest mosques, Mohamed Magid counsels married couples, including those with a problem he sees among Muslim Americans: husbands and wives who were virtual strangers before they wedded.

Islamic practice bans unsupervised dating, and in transient 2008 America, traditional Muslims may wind up far from families who once oversaw the connection of two single people. Many African American Muslims are converts and do not have Muslim relatives who can help with the process.

A few years ago, Magid, imam of the All Dulles Area Muslim Society in Sterling, started something new: required premarital counseling for people who marry at the mosque. His wife recently launched a singles program meant to honor modesty and cut to the chase: participants meet in groups to discuss scriptural problems, read stories, and make lists of what they think are the most important characteristics for a Muslim wife or husband in the United States.

Although premarital counseling and singles programs are common for some faith groups, they are new in U.S. mosques, placing Magid and his wife on the vanguard of a drive to update Muslim practices and institutions surrounding marriage. The movement stems from concern among many Muslim American leaders that families are not keeping up with cultural changes, leading people to divorce and marry multiple times, or become alienated either from Islam or from mainstream American life.

Key issues include what Islam says about interfaith marriage, how well Muslims can know each another before they marry, and what the modern version is of a "wali," or guardian, a figure in Islam who is supposed to help women pick the right husbands.

"Generation gaps, cultural differences when people from the United States marry someone from overseas, interfaith marriage -- the issue of marriage is one of the most important in Islam here right now," Magid said. "Anytime there is a program at the mosque about these things, it's completely packed."

A commonly discussed problem is the surplus of single Muslim women. This stems partly from Islamic practice's broader acceptance of men marrying outside the faith than women.

Daisy Khan, a New York activist who counsels couples with her husband, an imam, organized a Valentine's Day event for singles -- 15 men and 63 women attended. Although she used to feel torn about interfaith marriage, she is now concerned that women will either be left unmarried or leave their faith. She tries to connect Muslim couples but also thinks pious Muslim women should be able to marry non-Muslims who also are pious.

"It's my obligation to shift a little, to give a little because it's important for them to stay within the faith," she said. "You have to clear up the mandate of: What is God's mission? I see God's hand in this."

In a Pew Research Center poll of Muslim Americans released last year, 54 percent of women said interfaith marriage is acceptable, compared with 70 percent of men.

Marriage practices are a growing issue among Muslims in part because melding into the mainstream is increasingly their goal, experts said. This is true for many first- and second-generation Muslims and U.S.-born converts. It is a complex balance, however, testing relations between parents and children and within new couples.

Many Muslim dating and marriage traditions exist to promote sexual reserve, particularly among women, but in 2008, separation between potential mates has lost its cultural moorings.

"It creates these experiences of weirdness where you're more comfortable with [non-Muslim] John at work than Mohamed" at the mosque, said Zarinah El Amin-Naeem, 28, an anthropologist.

The Muslim Alliance in North America, a national group made up largely of prominent black Muslims, held its first national conference in the fall and named marriage reform as one of its top priorities. A concern is the rush into marriage, either to have sex or because structures that once screened potential spouses, such as close-knit, large families and cultural isolation, have diminished.

"In Islamic culture there is no dating and no kind of middle ground, so the sense is, if this person is a good person, let's get married. The impulse isn't to prolong a courting relationship. Our advocacy is it needs to be prolonged somewhat," said Ihsan Bagby, co-founder of the Muslim Alliance in North America.

Issues related to marriage play out differently across the Muslim American community. The problem of strangers marrying is more common among African American Muslims than among immigrant families because many are converts and might not have families involved in their faith lives, experts said. Tensions surrounding interfaith marriages are more common among Muslims from South Asia, who tend to be more traditional, than those from Africa or Turkey.

And, of course, many Muslims are secular or are liberal about their faith, perhaps using a Muslim dating Web site such as naseeb.com but not agonizing over premarital sex or seeking a wali. Even for non-observant Muslims, however, "when it comes to the issue of marriage, because Muslim families tend to be so involved, there is more tradition involved than in other aspects of their lives," said Dalia Mogahed, executive director of the Gallup Center for Muslim Studies.

Interfaith marriage is a huge topic with wide cultural ramifications. Because Islamic tradition, not law, holds that a Muslim man can intermarry but not a woman, a substantial gender gap in the dating pool has opened as children and grandchildren of immigrants have grown up.

The Koran says for Muslims to marry "believers," the meaning of which has long been the source of great debate but has been widely interpreted to include Christians and Jews. Although the Koran does not address the gender issue directly, tradition has held that women are more easily subjugated, and therefore a Muslim woman in an interfaith marriage could be forced by a Christian or Jew to live and raise her children outside of Islam, while a Muslim man in an interfaith relationship would be able to control the household's faith.

Abdullahi Ahmed An-Na'im, an Islamic family law expert at Emory University, argues that gender dynamics have changed in a way that makes interfaith marriage more reasonable under Islamic tradition. "In social reality today, men are not dominant in the marriage relationship. The rationale of historic rule is no longer valid," he said. "But people are not willing to accept this. This is a major source of tensions."

Qur'an Shakir, who runs national Muslim dating events and writes a column on Muslim dating, said a lot of people debate the value of a dowry today, even as a symbolic commitment, while others think that the position of wali should be updated to be more like a relationship mentor and less like a guardian, and that men should have walis, too.

"People need to be open to different interpretations of the Koran," she said.

http://www.wwrn.org/article.php?idd=28701&...on=4&sec=33

Great Information VW...I have learned so much from your postings on this topic.

Thanks so much!

[bhajishah 4]

OP and everyone else leaving out one major thing. Hubby is not second or third generation. hubby is muslim from muslim country. its not a religion to him. Its a way of life as he knows it. Best to get on or off the bus. or at least try to get on the bus and never worry about getting off ever again. kapish and of course he will be in charge of house. I fyou go with your heart go all the way. and forgo whatever ####### mom or anyone else says. understand. hope it helps.. peace cindi shah

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Not unaware of that. I am of the old country myself. These issues are not foreign there, and are debated and challenged all over the Muslim world. I worked for decades with human rights lawyers on legal cases involving gender issues, challenged policies that disallowed rights to women, and did it all using the sharia, and Islamic history. This tradition is not of Islam, but of culture, and cultures change. Change is already happening in many areas due to the dilgent work of scholars and human rights workers armed with scripture and law. People are changing, I've seen it happening. All things are possible wit Allah. The world is His, not ours.

Punkmada and asamayoa, thank you. All knowledge is from Allah.

Edited August 27, 2008 by Virtual wife

[bhajishah 4]

well it doesnt sound likeher fiance on the same page as you are. and i was responding to her situation and divert from hardship and conflict. I dont think she wants to be a martry for the coz. hope it works out. Allah knows. made woman for companion to adam.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

This was posted in May, and, going by her posts, they are still together. Something must be clicking.

[IAMX 3,055]

This was posted in May, and, going by her posts, they are still together. Something must be clicking.

How many clicks of a trigger does it take to fire?

[b4byd09 0]

Help urself.

Traditionally, only in one case can a Muslim woman marry outside of Islam, and this is the case where the woman is guilty of sexual transgression, as denoted in Sura An Nur of the Qur'an: "The adulterer may marry only an adulteress or an idolatress; and the adulteress may marry only an adulterer or an idolater…" [24:3] As stated in this verse, this rule equally applies to the Muslim man who is guilty of this same offense.

[bhajishah 4]

Im leaving , they trying to change Koran and nature, to me thats sacrilige.. gnight Bhai salaams

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I'm curious. Why do those who have doubts about the ability of Muslims to relate closely with ahl al kitab, even to marry among them, regardless of gender, think that the Prophet didn't punish Muslim women who remained married for decades to peaceful non-Muslim men during the time of the Prophet? When the early ummah was under attack, why did Allah send the Prophet and some of his followers to be under the protection of the Christian king of Abysinnia, who treated them kindly? Why was the second person Muhammad consulted about his first vision a Christian relation? Why did Allah allow Abu Bakr to engage his young Muslim daughter to a non-Muslim? Why did the Prophet consult the Talmud under Allah's direction? The history if the early ummah is not one of segregation without provocation. And much of that provocation was economic, not spiritual. The pagans were hostile toward the Muslims mostly because they threatened Mecca's position as a producer of pagan idols passed along trade routes.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Im leaving , they trying to change Koran and nature, to me thats sacrilige.. gnight Bhai salaams

No one is changing the Quran. That is Allah's domain, as is nature. He protects both, and says many times in His sacred text that men and woman are of LIKE nature. What will be changed is how issues of justice are interpreted in Muslim practice, and that is His Will. You can either be part of the solution or part of the problem. Your choice.