Visa Fraud- Using B-2 with intention to immigrate

[eric_and_teresa 10]

All it takes is about 30 minutes of me reading around this place before I'm reminded why it's not worth my time to post here any longer. What a bunch of whining dolts.

Sorry Rebecca, but why are you still posting then? Do yourself a favor and stop reading this thread if it bothers you that much.

Geez!

Kezzie was my friend. We journeyed together. If you don't freaking mind, I think I'll state my piece and state it freely. If you dont' like it, then maybe you are the one who shouldn't be reading.

Please re-read my post.

Where did I say you should not post whatever you want? Or you should not stand up for your friends?

YOU said it's not worth your time posting here, yet you keep on coming back and posting some more. Why are you still wasting your time? That was my question

No, I don't freaking mind. But don't come here on your high horse to tell us what a waste it is to post here while you keep on doing it.

Eric -

When you've been able to truly post in the upper forums with legitimate, right on advice which actually helps people in their visa journey, rather than whining down here in the lower forums, then you can feel free to ask me about my 'high horse'.

I'm not Eric. I'm Teresa.

If I think something its unfair, you can be sure I'll say it as MANY times as I want. Committing visa fraud and getting away with it is UNFAIR in my book. I'll post about here in the "lower forums" and anywhere else if I have the chance. And if that is whining to you, then too bad.

You are not even a lawyer, but you have definitely pick the arrogant style many lawyers have.

I've been posting for over 2 years and I think I've posted MANY legitimate advice and helped others. Its not your job to be calling up on that.

You still haven't answered why are you still wasting your time here, in the "lower forums", lecturing us ignorants of the law.

[eric_and_teresa 10]

We should fight to make everyones process easier rather than argue that everyone should have eaqually long, difficult waits.

When has anyone said that? When did anyone say we should all have difficulties and wait longer?

Edited August 5, 2008 by eric_and_teresa

[Gaby&Talbert 1]

We should fight to make everyones process easier rather than argue that everyone should have eaqually long, difficult waits.

When has anyone said that? When did anyone say we should all have difficulties and wait longer?

there are plenty of people on vj that think everyone should have to wait out of the US during the process because they had to wait.

[rebeccajo 14]

I'm not Eric. I'm Teresa.

If I think something its unfair, you can be sure I'll say it as MANY times as I want. Committing visa fraud and getting away with it is UNFAIR in my book. I'll post about here in the "lower forums" and anywhere else if I have the chance. And if that is whining to you, then too bad.

You are not even a lawyer, but you have definitely pick the arrogant style many lawyers have.

I've been posting for over 2 years and I think I've posted MANY legitimate advice and helped others. Its not your job to be calling up on that.

You still haven't answered why are you still wasting your time here, in the "lower forums", lecturing us ignorants of the law.

Teresa - Yes you can post all you like, as many times as you like, about the commission of 'fraud'.

Whether or not you are correct in your interpretation, however, is a horse of a different color.

After two years of posting and helping others, I'm somewhat amazed you haven't come to that conclusion by now.

[Captain Ewok 1,891]

Come on folks lets try to retain a higher level of respect for each other. Thanks.

[Gemmie 142]

Using the excuse that you aren't the 'first person' to make the same mistake hardly makes the commentary any less offensive. Let this be a lesson to you and all reading that every case is different. There are always details we don't know. Generic opinions about certain immigration paths are not only unfair but they are wrong, IMO.

Yes people on VJ complain about the whole process; about others being approved before them; or about other countries being easier. Those comments are usually made out of either ignorance of the process or unwillingness to learn. They are also often made by persons who believe that the only path to life in the US is the same 'high road' they themselves took. Not a very charitable attitude, in my book. It also displays complete ignorance of the law.

Well that's the thing, my commentary had no reason to be offensive. I never said anything personal about Kez, I was stating an opinion about whether the law should be changed and the negative impact that it has, as well as the positive. I didn't do anything different than anyone else stating their opinion on the matter, only because I happened to respond to Jon (again, not even in a personal way, it was about the system), you jump all over me claiming that I'm accusing them of being fraudsters when I specifically said that I had no problem with them doing what they did.

I understand that Kez was your friend and that your journey together must have created a special bond between you; and also why you would find it extremely offensive if you see someone attacking her. However, I did nothing of the sort.

Teresa has every right to post her thoughts that committing visa fraud is unfair (which is all she has said) and if you think they're wrong, fair enough. But no one was belittlling any advice that you have given over the years before you jumped on that one either. Believe it or not, I do have a high level of respect for people like yourself that have coped throughout WHATEVER personal journey you have had to make while still offering help to others.

[Johnnie J 0]

why do people hate when someone else has an easier path then them? This is like hating someone because they won the lottery. So what if they come here on a B1/B2 and get married. The end result is the same, they just don't have to be apart during the process.

IMO the law should be changed to give everyone who applies for a spousal visa a temp visitor visa to stay with their spouse during the immigration process. What benefit is their in making you spend 6 months to a year or more apart waiting on USCIS? It actually might be better for couples to have to live together waiting on USCIS to see if the marriage is going to work or not. It might even give the USC a chance to see for themselves if their spouse is only after a greencard?

They should also change the law for conditional greencard from 2 years to 3 years and then give the choice of applying for citizenship or LPR.

I agree.

Some people here are mad at the fact that people under WVP should have to leave if they want to marry..why???

The fact is that the countries under the WVP have less inmigrants here in the US. Most Europeans will stay in Europe than come here to the US. The truth of the matter is tighter enforcement policies have to apply with countries that inmigrate on a daily basis here to the US. Countries in Latin America, Asia and Africa have alot of people applying to come here legally and too many come illegally.

If you come on a B1/B2 should you have to leave if you fall in love? is that really fair? It's not a bypass of the law or a loophole it's just a process.

[eric_and_teresa 10]

If you come on a B1/B2 should you have to leave if you fall in love? is that really fair? It's not a bypass of the law or a loophole it's just a process.

No, of course you should not leave to get married if you were already here and then decided to get married. We are not discussing that here. I'm not against people who were here on a B-2 or student visa or work visas and fell in love and decided to stay. I'm against of those who were fully aware that they will have to lie at the POE saying "i came to visit" when they knew, they were coming to get married AND apply for AOS. I'm talking about people who sell their properties, before "visiting" on a B-2, quit their jobs, made all kind of arrangements because they knew they were immigrating to the U.S.

Please read my original post again, I've explained it countless times through out this whole thread. I'm not against everyone who got married on a B-2 and applied for AOS. I'm against couples who were fully aware of the fact that they were committing visa fraud and they got away with it! The couple I was talking about on my original thread made plans ahead to use the B-2 to marry in the U.S. and apply for AOS before entering the country, just because the K-1 did not suit their personal plans.

I've known 4 cases that did this, and YES it was Visa Fraud and they got away with it!These were couples who were close to me (3 college friends and 1 co-worker) and I know they sold their houses, sold their cars, gave away their pets, quit their jobs and made all the arrangements here before they traveled with the B-2. They arrived at the POE and they said "I came to do some shopping, I came to a work meeting, I came to visit my aunt, etc, etc". They lied and got away with it.

I don't know about EVERY single couple who applied for AOS while on a B-2 but I know that for these 4 couples and the one from my original post it was visa fraud, and that is what I've been saying its UNFAIR.

Edited August 6, 2008 by eric_and_teresa

[rebeccajo 14]

If you come on a B1/B2 should you have to leave if you fall in love? is that really fair? It's not a bypass of the law or a loophole it's just a process.

No, of course you should not leave to get married if you were already here and then decided to get married. We are not discussing that here. I'm not against people who were here on a B-2 or student visa or work visas and fell in love and decided to stay. I'm against of those who were fully aware that they will have to lie at the POE saying "i came to visit" when they knew, they were coming to get married AND apply for AOS. I'm talking about people who sell their properties, before "visiting" on a B-2, quit their jobs, made all kind of arrangements because they knew they were immigrating to the U.S.

Please read my original post again, I've explained it countless times through out this whole thread. I'm not against everyone who got married on a B-2 and applied for AOS. I'm against couples who were fully aware of the fact that they were committing visa fraud and they got away with it! The couple I was talking about on my original thread made plans ahead to use the B-2 to marry in the U.S. and apply for AOS before entering the country, just because the K-1 did not suit their personal plans.

I've known 4 cases that did this, and YES it was Visa Fraud and they got away with it!These were couples who were close to me (3 college friends and 1 co-worker) and I know they sold their houses, sold their cars, gave away their pets, quit their jobs and made all the arrangements here before they traveled with the B-2. They arrived at the POE and they said "I came to do some shopping, I came to a work meeting, I came to visit my aunt, etc, etc". They lied and got away with it.

I don't know about EVERY single couple who applied for AOS while on a B-2 but I know that for these 4 couples and the one from my original post it was visa fraud, and that is what I've been saying its UNFAIR.

Many things in life are unfair.

Just how would you suggest USCIS sift the wheat from the chaff? How do they ascertain who 'lied' and who didn't?

If there is going to be flexibility for those who did not 'lie', how should the 'loophole' be closed against those who do 'lie' without hurting those who didn't 'lie'?

And just what is a 'lie' anyway? As Jon said, some could say he and Kez had 'intent'.

I understand that Kez was your friend and that your journey together must have created a special bond between you; and also why you would find it extremely offensive if you see someone attacking her. However, I did nothing of the sort.

I think you should carefully re-read what you originally wrote. Especially the part where you spoke to John about he and K using the 'loophole'. Rather condescending in my opinion.

Edited August 6, 2008 by rebeccajo

[tmma 467]

O/T Hi there RebeccaJo! Glad to see you back.

[Gemmie 142]

I think you should carefully re-read what you originally wrote. Especially the part where you spoke to John about he and K using the 'loophole'. Rather condescending in my opinion.

You mean where I said "I understand why you took advantage of the loophole, I really do. It makes it so much easier. I just don't like how it makes it so easy to commit fraud with a loophole like that."

Nothing there is implying that Jon and Kez committed fraud themselves. I even followed that up with examples of how one could use the option to commit fraud.

I even sent Jon a message to let him know that I meant nothing personal since others had taken it that way and that I have no problem with the route they took, because they were genuine, i. e, not committing visa fraud. If it's the term "loophole" that is the issue, well I'm sorry that you took such offense at a term often used to describe an option that jumps around an unwanted outcome. (loop·hole n. 1. A way of escaping a difficulty, especially an omission or ambiguity in the wording of a contract or law that provides a means of evading compliance.) - I never disagreed that this was a LEGAL OPTION, or claimed that it was wrong to use this if you are genuinely in love whilst in the US. I was just pointing out the negative side of it.

My intention was never to attack others, and I haven't done so, even when others were quick to snap off their own judgemental lines about what I was implying.

Anyway, getting this back on topic...

There are people that are going to be hurt no matter what. If the legal option remains, people will get to be with their loved ones in the US while they adjust their status and that's fantastic... however, it opens up the door for fraudsters that had every intent to lie at the POE and immigrate. If the legal option is banned, it might make it harder to premeditate a short-cut, though couples will be forced to be seperated. Perhaps with some kind of regulation, there can be a balance, though how they can do that, I'm not sure. As I said earlier, it's hard to prove/disprove something that may or may not be in your intentions/thoughts.

[LaL 418]

... however, it opens up the door for fraudsters that had every intent to lie at the POE and immigrate. If the legal option is banned, it might make it harder to premeditate a short-cut, though couples will be forced to be seperated. Perhaps with some kind of regulation, there can be a balance, though how they can do that, I'm not sure. As I said earlier, it's hard to prove/disprove something that may or may not be in your intentions/thoughts.

Here is what I find interesting. People wax on about how unfair it is for the loophole to exist, then to clarify that its more of a matter of "fraudsters" (not just you Gemmie). If the concenr is fraud, I jut don't see it. Look at the countries who use VWP. Getting a family based visa to immigrate from most of those places is simply a formality.

Does it suck that the US takes in fraudsters? Sure - but look at any situation in which a USC was applying for a visa only to have their SO move here, and then they figure out how used they were. Sunshine & roses during separation and feeling as though the government is keeping them apart (some with very difficult journeys), then only to be deserted once they step foot in the US. Point being - fraud will happen regardless. Stopping this one "loophole" isn't going to reduce fraud by much if at all and is simply a drop in the bucket, not to mention that if you are here on a VWP the adjustee is from a "friendly" country or if on a B2 they had their background checked - doesn't seem to be too much worry in those individuals.

So closing this loophole would do what, exactly? I guess it would stop much complaining about what people feel is jumping in line.

[antda 13]

Hi Everyone,

Hmmm..From personal experience: Does being questioned at the border for 2 hours or so be considered scrutiny? What a nightmare that was, indeed, when all I wanted to do was only to visit my boyfriend/fiancee (now husband) at that time. When I came over the border from Canada on a B2 Visa, we did not have any prior intention to marry and it was last-minute that we decided to get married here in the US during that visit. For me, the thought of going back to Canada wasn't an option, more so realizing how much I missed my husband at times we were apart, and especially after how they poorly treated us at the border. Needless to say, it was the right decision for us to do the B2 to AOS, and I don't regret it and I don't see that it's illegal. Yes, along the way we did have many immigration hardships and sacrifices too, but it was worth it in the end. Most importantly, the happy ending of this experience: we're still happily married and happily living together legally in the US now, even though we had to go through the "shortcut" (though I didn't think it was a shortcut) route to get to this point.

Ant

I do not believe it would be fair to prevent B-2 holders to apply for AOS, as I believe there might some (very few, IMO) who did not have prior intention to marry AND immigrate using their B-2. But the USCIS should definitely subject B-2 holders who change their status to more scrutinity.

Edited August 7, 2008 by AntandD

[Mags 112]

I understand that Kez was your friend and that your journey together must have created a special bond between you; and also why you would find it extremely offensive if you see someone attacking her. However, I did nothing of the sort.

Kezzie was just about one of THE most honest people here on VJ. To even speak her name in a sentence connected with visa fraud is offensive.

Just my 2cents.

[Gemmie 142]

I understand that Kez was your friend and that your journey together must have created a special bond between you; and also why you would find it extremely offensive if you see someone attacking her. However, I did nothing of the sort.

Kezzie was just about one of THE most honest people here on VJ. To even speak her name in a sentence connected with visa fraud is offensive.

Just my 2cents.

Well then you'll be glad I never did that, only when defending myself by saying she was NOT a fraudster.

If that's not okay either, than I quit right here.