Visa Fraud- Using B-2 with intention to immigrate

[Ed+Cindy 1]

Has your fiancee tried entering under the B-2 to visit you. If she can get past POE, then at least you could be together for the remaining time :)

best of luck!!!

dvc

She was denied entry on B1/B2 last Oct after we filed the I-129F because of 'intent'. It was a load of #######, as she possessed all the tries home AND even got the B visa from Auckland just so that she could spend more than the 90 days WVP timeframe in the US with me. Auckland knew of her relationship and had no issue granting the B visa. CBP treated us very poorly and treated her like a criminal. We have had it up to and beyond the limit with US immigration. I am 4 months from re-located back to Auckland and saying to hell with the US (I moved back to the US last summer).

[iLoveAPolishGirl 0]

Oh, that's just terrible!!

Could you provide a description of what happened at POE? Also, if they treated you / her improperly ate POE, there is a complaint process described on the CBP website.

Additionally, you might want to try to appeal the reason for denial to have her visa cleared. I assume this is also why you are held up in security (?)

I'm so sorry to hear this!!!

Best of luck to you both!!

dvc

[Ed+Cindy 1]

Oh, that's just terrible!!

Could you provide a description of what happened at POE? Also, if they treated you / her improperly ate POE, there is a complaint process described on the CBP website.

Additionally, you might want to try to appeal the reason for denial to have her visa cleared. I assume this is also why you are held up in security (?)

I'm so sorry to hear this!!!

Best of luck to you both!!

dvc

I complained to everyone...(they are all under Homeland Security though). I'm pretty sure my complaints went from the mailing envelope to the trash bin..

B visa doesn't matter because they won't let her in on it anyway...she has to wait for her K-1.

You can't appeal tourist entry denials.

[iLoveAPolishGirl 0]

You can't appeal tourist entry denials.

I don't believe that's quite true. I'm pretty sure I've read of a process... of course it's after the fact, but I think, if successful, u can restore the B visa by expunging the reason for denial. I could be wrong tho

Also, btw, have you tried contacting your congressman / senator for intervention? And / or a lawyer?

I would like to hear what happened tho, in hopes that we might learn from your experience

dvc

[rebeccajo 14]

I'm guessing you are assuming that there are no security checks run on a B2 visa applicant?

I'm not guessing anything. I'm well aware of the B-2 process, as my fiance went through it just last fall.

I KNOW there are security checks. Although irrelevant to my main point, that only reinforces my entire argument!

dvc

Perhaps I am not following your 'argument' then.

[bantam 0]

First of all I would like to say I really love VJ, this site has helped me so much and I couldn't have adjusted without the advice I have read on this website. I'm not a very e-social person so I tend to lurk but I felt compelled to post for once.

I adjusted from VWP, we had absolutely no intention of getting married before we came to visit my wife's parents, however while we were away from home the situation changed so that we could not go back. We were living in China at a time when the Olympic torch was coming to America the Tibetan protests sparked massive changes to their visa policies and attitudes towards Americans. We could have gone back but our visas would expire within months with a low chance for an extension until after the Olympics. We've been together for 4 years and have spent a sum total of one week apart during that time. Before we decided to move anywhere else we got married while we were in America so her parents could attend. After that we weighed up our options, we didn't really want to go back to China after being jerked around so we looked into what we could do here or in England which would cause the least disruption to our lives. We read carefully the terms on the back of my I-94W, looked up the codes and found that I could just adjust status here and we would not have to be separated! Perfect!

Next I thought I would look at some advice on our kind of situation and I found VJ, the vitriol and intolerance for those who adjust from VWP/B2 was upsetting, I thought this tone would reflect in the USCIS attitude come interview time and I really thought about quitting the AOS packet and leaving my wife for England and going the K-3 route. I was reassured though when I read some actual stories from the minority of people here who actually adjusted from VWP (thank you for posting your stories). All of the nay saying seems to come from the people who have done it the "right" way (K-1/K-3) and are upset to the point of spreading misinformation to put off people who have all the rights to legally adjust status here in America. This isn't a loophole, it's the law and I followed it. It wasn't illegal for us to marry here, it wasn't illegal for me to adjust here, if it were they could have easily rejected us instead of giving us a quick 10 minute interview.

P.S. I could have done it the "right" way, spend money on a plane ticket home, more money for the K-3, more money living separately from my wife while still trying to support her, plane ticket back and then the $1010 on top of that to do the actual AOS but if you were in my situation you'd call yourself a fool, right?

[iLoveAPolishGirl 0]

bantam -- I'd say you did it the 'right' way

rebeccajo, I'll recap ...

I said: "It certainly is not national security issue for those who can easily enter the USA on a visitor (or any other) visa or VWP, etc."

The reason I say that is BECAUSE anyone who has been admitted *legally* obviously has had sufficient security checks to satisfy the US gov't, regardless of approach used for entry. And, since it is perfectly legal to AOS from a B or VWP visit *if there was no intent on entry*, there is NO increased national security based on K or other marriage petitions in these cases.

So, the whole intent thing is a stupid, cruel joke.

dvc

Edited April 25, 2009 by iLoveAPolishGirl

[Dakine 26]

Think positive!

Those coming and adjusting help speed up the visa process for the "straight shooters" other than at the AOS stage.

Less petitions in NVC and Service centers!

[rebeccajo 14]

bantam -- I'd say you did it the 'right' way

rebeccajo, I'll recap ...

I said: "It certainly is not national security issue for those who can easily enter the USA on a visitor (or any other) visa or VWP, etc."

The reason I say that is BECAUSE anyone who has been admitted *legally* obviously has had sufficient security checks to satisfy the US gov't, regardless of approach used for entry. And, since it is perfectly legal to AOS from a B or VWP visit *if there was no intent on entry*, there is NO increased national security based on K or other marriage petitions in these cases.

So, the whole intent thing is a stupid, cruel joke.

dvc

But.....the security checks run at adjustment are DIFFERENT checks than what the consulate ran. IBIS is run again and FBI checks are done. FBI checks are not done at the consular level.

IMO I would argue the opposite of what you are saying. I kind of think that National Security is more compromised in these cases. When adjusting from within the US, one doesn't have to produce a police report. The IBIS check that USCIS runs for adjustment only picks up the names of aliens who are "persons of interest" in their home country - major thugs or would-be terrorists. What I would contend is that if the US is going to be so lax when adjusting status, they be equally lax at the consulate. If you don't give a damn about that half gram of marijuana for a stateside adjustment, then stop punishing people at the consular level for the same offense. *I feel compelled to add I'm being cheeky here*

Anywho - "intent" as it is applied to cases by Adjudicating Officers in a marriage-based case is "intent to evade immigration law via marriage to a US citizen". IMO this language is two-fold - intent at the border on last entry, and legitimacy of the marriage.

Face it - the alien is already in the US. CBP let them in and there unless there is some compelling evidence the marriage was pulled off to specifically keep the alien in the country, then the AO isn't likely to deny the case solely based upon the last entry. BUT if there's a whiff that the marriage isn't legit then trouble will be afoot.

After several years of observation, it's my opinion that AO's put the legitimacy of the marriage under the microscope and don't worry much about what happened at point of entry. That horse is already out of the barn. But they can stop an alien from fraudulently adjusting via either illegal collaboration with a USC or by hoodwinking the USC.

*PS - I'm not picking a fight with you. Just discussing.

Edited April 25, 2009 by rebeccajo

[iLoveAPolishGirl 0]

rebeccajo,

I understand what you are saying and don't disagree that the checks are harder for marriage based visas (Ks, etc.) And, I'm not trying to fight either... just trying to make the point that, regardless of the national security benefits that *might* be achieved via the marriage-related visas, the gov't pretty well defeats that benefit given the current state of things BECAUSE, the very people they would mostly likely want to keep out are very likely the same people who are probably most likely to not use that process!

It's those of us who are attempting to work within the system ... and I would argue, those least likely to be committing fraud ... that end up getting screwed by suffering through a longer, more intimidating process.

Look at how many people marry and adjust off B / VWP entries via AOS. How many are lying about intent? Who knows? Only the stupid ones would admit it For USCIS to discover and substantiate such intent is basically impossible if the couple work the system intelligently!!

And, it's much harder and more expensive to remove the spouse of a USC from the country than to simply keep someone from entering in the first place.

In short, IMO, the current system is a broken mess that fails to achieve its intended purpose and is most hostile, expensive and discouraging to exactly those honest "play fair" types that I would think are the ones they should most want to encourage.

dvc

Edited April 26, 2009 by iLoveAPolishGirl

[iLoveAPolishGirl 0]

Think positive!

Those coming and adjusting help speed up the visa process for the "straight shooters" other than at the AOS stage.

Less petitions in NVC and Service centers!

You know, I hate to say it, but you are probably right

Doesn't make me like it any more tho :D

dvc

[rebeccajo 14]

I guess I don't care about categorizing couples by whether they played 'fair' or not.

After all, if they choose to 'not play fair' (by your definition), the risk is on their shoulders. And the hassle. As some have stated here so eloquently, making a swift decision to stay in the US without returning home to tie up loose ends and commitments can be quite daunting. And, I think a lot of VWP/B2 adjustees have their fair share of sleepless nights worrying about whether they will be one of the ones of whom an example is made.

I've sort of gotten to the point where I begin to wonder if adjusting from the VWP and visitors' visa shouldn't be eliminated. I guess it could be done - constitutionally. Other nations have stopped the practice. Why couldn't we? I'm not a lawyer, so I don't really care to debate it. I do know this - I intensely dislike any practices of my country which attempt to keep 'foreigners' out. I'm still that wide-eyed optimist who believes our country has been bettered by past immigrants. I still believe in giving us the tired, the hungry and those who are heavy laden.

The system is convoluted, complicated and tiresome. I'm over four years into it so I've got my definite opinions about what I think could be improved and what I think is necessarily done. Bottom line for me - if the couple is legit, I say let them be happy and united in the land where freedom rings. I really don't care a lot about what was on somebody's mind the last time they crossed the border.

Edited April 26, 2009 by rebeccajo

[Ed+Cindy 1]

It's those of us who are attempting to work within the system ... and I would argue, those least likely to be committing fraud ... that end up getting screwed by suffering through a longer, more intimidating process.

And, it's much harder and more expensive to remove the spouse of a USC from the country than to simply keep someone from entering in the first place.

In short, IMO, the current system is a broken mess that fails to achieve its intended purpose and is most hostile, expensive and discouraging to exactly those honest "play fair" types that I would think are the ones they should most want to encourage.

dvc

Very well put DVC.

We are an honest couple (lived together for years) and are now being treated like criminals because we chose to do things the 'honest' way. I would never do this again. The emotional costs have pretty much ruined us, let alone the fact we have spent what is a mortgage down payment to make up for what this country has forced us to do.

rebeccajo, you say in the land where freedom rings

I am sorry, but of all the developed western countries, this is the least 'free' one.

Edited April 26, 2009 by Ed+Cindy

[rebeccajo 14]

It's those of us who are attempting to work within the system ... and I would argue, those least likely to be committing fraud ... that end up getting screwed by suffering through a longer, more intimidating process.

And, it's much harder and more expensive to remove the spouse of a USC from the country than to simply keep someone from entering in the first place.

In short, IMO, the current system is a broken mess that fails to achieve its intended purpose and is most hostile, expensive and discouraging to exactly those honest "play fair" types that I would think are the ones they should most want to encourage.

dvc

Very well put DVC.

We are an honest couple (lived together for years) and are now being treated like criminals because we chose to do things the 'honest' way. I would never do this again. The emotional costs have pretty much ruined us, let alone the fact we have spent what is a mortgage down payment to make up for what this country has forced us to do.

rebeccajo, you say in the land where freedom rings

I am sorry, but of all the developed western countries, this is the least 'free' one.

Ed -

I don't know whether you mean 'free' as in 'freedoms' or 'cost'.

At any rate, I somehow have managed to still love my country and believe in its founding principles whilst coming to have a profound appreciation for the protections offered citizens of other nations (especially the United Kingdom as that is the one I have studied the most). I would idly note that NONE of the 'developed western nations' I presume you infer have lax immigration policy. There is virtually nowhere on earth you can decide to live (if you are foreign to those shores) without having to show your hand - and your wallet.

As I said earlier, the system is convoluted and you won't find me offering excuses for its shortcomings. That being said, it dismays me to think that the 'emotional costs' of our system have nearly ruined your relationship. I guess I've had my moments where I felt that way, but they were during my husband's adjustment of status and he was struggling to find a good job on just an EAD (like you we were caught in security clearance). As I am sure you have already noticed, our visa processing was remarkably swift, so I have not personally experienced interminable delays whilst separated. However, without being cheeky or unkind, if the US immigration system and its delays have nearly cost you your relationship, I would urge you and your fiancee to re-evaluate what life together in the US is going to be like for you as an international couple. Adjusting as husband and wife is always a challenge; add the adjustments of your wife to a new way of life and culture PLUS more immigration processing down the road - and what you have is a recipe for a marriage that is not your typical 'vanilla' relationship.

And THAT part of your life would have come its way no matter how you married. Via a visa or without.

[iLoveAPolishGirl 0]

I am sorry, but of all the developed western countries, this is the least 'free' one.

Well, I wouldn't go QUITE that far, but.......

dvc

Edited April 27, 2009 by iLoveAPolishGirl