McCain predicts Iraq war over by 2013

[GaryC 7]

nm..

Edited May 18, 2008 by GaryC

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

Maybe I missed it but how exactly does McCain substantiate his prediction? Did he just consult some crystal ball?

Dog, do you hold Obama to the same standard? He is making some pretty grandiose promises himself.

McCain's timeline on foreign policy is the most substantially realistic. Obama's and Clinton's foreign policy is the dangerous and not in the best interest of our country or the world even though popular opinion says otherwise. Iraq is on the Western model of revolution and during this time of transitional democracy they are highly susceptiable to radicals over taking the moderates and establishing a more coercive dictatorship than Saddam's Regiem. It's very scary because they have followed every step of the Western Model and the last thing I want as a concerned USC is the spread of Islamic fundamentalism. That is one thing the further leftist liberals need to get a grasp on.

So bascially the leftist liberals need to put out the fire created by the rightwing conservatives? Keep in mind extreme Islamic fundamentalists were not acting as terrorists or with Al Qaeda support in Iraq before the war

It's not about who puts out whose fire in regards to US politics but all people in th US should be involved with their politics and acquire as much information as possible to make educated choices. Our fore fathers where highly educated and brilliant men who guided this country in the democratic process. It's about the argument for a Democratic Peace. Established mature Democracies do not go to war with each other. Transitional Democracies however do because they are susceptible to the radicals over throwing the moderates. The moderates do not have the murderous thug mentality to mobilize quickly enough to stop the radicals. Radicals have a clear vision during transitional democracies because the moderates are often times trying to figure things out. The idea between the Democratic Peace in regards to Iraq is that once it becomes a mature established democracy and the people feel safe and secure and the radicals are no longer fighting but cooperating then there will not be war with them anymore. There are lots of reasons for this and I could go into it but then I would just be regurgitating the literature that I already posted for those that are curious. Please read the literature it explains it so much better than I do because these people who study war and the causes of war and violence and revolution are 's are it!

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Maybe I missed it but how exactly does McCain substantiate his prediction? Did he just consult some crystal ball?

"Iraq is a functioning democracy, although still suffering from the lingering effects of decades of tyranny and centuries of sectarian tension," McCain said.

It appears he is paying attention to the Democratic Peace argument by Political Scientists rather than viewing into some crystal ball. He's setting a realistic time line.

Where does McCain reference any of this?

I can't do the work for you Mr. Big Dog. You're going to have to read the articles to discover it for yourself.

Unless it's written somewhere that this is the basis for McCain's prediction, then reading isn't going to do the trick. Are you somehow involved in the foreign policy part of McCain's campaign? If not, then how do you know how he arrived at the prediction he made unless he details it.

I have a minor in foreign and international affairs. I'm not on anybodies campaign but knowing what I know now out of all the candidates McCain's updated foreign policy is the most realistic. My educated guess how he arrived at his "timeline", remember the word "prediction" is the journalists word, because I know the Democratic Peace literature and that politicians are paying attention to it now. If you get a chance to read any of it and have some understanding of it it would be interesting to know your view point from there.

A minor in foreign and international affairs, eh? Cute.

I could if I wanted to but I ain't getting into a "my ####### is bigger than your #######" argument here. Suffice it to say that while you make assumptions which may well be valid you really have no idea what McCain based his statements on.

I used to share the leftist liberal ideals until I learned more about world politics and the causes of war if that tells you anything. If you're not willing to read the literature that's your perogrative.

Your literature is irrelevant in regards to the question I posed.

Maybe I missed it but how exactly does McCain substantiate his prediction? Did he just consult some crystal ball?

Dog, do you hold Obama to the same standard? He is making some pretty grandiose promises himself.

He has made a similar prediction? Can you provide some evidence of that?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Maybe I missed it but how exactly does McCain substantiate his prediction? Did he just consult some crystal ball?

Dog, do you hold Obama to the same standard? He is making some pretty grandiose promises himself.

McCain's timeline on foreign policy is the most substantially realistic. Obama's and Clinton's foreign policy is the dangerous and not in the best interest of our country or the world even though popular opinion says otherwise. Iraq is on the Western model of revolution and during this time of transitional democracy they are highly susceptiable to radicals over taking the moderates and establishing a more coercive dictatorship than Saddam's Regiem. It's very scary because they have followed every step of the Western Model and the last thing I want as a concerned USC is the spread of Islamic fundamentalism. That is one thing the further leftist liberals need to get a grasp on.

It takes a bit more than a minor in foreign affairs to make a statement like that and be taken seriously.

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

Maybe I missed it but how exactly does McCain substantiate his prediction? Did he just consult some crystal ball?

Dog, do you hold Obama to the same standard? He is making some pretty grandiose promises himself.

McCain's timeline on foreign policy is the most substantially realistic. Obama's and Clinton's foreign policy is the dangerous and not in the best interest of our country or the world even though popular opinion says otherwise. Iraq is on the Western model of revolution and during this time of transitional democracy they are highly susceptiable to radicals over taking the moderates and establishing a more coercive dictatorship than Saddam's Regiem. It's very scary because they have followed every step of the Western Model and the last thing I want as a concerned USC is the spread of Islamic fundamentalism. That is one thing the further leftist liberals need to get a grasp on.

It takes a bit more than a minor in foreign affairs to make a statement like that and be taken seriously.

Look I don't know anything about you but I'm sorry Mr. Big Dog that you can't see the relevance of what I am saying nor read the literature that I am backing it up on. Again it's your prerogative but it's a dangerous one to remain ignorant because of stubbornness. Even Bill Clinton has cited the words "Democratic Peace" and based choices in his administration on it. Politicians are paying attention to the Democratic Peace literature done by the brightest and that is something that can not be discredited even if you don't want to listen to someone who had a minor in it that is just cluing you and others in on it. Laugh all you want but really it's inappropriate.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Maybe I missed it but how exactly does McCain substantiate his prediction? Did he just consult some crystal ball?

Dog, do you hold Obama to the same standard? He is making some pretty grandiose promises himself.

McCain's timeline on foreign policy is the most substantially realistic. Obama's and Clinton's foreign policy is the dangerous and not in the best interest of our country or the world even though popular opinion says otherwise. Iraq is on the Western model of revolution and during this time of transitional democracy they are highly susceptiable to radicals over taking the moderates and establishing a more coercive dictatorship than Saddam's Regiem. It's very scary because they have followed every step of the Western Model and the last thing I want as a concerned USC is the spread of Islamic fundamentalism. That is one thing the further leftist liberals need to get a grasp on.

It takes a bit more than a minor in foreign affairs to make a statement like that and be taken seriously.

Look I don't know anything about you but I'm sorry Mr. Big Dog that you can't see the relevance of what I am saying nor read the literature that I am backing it up on. Again it's your prerogative but it's a dangerous one to remain ignorant because of stubbornness. Even Bill Clinton has cited the words "Democratic Peace" and based choices in his administration on it. Politicians are paying attention to the Democratic Peace literature done by the brightest and that is something that can not be discredited even if you don't want to listen to someone who had a minor in it that is just cluing you and others in on it. Laugh all you want but really it's inappropriate.

Look, I understand that you are very excited about a certain concept that you recently learned about in school. And yet, you have done nothing to support your original assertion that McCain is somehow basing his predictions on the particular concept you cite. Nothing other than assumptions on your part. Smoke and mirrors. You gotta do better than that. As you correctly said, you know nothing about me. If you did, I suspect you wouldn't try and have this debate with me. Again, I am not getting into a "my ####### is bigger than your #######" debate with a minor in foreign affairs. Let's just say I made it a good bit further down that road.

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

Maybe I missed it but how exactly does McCain substantiate his prediction? Did he just consult some crystal ball?

Dog, do you hold Obama to the same standard? He is making some pretty grandiose promises himself.

McCain's timeline on foreign policy is the most substantially realistic. Obama's and Clinton's foreign policy is the dangerous and not in the best interest of our country or the world even though popular opinion says otherwise. Iraq is on the Western model of revolution and during this time of transitional democracy they are highly susceptiable to radicals over taking the moderates and establishing a more coercive dictatorship than Saddam's Regiem. It's very scary because they have followed every step of the Western Model and the last thing I want as a concerned USC is the spread of Islamic fundamentalism. That is one thing the further leftist liberals need to get a grasp on.

It takes a bit more than a minor in foreign affairs to make a statement like that and be taken seriously.

Look I don't know anything about you but I'm sorry Mr. Big Dog that you can't see the relevance of what I am saying nor read the literature that I am backing it up on. Again it's your prerogative but it's a dangerous one to remain ignorant because of stubbornness. Even Bill Clinton has cited the words "Democratic Peace" and based choices in his administration on it. Politicians are paying attention to the Democratic Peace literature done by the brightest and that is something that can not be discredited even if you don't want to listen to someone who had a minor in it that is just cluing you and others in on it. Laugh all you want but really it's inappropriate.

Look, I understand that you are very excited about a certain concept that you recently learned about in school. And yet, you have done nothing to support your original assertion that McCain is somehow basing his predictions on the particular concept you cite. Nothing other than assumptions on your part. Smoke and mirrors. You gotta do better than that. As you correctly said, you know nothing about me. If you did, I suspect you wouldn't try and have this debate with me. Again, I am not getting into a "my ####### is bigger than your #######" debate with a minor in foreign affairs. Let's just say I made it a good bit further down that road.

Then please feel free to enlighten and educate the population with ideas other than comments about crystal balls. Much appreciated.

[GaryC 7]

Maybe I missed it but how exactly does McCain substantiate his prediction? Did he just consult some crystal ball?

Dog, do you hold Obama to the same standard? He is making some pretty grandiose promises himself.

He has made a similar prediction? Can you provide some evidence of that?

His stated policy:

# Bring Our Troops Home: Obama will immediately begin to remove our troops from Iraq. He will remove one to two combat brigades each month, and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months. Obama will make it clear that we will not build any permanent bases in Iraq. He will keep some troops in Iraq to protect our embassy and diplomats; if al Qaeda attempts to build a base within Iraq, he will keep troops in Iraq or elsewhere in the region to carry out targeted strikes on al Qaeda.

# Press Iraq's leaders to reconcile: The best way to press Iraq's leaders to take responsibility for their future is to make it clear that we are leaving. As we remove our troops, Obama will engage representatives from all levels of Iraqi society – in and out of government – to seek a new accord on Iraq's Constitution and governance. The United Nations will play a central role in this convention, which should not adjourn until a new national accord is reached addressing tough questions like federalism and oil revenue-sharing.

# Regional Diplomacy: Obama will launch the most aggressive diplomatic effort in recent American history to reach a new compact on the stability of Iraq and the Middle East. This effort will include all of Iraq's neighbors – including Iran and Syria. This compact will aim to secure Iraq's borders; keep neighboring countries from meddling inside Iraq; isolate al Qaeda; support reconciliation among Iraq's sectarian groups; and provide financial support for Iraq's reconstruction.

Not any substance there, only talk of diplomacy. In fact this sounds very dangerous. Pull out and hope he can talk everyone into playing nice. Pretty naive if you ask me.

[Nagishkaw 510]

Maybe I missed it but how exactly does McCain substantiate his prediction? Did he just consult some crystal ball?

Dog, do you hold Obama to the same standard? He is making some pretty grandiose promises himself.

He has made a similar prediction? Can you provide some evidence of that?

His stated policy:

# Bring Our Troops Home: Obama will immediately begin to remove our troops from Iraq. He will remove one to two combat brigades each month, and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months. Obama will make it clear that we will not build any permanent bases in Iraq. He will keep some troops in Iraq to protect our embassy and diplomats; if al Qaeda attempts to build a base within Iraq, he will keep troops in Iraq or elsewhere in the region to carry out targeted strikes on al Qaeda.

# Press Iraq's leaders to reconcile: The best way to press Iraq's leaders to take responsibility for their future is to make it clear that we are leaving. As we remove our troops, Obama will engage representatives from all levels of Iraqi society – in and out of government – to seek a new accord on Iraq's Constitution and governance. The United Nations will play a central role in this convention, which should not adjourn until a new national accord is reached addressing tough questions like federalism and oil revenue-sharing.

# Regional Diplomacy: Obama will launch the most aggressive diplomatic effort in recent American history to reach a new compact on the stability of Iraq and the Middle East. This effort will include all of Iraq's neighbors – including Iran and Syria. This compact will aim to secure Iraq's borders; keep neighboring countries from meddling inside Iraq; isolate al Qaeda; support reconciliation among Iraq's sectarian groups; and provide financial support for Iraq's reconstruction.

Not any substance there, only talk of diplomacy. In fact this sounds very dangerous. Pull out and hope he can talk everyone into playing nice. Pretty naive if you ask me.

That's never gonna happen.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Maybe I missed it but how exactly does McCain substantiate his prediction? Did he just consult some crystal ball?

Dog, do you hold Obama to the same standard? He is making some pretty grandiose promises himself.

He has made a similar prediction? Can you provide some evidence of that?

His stated policy:

# Bring Our Troops Home: Obama will immediately begin to remove our troops from Iraq. He will remove one to two combat brigades each month, and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months. Obama will make it clear that we will not build any permanent bases in Iraq. He will keep some troops in Iraq to protect our embassy and diplomats; if al Qaeda attempts to build a base within Iraq, he will keep troops in Iraq or elsewhere in the region to carry out targeted strikes on al Qaeda.

# Press Iraq's leaders to reconcile: The best way to press Iraq's leaders to take responsibility for their future is to make it clear that we are leaving. As we remove our troops, Obama will engage representatives from all levels of Iraqi society – in and out of government – to seek a new accord on Iraq's Constitution and governance. The United Nations will play a central role in this convention, which should not adjourn until a new national accord is reached addressing tough questions like federalism and oil revenue-sharing.

# Regional Diplomacy: Obama will launch the most aggressive diplomatic effort in recent American history to reach a new compact on the stability of Iraq and the Middle East. This effort will include all of Iraq's neighbors – including Iran and Syria. This compact will aim to secure Iraq's borders; keep neighboring countries from meddling inside Iraq; isolate al Qaeda; support reconciliation among Iraq's sectarian groups; and provide financial support for Iraq's reconstruction.

Not any substance there, only talk of diplomacy. In fact this sounds very dangerous. Pull out and hope he can talk everyone into playing nice. Pretty naive if you ask me.

I do see a different strategy and policy than the failed one we've pursued the last 5+ years but I don't see any unsubstantiated prediction of the situation in Iraq in 2013 based on nothing but essentially a continuation of the failed policy of the Bush administration.

[GaryC 7]

Maybe I missed it but how exactly does McCain substantiate his prediction? Did he just consult some crystal ball?

Dog, do you hold Obama to the same standard? He is making some pretty grandiose promises himself.

He has made a similar prediction? Can you provide some evidence of that?

His stated policy:

# Bring Our Troops Home: Obama will immediately begin to remove our troops from Iraq. He will remove one to two combat brigades each month, and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months. Obama will make it clear that we will not build any permanent bases in Iraq. He will keep some troops in Iraq to protect our embassy and diplomats; if al Qaeda attempts to build a base within Iraq, he will keep troops in Iraq or elsewhere in the region to carry out targeted strikes on al Qaeda.

# Press Iraq's leaders to reconcile: The best way to press Iraq's leaders to take responsibility for their future is to make it clear that we are leaving. As we remove our troops, Obama will engage representatives from all levels of Iraqi society – in and out of government – to seek a new accord on Iraq's Constitution and governance. The United Nations will play a central role in this convention, which should not adjourn until a new national accord is reached addressing tough questions like federalism and oil revenue-sharing.

# Regional Diplomacy: Obama will launch the most aggressive diplomatic effort in recent American history to reach a new compact on the stability of Iraq and the Middle East. This effort will include all of Iraq's neighbors – including Iran and Syria. This compact will aim to secure Iraq's borders; keep neighboring countries from meddling inside Iraq; isolate al Qaeda; support reconciliation among Iraq's sectarian groups; and provide financial support for Iraq's reconstruction.

Not any substance there, only talk of diplomacy. In fact this sounds very dangerous. Pull out and hope he can talk everyone into playing nice. Pretty naive if you ask me.

I do see a different strategy and policy than the failed one we've pursued the last 5+ years but I don't see any unsubstantiated prediction of the situation in Iraq in 2013 based on nothing but essentially a continuation of the failed policy of the Bush administration.

A different strategy? What strategy? All he is proposing is we pull out wholesale and then talk. Think about it, do you really think we can talk Iran out of training terrorists? If you do I have a bridge for sale.

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

Maybe I missed it but how exactly does McCain substantiate his prediction? Did he just consult some crystal ball?

Dog, do you hold Obama to the same standard? He is making some pretty grandiose promises himself.

He has made a similar prediction? Can you provide some evidence of that?

His stated policy:

# Bring Our Troops Home: Obama will immediately begin to remove our troops from Iraq. He will remove one to two combat brigades each month, and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months. Obama will make it clear that we will not build any permanent bases in Iraq. He will keep some troops in Iraq to protect our embassy and diplomats; if al Qaeda attempts to build a base within Iraq, he will keep troops in Iraq or elsewhere in the region to carry out targeted strikes on al Qaeda.

# Press Iraq's leaders to reconcile: The best way to press Iraq's leaders to take responsibility for their future is to make it clear that we are leaving. As we remove our troops, Obama will engage representatives from all levels of Iraqi society – in and out of government – to seek a new accord on Iraq's Constitution and governance. The United Nations will play a central role in this convention, which should not adjourn until a new national accord is reached addressing tough questions like federalism and oil revenue-sharing.

# Regional Diplomacy: Obama will launch the most aggressive diplomatic effort in recent American history to reach a new compact on the stability of Iraq and the Middle East. This effort will include all of Iraq's neighbors – including Iran and Syria. This compact will aim to secure Iraq's borders; keep neighboring countries from meddling inside Iraq; isolate al Qaeda; support reconciliation among Iraq's sectarian groups; and provide financial support for Iraq's reconstruction.

Not any substance there, only talk of diplomacy. In fact this sounds very dangerous. Pull out and hope he can talk everyone into playing nice. Pretty naive if you ask me.

I do see a different strategy and policy than the failed one we've pursued the last 5+ years but I don't see any unsubstantiated prediction of the situation in Iraq in 2013 based on nothing but essentially a continuation of the failed policy of the Bush administration.

What part of the policy hasn't failed other than public opinion?

On another note...I took a break and had another idea come to me about McCain's message of the war ending in 2013. This may help satisfy your question and help you understand what position they are taking and what they're really saying. If McCain is elected he would serve from 2009-2012. So what he is really saying is if you elect me then we're going to remain in the war in Iraq and I may only be serving one term and the person who is elected for 2013 will have to deal with getting us out of Iraq. So instead of the Democratic Peace argument, which holds it's merit on scholarly research more than the fact I studied it and know it, McCain's campaign is really saying if you elect me expect that we're going to stay in the war and not pull out.

Edited May 18, 2008 by Olivia*

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Maybe I missed it but how exactly does McCain substantiate his prediction? Did he just consult some crystal ball?

Dog, do you hold Obama to the same standard? He is making some pretty grandiose promises himself.

He has made a similar prediction? Can you provide some evidence of that?

His stated policy:

# Bring Our Troops Home: Obama will immediately begin to remove our troops from Iraq. He will remove one to two combat brigades each month, and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months. Obama will make it clear that we will not build any permanent bases in Iraq. He will keep some troops in Iraq to protect our embassy and diplomats; if al Qaeda attempts to build a base within Iraq, he will keep troops in Iraq or elsewhere in the region to carry out targeted strikes on al Qaeda.

# Press Iraq's leaders to reconcile: The best way to press Iraq's leaders to take responsibility for their future is to make it clear that we are leaving. As we remove our troops, Obama will engage representatives from all levels of Iraqi society – in and out of government – to seek a new accord on Iraq's Constitution and governance. The United Nations will play a central role in this convention, which should not adjourn until a new national accord is reached addressing tough questions like federalism and oil revenue-sharing.

# Regional Diplomacy: Obama will launch the most aggressive diplomatic effort in recent American history to reach a new compact on the stability of Iraq and the Middle East. This effort will include all of Iraq's neighbors – including Iran and Syria. This compact will aim to secure Iraq's borders; keep neighboring countries from meddling inside Iraq; isolate al Qaeda; support reconciliation among Iraq's sectarian groups; and provide financial support for Iraq's reconstruction.

Not any substance there, only talk of diplomacy. In fact this sounds very dangerous. Pull out and hope he can talk everyone into playing nice. Pretty naive if you ask me.

I do see a different strategy and policy than the failed one we've pursued the last 5+ years but I don't see any unsubstantiated prediction of the situation in Iraq in 2013 based on nothing but essentially a continuation of the failed policy of the Bush administration.

What part of the policy hasn't failed other than public opinion?

On another note...I took a break and had another idea come to me about McCain's message of the war ending in 2013. This may help satisfy your question and help you understand what position they are taking and what they're really saying. If McCain is elected he would serve from 2009-2012. So what he is really saying is if you elect me then we're going to remain in the war in Iraq and I may only be serving one term and the person who is elected for 2013 will have to deal with getting us out of Iraq. So instead of the Democratic Peace argument, which holds it's merit on scholarly research more than the fact I studied it and know it, McCain's campaign is really saying if you elect me expect that we're going to stay in the war and not pull out.

Read his statement again. He's talking Jan 2013 - coincidentally the end of his term if he were elected. Close but no cigar.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Maybe I missed it but how exactly does McCain substantiate his prediction? Did he just consult some crystal ball?

Dog, do you hold Obama to the same standard? He is making some pretty grandiose promises himself.

He has made a similar prediction? Can you provide some evidence of that?

His stated policy:

# Bring Our Troops Home: Obama will immediately begin to remove our troops from Iraq. He will remove one to two combat brigades each month, and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months. Obama will make it clear that we will not build any permanent bases in Iraq. He will keep some troops in Iraq to protect our embassy and diplomats; if al Qaeda attempts to build a base within Iraq, he will keep troops in Iraq or elsewhere in the region to carry out targeted strikes on al Qaeda.

# Press Iraq's leaders to reconcile: The best way to press Iraq's leaders to take responsibility for their future is to make it clear that we are leaving. As we remove our troops, Obama will engage representatives from all levels of Iraqi society – in and out of government – to seek a new accord on Iraq's Constitution and governance. The United Nations will play a central role in this convention, which should not adjourn until a new national accord is reached addressing tough questions like federalism and oil revenue-sharing.

# Regional Diplomacy: Obama will launch the most aggressive diplomatic effort in recent American history to reach a new compact on the stability of Iraq and the Middle East. This effort will include all of Iraq's neighbors – including Iran and Syria. This compact will aim to secure Iraq's borders; keep neighboring countries from meddling inside Iraq; isolate al Qaeda; support reconciliation among Iraq's sectarian groups; and provide financial support for Iraq's reconstruction.

Not any substance there, only talk of diplomacy. In fact this sounds very dangerous. Pull out and hope he can talk everyone into playing nice. Pretty naive if you ask me.

I do see a different strategy and policy than the failed one we've pursued the last 5+ years but I don't see any unsubstantiated prediction of the situation in Iraq in 2013 based on nothing but essentially a continuation of the failed policy of the Bush administration.

A different strategy? What strategy? All he is proposing is we pull out wholesale and then talk. Think about it, do you really think we can talk Iran out of training terrorists? If you do I have a bridge for sale.

Well, Gary, you can't seem to see the forest for the trees. The situation cannot be solved militarily but must be resolved politically. On a multilateral basis involving both our allies as well as the representatives of the region. The blockheaded approach that Bush has been pursuing and that McSame wants to continue is a failure. All it yielded was a premature and quite embarrassing photo op, trillions of dollars of cost that my kids and their great-grand children will still be busy paying off and tens of thousands of lives needlessly wasted and hundreds of thousands more destroyed. Bush's strategery won't yield a true "Mission Accomplished" moment. Not in 2013 and not later. McSame doesn't understand that. Which is why there will be President come Jan '09 that will make a clear cut from the failed policies of Bush & Co.

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

Maybe I missed it but how exactly does McCain substantiate his prediction? Did he just consult some crystal ball?

Dog, do you hold Obama to the same standard? He is making some pretty grandiose promises himself.

He has made a similar prediction? Can you provide some evidence of that?

His stated policy:

# Bring Our Troops Home: Obama will immediately begin to remove our troops from Iraq. He will remove one to two combat brigades each month, and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months. Obama will make it clear that we will not build any permanent bases in Iraq. He will keep some troops in Iraq to protect our embassy and diplomats; if al Qaeda attempts to build a base within Iraq, he will keep troops in Iraq or elsewhere in the region to carry out targeted strikes on al Qaeda.

# Press Iraq's leaders to reconcile: The best way to press Iraq's leaders to take responsibility for their future is to make it clear that we are leaving. As we remove our troops, Obama will engage representatives from all levels of Iraqi society – in and out of government – to seek a new accord on Iraq's Constitution and governance. The United Nations will play a central role in this convention, which should not adjourn until a new national accord is reached addressing tough questions like federalism and oil revenue-sharing.

# Regional Diplomacy: Obama will launch the most aggressive diplomatic effort in recent American history to reach a new compact on the stability of Iraq and the Middle East. This effort will include all of Iraq's neighbors – including Iran and Syria. This compact will aim to secure Iraq's borders; keep neighboring countries from meddling inside Iraq; isolate al Qaeda; support reconciliation among Iraq's sectarian groups; and provide financial support for Iraq's reconstruction.

Not any substance there, only talk of diplomacy. In fact this sounds very dangerous. Pull out and hope he can talk everyone into playing nice. Pretty naive if you ask me.

I do see a different strategy and policy than the failed one we've pursued the last 5+ years but I don't see any unsubstantiated prediction of the situation in Iraq in 2013 based on nothing but essentially a continuation of the failed policy of the Bush administration.

A different strategy? What strategy? All he is proposing is we pull out wholesale and then talk. Think about it, do you really think we can talk Iran out of training terrorists? If you do I have a bridge for sale.

Well, Gary, you can't seem to see the forest for the trees. The situation cannot be solved militarily but must be resolved politically. On a multilateral basis involving both our allies as well as the representatives of the region. The blockheaded approach that Bush has been pursuing and that McSame wants to continue is a failure. All it yielded was a premature and quite embarrassing photo op, trillions of dollars of cost that my kids and their great-grand children will still be busy paying off and tens of thousands of lives needlessly wasted and hundreds of thousands more destroyed. Bush's strategery won't yield a true "Mission Accomplished" moment. Not in 2013 and not later. McSame doesn't understand that. Which is why there will be President come Jan '09 that will make a clear cut from the failed policies of Bush & Co.

Do you even know what you're talking about? Our congress voted almost unanimously to go to war with Iraq. These are our government elected representatives that "We the People of the United States" put into office to represent us. "We the People of the United States" are the government so if there is any failure then it lies with the people. The ultimate failure here is the reflection on the people of the United States who do not politically educate themselves and elect government officials to represent them when they don't know little about politics and the politicians they are voting for political platforms. Politics is war without blood and war is politics with blood. Before you can even get to the kind of multilateral strategy you are talking about you first have to look at the dyadic level of militarized interstate disputes. As Nagi said in her post Obama's plan will never happen and especially not in the first term of office. People that believe that are living a pipe dream. Not only that it is proven that an unseasoned leader is tested more in their first term by world leaders than seasoned leaders. If we put this person in office that you're talking about we're asking for a world wide whoop azz. The consequences would be severe to us but 100,000 worse than if we stayed and rode this out for those generations in the future that you're referring to. I encourage you to beef up on your literature and stop being a lemming man.