Dealing with SO's opinions about future children

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Sorry if you've already mentioned this but has he become more religious since he's been back this time around? Also I know he's always been a dad but now that he's physically present everyday in your son's life (cutie patootie btw) maybe that's changed him. I've seen a few marriages where the guy isn't religious in the least bit and then WHAMMO as soon as he becomes a daddy he's going to the mosque everyday, growin' the beard, etc.

I wouldn't say that he's become more religious because he doesn't pray at all. He is definitely not a practicing Muslim which is what grates my cheese about this. I always knew that when and if we had children they would have Muslims names and would be raised not eating pork and observing Islamic holidays. Even while we were apart I would ask him what things I could do to help raise our son in an Islamic way in his absence. I played the Adan often for him (just wasn't possible everyday) and have done more in reality than my husband to promote Islamic traditions and beliefs than my husband has. He's been real apathetic about the whole thing actually. He talks all the time about how important it is for our children to be raised as Muslims, but all the while, he's not walkin' the walk....know what I mean?

Maybe its just something deep inside him about how he wants his daughter to be raised. I dont think its isolated in MENA. Have you heard the country song "Cleaning my gun."? Maybe he just has deep seated beliefs about how women should be raised. It hadnt come up before because maybe you never talked about it.

You can buy books on gender selection to avoid this altogether though ( I think if you eat alot of grains before conception you will get a boy LOL)

[allousa 1]

He's been real apathetic about the whole thing actually. He talks all the time about how important it is for our children to be raised as Muslims, but all the while, he's not walkin' the walk....know what I mean?

It sounds like he's more concerned with what other people think of him as a Muslim than any real beliefs. This is not an insult, from my experience this seems pretty common. Dogma and culture often seem to supersede faith.

Hmmm, that makes alot of sense. While he has said in the past that he doesn't care what other people think, he often makes comments about "what everyone else's lives are like", you know, comparing us to other people. I think you might just be right on this.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

never underestimate wahrania's obsession.

Yes I singlehandedly wrote the book on gender behavior in MENA. Oh give it a rest Ta Me..

Its reality....in virginity inspection, honor killings and the day to day life for a girl living there. They don't have the freedom of choices that American women do . I doubt that my husband is going to give a daughter of mine the freedom that I had as a young woman. I knew that when I married him. Its just different when you have a daughter and you dream of her going away to college and living in a dorm and doing something with her life and her dad refuses to let her leave the home. If he is already saying his daughter won't date and his daughter isn't here yet, its a pretty good indicator of what he will do in the future. I think Allousa knows this and thats why she is really sad. She knows if she has a daughter that she might not live a carefree life and have lots of choices. Allousa is thinking about what the future holds unlike some of us who think simply with our hearts and not our heads..

I really must correct you here. My sister-in-law who WAS born in Gaza, lived mostly in Morocco, but now resides in Gaza has been DIVORCED AND REMARRIED since living in Gaza. She is actually the one that is working in the family right now and suffice to say that she has alot of choices. Help me to understand your basis of this information? While I wouldn't doubt that this happens in some places and NOT JUST IN GAZA, mind you, this is NOT the life of ALL women there.

Where are you getting your facts.....FAUX NEWS????

I think the fact that she is the only one "working" that gives her alot of latitude. If she never worked,left the house or provided money to the family, she may have not had that kind of independence. I may be off. Just a thought... Remember working women in the United States and all over the world have always had a little more say in what happened in their lives since they are not dependent on someone else to pay their upkeep and their board

[sandinista! 1,816]

it's not about mena gender behaviour wahrania, it's about your constant use of arab women as pawns to further whatever whacked out obsessions and prejudices you hold. when you're not busy trashing them, you're portraying them as perpetually helpless victims who all face identical problems. it's dehumanizing and insulting and very, very boring after all this time.

[♥JP♥ 5]

I really can't decide if this is a religious issue with him because he's not saying that it is. When I tried to ask him questions about how he would handle things in the future, he kind of just shut down and said "I don't know".

I don't consider myself to be religious at all and I still plan on teaching my children not to give themselves away until marriage. That is such a sacred gift, that in my opinion, transcends religion. I would hope that I teach them right, BUT, if they weren't to be a virgin before marriage, am I going to excommunicate myself from them...NO!

I don't think its religous it's culture and not limied to Palestinians. Most arabs feel this way and are raised this way. Thre are plenty of non-mena countries that have the same beliefs. I have co-workers here who recently had babies and swear they are not letting a guy near their daughter ever.

I think first of all, there is that natural father instinct to want to protect and then there is the fact that this is socially not acceptable in mena regardless if you are muslim or christian. That doesn't mean it doesnt happen there, it surely does, and it happens everything but its just not the norm.

[Staashi 371]

Not letting your teenagers (girls or boys) date is ridiculous. They will end up doing so behind your back and probably hate you for it. Then they will marry the wrong person. Hell, if you'll try to prevent them from dating, you might as well just arrange a marriage for them. That's another archaic religious tradition.

Religion can be a good source of values and beliefs, but some of the customs some religions expect you to follow are downright stupid. This goes for all religions, I'm not singling any one out.

I tend to agree with Kid Brooklyn here. All AMERICAN children, assuming that you raise them here, are going to want to date...but even now it isn't so much dating as it is hanging out. They hang out and do stuff with anyone - nothing is off limits anymore. Scary! And I think you will have a hard time trying to limit any type of behavior on your son or your daughter (if you ever have one), as they will be able to throw it in your face that "mommy was knocked up before she married dad". Remember, kids have a way of figuring this stuff out...moreover, no one is better at calling parents out on their mistakes then their kids. Not saying your son is a mistake, but your kids will learn about your mistakes...try to help them learn from them.

Aside from that, culture clashes and religious clashes are some of the most difficult things to deal with...and in the midst of loving someone we get caught up and say that the clash is something we'll deal with later. When later finally comes and the clash is staring us dead in our face, we get blindsided. This is one thing that I have to commend the Catholic Church on. Before we got married we had to do premarital classes and take a huge test that asked 200 questions about how we felt on so many different subjects. Let me tell you, there was nothing like sitting there with my now husband and my priest, with my priest saying, "did you know he/she feels this way about this or that?" Many things we were alike on...but when things were glaring - Lord it was like a mirror in our face. At the time, we thought oh well, we'll get through that later...well later has arrived, and it can be a slap in your face...and we're both Catholic!

[♥JP♥ 5]

I really can't decide if this is a religious issue with him because he's not saying that it is. When I tried to ask him questions about how he would handle things in the future, he kind of just shut down and said "I don't know".

I don't consider myself to be religious at all and I still plan on teaching my children not to give themselves away until marriage. That is such a sacred gift, that in my opinion, transcends religion. I would hope that I teach them right, BUT, if they weren't to be a virgin before marriage, am I going to excommunicate myself from them...NO!

You maybe didnt notice this because you never lived around a large community of palestinians but the reality is that life for a palestinian girl is very different for a boy. Two stories come to mind. My palestinian ex once told me that a neighbor saw his sister talking to a boy she later ended up marrying. His mom came to him and told him to beat up his sister. He promptly obliged breaking her nose and leaving her black and blue all over her body but the family honor was restored. He also told me the story of a girl who agreed to go on a date with one of his friends. The friend put her in a van in ramallah. In the van, several men waited for her then raped her then threw her out of the van. She had it coming because she was a girl who "dated". Its not fair but its reality that girls and boys have different lives in palestinian families.She was never able to tell anyone out of fear they would blame her then kill her.Liberal families, conservative families.. in between families. Girls and boys have different sets of rules. Period. Like it or not. Its just sad that somehow you having a baby is contingent on all of this. Its tragic. You deserve to have a baby..He is the one living in this country. He needs to adapt to the life here not the other way around.

All your objectiveness will never erase the cultural reality or double standards that are held within this particular community. They highly value female virginity and integrity. Boys can do what they want and girls can't.

I can't even emphasize what a crock of sh!t this entire post is! I have been around Palestinians my ENTIRE life and none are this way. Half of my family members are Palestinian. Wahrania, you know nothing about this culture or community and everything you say is based on your VERY LIMITED experiance with you ex.

Also, don't assume or think that any man or woman from any country is going to abadon their beliefs or values just because they moved to the USA.

[allousa 1]

I really can't decide if this is a religious issue with him because he's not saying that it is. When I tried to ask him questions about how he would handle things in the future, he kind of just shut down and said "I don't know".

I don't consider myself to be religious at all and I still plan on teaching my children not to give themselves away until marriage. That is such a sacred gift, that in my opinion, transcends religion. I would hope that I teach them right, BUT, if they weren't to be a virgin before marriage, am I going to excommunicate myself from them...NO!

I don't think its religous it's culture and not limied to Palestinians. Most arabs feel this way and are raised this way. Thre are plenty of non-mena countries that have the same beliefs. I have co-workers here who recently had babies and swear they are not letting a guy near their daughter ever.

I think first of all, there is that natural father instinct to want to protect and then there is the fact that this is socially not acceptable in mena regardless if you are muslim or christian. That doesn't mean it doesnt happen there, it surely does, and it happens everything but its just not the norm.

I really do appreciate your insight, JP. It is helping me to maybe understand the issue a little better.

[♥JP♥ 5]

I really can't decide if this is a religious issue with him because he's not saying that it is. When I tried to ask him questions about how he would handle things in the future, he kind of just shut down and said "I don't know".

I don't consider myself to be religious at all and I still plan on teaching my children not to give themselves away until marriage. That is such a sacred gift, that in my opinion, transcends religion. I would hope that I teach them right, BUT, if they weren't to be a virgin before marriage, am I going to excommunicate myself from them...NO!

I don't think its religous it's culture and not limied to Palestinians. Most arabs feel this way and are raised this way. Thre are plenty of non-mena countries that have the same beliefs. I have co-workers here who recently had babies and swear they are not letting a guy near their daughter ever.

I think first of all, there is that natural father instinct to want to protect and then there is the fact that this is socially not acceptable in mena regardless if you are muslim or christian. That doesn't mean it doesnt happen there, it surely does, and it happens everything but its just not the norm.

I really do appreciate your insight, JP. It is helping me to maybe understand the issue a little better.

Anytime honey. I grew up this way and so did arab girl I know. Our parents were all immigrants here and everything was new to them. When I was going to school here, all most everyone was american too which made it harder. I think nowadays, its even easier because my husbands younger cousins all have a ton of girls in their classes from different backgrounds that can relate because their families are the same way.

You know 16 year old cousin once had a conversation with my niece who is very close to me. My niece asked her (no one put her up to this) if she had a boyfriend. The 16 yr olds response was...no and I dont want one. I could never do that to my family, it would hurt them so much. I was really surprised to hear that because I thought she would have been full of resentment. But actually she is very close to her mother, and I think thats why she has a better understanding of it.

I was able to cope with it because I was surrounded by girls who were in the same situation as I was. It didn't make me feel so odd.

[allousa 1]

I in NO WAY want to dismiss my husband's culture. I have always intended to make that a part of what we teach our son because that is WHO my husband is! I am quite proud of all that his family has done to survive despite what has happened to them (fleeing from Gaza in the 60's). I would never want to devalue his heritage in any way.

I definitely agree that once kids get older, they will definitely hold us to the fire about what is fair and judge us for our past behavior. I think most of us have done it.

I just want my husband to see that while his values about this are understandable, but realize how difficult it will be to enforce...especially when both of us were not raised this way.

I am going to try and discuss it with him from the standpoint that I understand he's trying to be protective and that "dating" does not mean sex and see how it goes.

So many of you have given me some great advice and info to go on. :):)

[♥JP♥ 5]

I in NO WAY want to dismiss my husband's culture. I have always intended to make that a part of what we teach our son because that is WHO my husband is! I am quite proud of all that his family has done to survive despite what has happened to them (fleeing from Gaza in the 60's). I would never want to devalue his heritage in any way.

I definitely agree that once kids get older, they will definitely hold us to the fire about what is fair and judge us for our past behavior. I think most of us have done it.

I just want my husband to see that while his values about this are understandable, but realize how difficult it will be to enforce...especially when both of us were not raised this way.

I am going to try and discuss it with him from the standpoint that I understand he's trying to be protective and that "dating" does not mean sex and see how it goes.

So many of you have given me some great advice and info to go on. :):)

See thats the problem. You just won't be able to get him see it your way. My dad, until today, will not admit that he is ok with half the stuff he let me do. Also heritage and what has family has gone through in Gaza are totally different than the social norms they are used to.

He most likely not admit he is ok with it even if he is. Kinda like what you don't know won't hurt you...

[Jenn! 918]

I in NO WAY want to dismiss my husband's culture. I have always intended to make that a part of what we teach our son because that is WHO my husband is! I am quite proud of all that his family has done to survive despite what has happened to them (fleeing from Gaza in the 60's). I would never want to devalue his heritage in any way.

I definitely agree that once kids get older, they will definitely hold us to the fire about what is fair and judge us for our past behavior. I think most of us have done it.

I just want my husband to see that while his values about this are understandable, but realize how difficult it will be to enforce...especially when both of us were not raised this way.

I am going to try and discuss it with him from the standpoint that I understand he's trying to be protective and that "dating" does not mean sex and see how it goes.

So many of you have given me some great advice and info to go on. :):)

See thats the problem. You just won't be able to get him see it your way. My dad, until today, will not admit that he is ok with half the stuff he let me do. Also heritage and what has family has gone through in Gaza are totally different than the social norms they are used to.

He most likely not admit he is ok with it even if he is. Kinda like what you don't know won't hurt you...

Why why why why why

This drives me insane!

Then again, I have no pride.

[♥JP♥ 5]

I in NO WAY want to dismiss my husband's culture. I have always intended to make that a part of what we teach our son because that is WHO my husband is! I am quite proud of all that his family has done to survive despite what has happened to them (fleeing from Gaza in the 60's). I would never want to devalue his heritage in any way.

I definitely agree that once kids get older, they will definitely hold us to the fire about what is fair and judge us for our past behavior. I think most of us have done it.

I just want my husband to see that while his values about this are understandable, but realize how difficult it will be to enforce...especially when both of us were not raised this way.

I am going to try and discuss it with him from the standpoint that I understand he's trying to be protective and that "dating" does not mean sex and see how it goes.

So many of you have given me some great advice and info to go on. :):)

See thats the problem. You just won't be able to get him see it your way. My dad, until today, will not admit that he is ok with half the stuff he let me do. Also heritage and what has family has gone through in Gaza are totally different than the social norms they are used to.

He most likely not admit he is ok with it even if he is. Kinda like what you don't know won't hurt you...

Why why why why why

This drives me insane!

Then again, I have no pride.

LOL...don't you know??? People will talk. This is what I heard my entire life. "WHAT WILL PEOPLE BACK HOME SAY?????" If I had a dollar for everytime I heard that....

[sj5 4]

i'm saving $ for guns.

[sarahaziz 0]

This is my situation though, I have made a personal decision that I do not want to get pregnant after I turn 40. I'm 37 now. So the "window of opportunity" is small if you know what I mean. In that way, I feel like this does have an effect on our immediate future.

Hicham was in the U.S. for 6 years before he got stuck in Morocco, so he knows the culture and everything. He chose to come back to it as well. So, I honestly don't know if he will loosen up.

Even if we don't resolve it immediately, I know that I'm going to be thinking about it alot and will build alot of resentment towards him about this. I just see this as such hypocritical and unfair behavior. It really disturbs me, too, because I've never seen this side of him before.

I am TOTALLY appreciating everyone's input by the way.

I am SSSSSSSSOOOOOOOOOOOOOO glad to not be debating someone's "Algerian-ness".

LOL oh gosh