Dealing with SO's opinions about future children

[allousa 1]

I really shy away from talking about details of our personal life other than immigration issues, however, I've made an exception this time because I'm so confused about something that has come about with Hicham and I.

We've definitely had our "bumps" in getting readjusted to life together and we've been working that out pretty well. We seemed to have leveled out until Hicham said something last night that stopped me in my tracks.

As many of you know, we already have one child together (a boy) that was not planned. We agreed before we ever got married that our children would be raised as Muslims, however, I told him that I would never cover and more than likely would never convert to Islam (I'm agnostic). He agreed with this.

We recently discussed having more children and he said he didn't want to have another immediately, but perhaps in the next couple of years, we might try again. I was in complete agreement with this.

Last night, I made a comment about "if we ever had a girl" and he mumbled something and said that she would NEVER date. Well, this opened up a whole big azz can of worms. He never said that it had to do with Islam, but that he didn't want her "bringing boyfriends home". He never mentioned anything about our son not being able to date. He often makes references about his future with "the women".

We got into a huge fight about this. I asked him:

How is our daughter going to find a suitable husband WITHOUT being able to date?

How are you going to keep your daughter from sneaking behind your back if she's not allowed to date?

How are you going to let your son date and NOT your daughter?

How is our daughter going to deal with being in public school and surrounded by images of "dating" and not be allowed to participate?

He got very defensive and couldn't answer any of these questions. I am perfectly in agreement about teaching our children to respect themselves and wait to share themselves with their spouse. I have NO PROBLEM with that. But I feel that we MUST meet these people who they choose to have in their lives so that we can help them determine if they are a suitable match.

My husband has never really displayed this type of behavior before about things being different for men/women. I was completely taken aback by this. It has made me feel like we should NEVER have any more children due to the fact that I cannot predict whether we would have a boy or girl. And if it were a girl, I would not want to subject her to a life of turmoil based on these issues.

This breaks my heart into a million pieces as I really wanted us to have more children. I am an only child and hated it. I vowed not to have a single child for this reason. This has a huge and profound effect on our marriage and I am at a loss of how to handle this.

Edited May 15, 2008 by allousa

[Jenn! 918]

Toughie.

I'd say that he will "lighten up" about it the longer he lives here, and you still have quite a long time before any future daughter gets to be that age. You may not reach a compromise now, but in time, it will happen.

However, that could be a very naive point of view.

I have a tendency to trust that people over time will realize and correct hypocrisies in their opinions, but that's probably too good to be true.

Edited May 15, 2008 by Jenn!

[Ban Hammer 13,334]

perhaps he's just overly protective?

[MrsAmera 41]

My husband is the EXACT same (probably didn't help that i had a child at 19 not married....). Aaaaaanyway. When I got pregnant I REALLY wanted a girl really bad, but this whole thing was such a controversy, so in my heart I decided a boy would be better because I would hate how he would be with a girl (his attitudes etc.) However, I also think that if we had a girl it would be a different story. He says what he says now but by the time she's 14 or so it will be different. Then again I dreaded thinking what if it wasn't. *sigh* looking to see anyone else's opinions on this.

[sara535 15]

well, my first thought on reading this is to just remind you that people change and readjust thinking constantly throughout life.

For one thing he comes from a culture in which dating as we know it really doesnt exist. Secondly I think its very very common for daddies in any culture to not want their daughter to date until she's 30 (after all, men know what men are like and most of them wouldnt want their daughters running into anyone like the people they already know).

so while I do think its important to have some discussions about childrearing and future issues, I guess for me I would take this with a grain of salt. of course having said that I wasnt there for your conversation and maybe he is super heated and stubborn on this point. I just know that my husband has made some rumblings about this too but underneath it all he knows its ridiculous in this american society to think he wont have to compromise some of his upbringing ideas. and if he is a little strict, well so be it because frankly I look at some of these middle school girls in my sons class and I really do think to myself "there is no way in hell my child will EVER leave my house dressed like that". some of them look like teenage hookers. Maybe your husband is seeing things like that and digging in his heels.

Perhaps in the next year or two you guys can hash it out and get to the bottom of what he doesnt like about the dating thing, maybe its more something like he wants his daughter to be a virgin when she gets married which is something that with good strong positive parenting you can help your daughter achieve and yet she can still have a boyfriend or two along the way in high school. It could be that he is equating 'dating' with sex and teenage motherhood and a whole host of other issues. its definitely worth exploring to see if there is some compromise room.

just my quick thoughts.

Edited May 15, 2008 by sara535

[sarahaziz 0]

He probably didn't mention that to you because he sees you as a woman, his wife. His daughter is a different situation. That's going to be his baby girl he doesn't want any man to leave any marks on his girl. His respect is in his daughter she will carry her fathers name around and then her husbands. His son he probably (I am hoping) is being secure that he will teach his son to be a clean strong man. Not to fall into sin if he's going to be muslim. He probably has more trust in boys to stop themselves vs young girls. It happens alot in MENA countries. The boys work hard and girls dream of bf's to come sweep them off their feet. That's the "mentality" . If you have concerns I'd calmly explain to him how you've grown up and you are 50% responsible for the children and if you feel your girl should date at a certain age because of this or that , explain it to him. He won't understand how you feel if you don't tell him, and you won't understand him if you don't ask more questions. I hope I was of help.

[Nutty 2]

Dear Allousa:

It's a tough situation you're in. I think all of us, MENA people can relate.

Did you and Hicham date? If he frowns on dating so much, then why would he himself commit the act of dating? It is a form of hypocrisy to say, "it's ok we parents dated, got married as result" and not allow the same opportunity to BOTH his children."

I think the important thing to remind Hicham is that if you raise your children in the right way, they will more than likely be good kids that won't go against their parents rules.

You also need to let him know that dating can be a "non-sexual" activity if you lay out the parimeters of what your kids can do (go to movies together, amusement parks, group outings).

Edited May 15, 2008 by Nutty

[doodlebugg 10]

If we ever have a daughter together inshallah she will not date.

My daughters now are not muslim but recently since they've kind of come of age, so to speak, I sat them down and explained the importance of waiting for your husband. Then the following week I bought them both a "promise" ring. I know it's called other things depending on where you live but before they put it on I told them that the ring represents their promise both to God and to me to keep themselves for their husbands. I already see the way my oldest daughter's friends dress and I see some of them hanging out at the softball field watching the boys softball games and flirting etc. She knows I don't like this and although I've never forbade her to hang out there doing that stuff she opts not to join in thank God. I mean they're only 12 years old but I know for a fact that a LOT of the 8th graders are already having sex so I figured this was the time to nip this in the bud, so to speak.

In the end all we can really do is enforce the importance of our own particular values and be a power of example to them, pray and hope for the best. BTW I hope if and when I do get pregnant it's a boy so we can avoid what I'm about to embark on!!!

[chaishai 1]

If we ever have a daughter together inshallah she will not date.

My daughters now are not muslim but recently since they've kind of come of age, so to speak, I sat them down and explained the importance of waiting for your husband. Then the following week I bought them both a "promise" ring. I know it's called other things depending on where you live but before they put it on I told them that the ring represents their promise both to God and to me to keep themselves for their husbands. I already see the way my oldest daughter's friends dress and I see some of them hanging out at the softball field watching the boys softball games and flirting etc. She knows I don't like this and although I've never forbade her to hang out there doing that stuff she opts not to join in thank God. I mean they're only 12 years old but I know for a fact that a LOT of the 8th graders are already having sex so I figured this was the time to nip this in the bud, so to speak.

In the end all we can really do is enforce the importance of our own particular values and be a power of example to them, pray and hope for the best. BTW I hope if and when I do get pregnant it's a boy so we can avoid what I'm about to embark on!!!

if you have a son he will be allowed to date? i dont get that. i respect (although i dont agree with) the fact that you wouldnt want a daughter to date - but why would it be ok for the boy to date? what if he dated another muslim couples daughter behind her parents back? you wouldnt want that to happen to you right?

i think you are very nice, i am not trying to start anything - i am just trying to understand how this double standard is OK?

[aya*abouelnasr 0]

Okay, this is my own opinion, nothing bases on Islam, or on MENA raisings, but on good ole fashion, southern roots. Now, as I was growing up, I was not allowed to date. Not even allowed to talk to boys on the phone. At 16 I went rip roaring crazy, started skipping school, hanging out, getting high, drinking, smoking. None of this was allowed by my parents, and I knew it. The way I saw it was that my parents were trying to control my life and I was not going to listen to anything they said. As they say, where there is a will, there is a way. But, there is an explanation to all of this. My mother, (may she rest in peace), Never explained the facts of life to me, all she said was stay away from men, they will do bad things to you. That was the extent of that conversation! So, there were no open lines of communication between she and I in that aspect. Looking back, I know that if there had been, my actions could have been drastically different.

In my opinion, Islam is akin to having good old fashion values and pride in yourself and your actions. Keeping yourself modest by wearing hijab, protecting your pride by not falling into the mainstream, protecting your family and future spouses integrity, respect, by remaining chaste until your marriage.

I only have boys, but I have tried to instill into them the knowledge that respect in oneself and of others, that is so important. I can only hope that they will make me proud when it comes time for them to date. I would hate for a parent to call me and tell me that my son had been disrespectful of them or of their daughter.

So, it's is my thought that by having an open and honest relationship, making sure any future girl child knows what you deem acceptable behavior, making yourself available for open discussions, that can go a long way in avoiding her making any mistakes along the way.

But, as I said, only my opinion, and I wish you luck!

[doodlebugg 10]

If we ever have a daughter together inshallah she will not date.

My daughters now are not muslim but recently since they've kind of come of age, so to speak, I sat them down and explained the importance of waiting for your husband. Then the following week I bought them both a "promise" ring. I know it's called other things depending on where you live but before they put it on I told them that the ring represents their promise both to God and to me to keep themselves for their husbands. I already see the way my oldest daughter's friends dress and I see some of them hanging out at the softball field watching the boys softball games and flirting etc. She knows I don't like this and although I've never forbade her to hang out there doing that stuff she opts not to join in thank God. I mean they're only 12 years old but I know for a fact that a LOT of the 8th graders are already having sex so I figured this was the time to nip this in the bud, so to speak.

In the end all we can really do is enforce the importance of our own particular values and be a power of example to them, pray and hope for the best. BTW I hope if and when I do get pregnant it's a boy so we can avoid what I'm about to embark on!!!

if you have a son he will be allowed to date? i dont get that. i respect (although i dont agree with) the fact that you wouldnt want a daughter to date - but why would it be ok for the boy to date? what if he dated another muslim couples daughter behind her parents back? you wouldnt want that to happen to you right?

i think you are very nice, i am not trying to start anything - i am just trying to understand how this double standard is OK?

whoops....our son will not date either!!! I guess since the topic was around girls I just thought I'd focus on them. I'm assuming it's going to be easier to enforce a boy not dating but then I have no experience with boys. I just know everyone who has one tells me they're easier.

[~Jackie~ 30]

My daughter and her husband will have the same 'dating' issues with Lexy and they are not muslim. My son-in-law will be so so so protective of her regardless of religion. I think it's a 'dad' thing.

Jackie

[sereia 0]

Sorry to hear about the disappointment, Allousa. Hard to know whether he'll loosen up and change his mind.... or stick to his beliefs (or become more religious???)

I wish I had better advice to give...but I would hold off on the topic until you've had more time together and raised your son together longer.

[♥JP♥ 5]

My best advice...cross that road when you get to it. My father was the same way when he came to this country. He lightened up over the years quite a bit as did the rest of my family.

You are asking him to accept something that is foreign to him and he is asking you to do the same. There is no point in discussing these issues now.

[allousa 1]

I guess what bothers me so much about his attitude with this is that we DID date before we got married. We were even sleeping together. He was drinking, smoking and going out to clubs when we first met. I know that he and his brothers all dated back home in Morocco when they were teenagers. His parents started out fairly poor when they first moved to Morocco, but have built a thriving business over the years that has allowed the family to live nicely. They are all well-educated and are pretty liberal. None of my husband's family are overly religious and have never really been practicing Muslims. They observe the holidays and don't eat pork, that kind of thing, but they do not pray or go to the mosque on a regular basis.

We talked alot about religion and children before we were married because I KNEW it could be a minefield of issues. But he NEVER told me this.

He gave me the impression when we were arguing about this that he wouldn't change his mind.

I told him if he truly expected this of his daughter then the U.S. isn't the place to raise her because of all that she would see and experience in school and such. Then he says, well, we will just move...back to Morocco maybe. I told him, you don't think they don't date there? I swear to you, he then said, well, we could move to Afghanistan!

I was like #######?????

I just feel like he has suddenly turned into this person I don't know. After being together for so long, albeit the last 4 years apart, I'm blindsighted.

I don't feel like he is thinking fairly OR rationally.