Citizenship and the conveyance of it in MENA

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

I thought I would open this thread to discuss citizenship issues

A person born in the UK to a Syrian father and American mother automatically acquires the father's citizenship at birth.[18] The child may also be entitled to United States citizenship (jus sanguinis), depending on the parent's marital status and the amount of physical presence the mother has spent in the U.S. Although America recognizes multiple citizenship, Syria does not, which could create complications for Syrians who also hold non-Syrian citizenship.[18] A child born inside the UK on or after 1 January 1983 acquires British citizenship at birth only if at least one of the parents is "settled" in the UK at the time of the birth (i.e. is a British citizen or otherwise has the right of abode in the UK, is an Irish citizen, is a citizen of an EU/EEA country and has permanent residence in the UK, or holds indefinite leave to remain in the UK). Prior to this date anyone born in the UK was automatically a British Citizen.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

I thought I would open this thread to discuss citizenship issues

A person born in the UK to a Syrian father and American mother automatically acquires the father's citizenship at birth.[18] The child may also be entitled to United States citizenship (jus sanguinis), depending on the parent's marital status and the amount of physical presence the mother has spent in the U.S. Although America recognizes multiple citizenship, Syria does not, which could create complications for Syrians who also hold non-Syrian citizenship.[18] A child born inside the UK on or after 1 January 1983 acquires British citizenship at birth only if at least one of the parents is "settled" in the UK at the time of the birth (i.e. is a British citizen or otherwise has the right of abode in the UK, is an Irish citizen, is a citizen of an EU/EEA country and has permanent residence in the UK, or holds indefinite leave to remain in the UK). Prior to this date anyone born in the UK was automatically a British Citizen.

In an article entitled, “Netherlands: Moroccan babies get only names approved by Morocco,” Islam in Europe blog reports that when a baby is born in the Netherlands to parents of Moroccan descent (or more precisely, of Moroccan name), the parents are given a list of names approved by the Moroccan government.

In Morocco, there is a list of names (mostly Arab, some Berber) that parents are legally allowed to name their children. In addition, parents pay an extra fee for giving their child certain “special” names like Adam. But how does that apply to Dutch Moroccans?

Well, as Bo18 reported awhile back, once a Moroccan always a Moroccan. In other words, while a Moroccan can gain dual citizenship with another country, he can never give up his Moroccan nationality. In addition, any child born to a Moroccan father in any country is officially Moroccan. If that child wants, at some point in the future, to go back to Morocco (even to visit), he or she must have a Morocco-approved name or will encounter problems upon entry.

[Krissy! 0]

A lot of interesting information.... am curious about more.

Also was interested in that if a Jordanian woman married a foreigner, Jordan citizenship can not be passed onto the children. And if Jordanian man married a foreign, must go through all kinds of procedures (with the husband's permission) to get Jordanian citizen for the wife and the children.

Interesting, to say at the least.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

A lot of interesting information.... am curious about more.

Also was interested in that if a Jordanian woman married a foreigner, Jordan citizenship can not be passed onto the children. And if Jordanian man married a foreign, must go through all kinds of procedures (with the husband's permission) to get Jordanian citizen for the wife and the children.

Interesting, to say at the least.

There is an absurd law - the Citizenship law - in Jordan that women who marry foreigners cannot pass the Jordanian citizenship on to their children. Most reside in Jordan, these are Jordanian women, with, for all intents and purposes, Jordanian kids who were born on this soil and have probably lived here their entire lives. Yet, just like a foreigner, they need to renew their residency permits every year.

While many might think the Citizenship law affects mainly Jordanian women who have married, say, an American or European man, this stubborn law seems to be aimed mostly at Jordanian women who have married non-national Palestinian men. According to a Jordan Times piece by Rana Husseini…

In November 2002, the government announced that it was examining the possibility of amending articles in the Citizenship Law to grant Jordanian women the right to pass on their citizenship to their children. But five months later, then-interior minister Samir Habashneh announced that the government had no intention of granting citizenship to children of Jordanian women married to Palestinians until a settlement is reached in the Palestinian conflict.

“This issue is no longer possible because it means granting citizenship to around half-a-million Palestinians in Jordan,” the minister said.

Habashneh disclosed that there are about 60,000 Jordanian women married to Palestinians and the average number of children in each of these families is around 6.5. “This means giving the Jordanian citizenship to around 500,000 Palestinians,” he said.

It’s kind of strange to have a law that can target both women, children and Palestinians all at the same time. That’s one clever piece of legislation.

But the ex-Minister’s reasoning begs a few questions. Why are those half-a-million Palestinians not granted citizenship in the first place. At this point in time, most if not all, have been born and raised her for more than a generation.

Second of all, what is the difference between the offspring produced by a Palestinian man and a Jordanian woman, versus a Palestinian woman and a Jordanian man?

Third of all, isn’t this, on some level, a way for the state to cause divisions between Palestinians in Jordan and Jordanians, when on a social level they have been intermarrying for years? Most marriages in the country seem to be between Jordanians and Jordanians of Palestinian origin anyway.

Fourth, and more importantly, we are looking at (potentially) 500,000 people who are here illegally, thus making all their activities, such as working, getting an education, access to health care, all illegal activities. They simply do not exist. Making them citizens is likely to mean 500,000 more poor people and 500,000 more unemployed people in the country. This only means we already had 500,000 poor people and 500,000 unemployed people; we’re just calling them that now.

The reason for this post was that while reading the article today, I was reminded of the Syrian man in the Baqa’a refugee camp we visited almost 2 months ago. Married to a Jordanian, with several kids and even a grandson, none of them are considered Jordanian. I remember their sick child, shivering from the cold. And I remember that he had no access to health care. The Jordanian government wouldn’t treat them because they weren’t Jordanian, and the UNRWA and other camp-services wouldn’t treat them because they weren’t Palestinians.

What do you do with a law like that?

Where do you go from there?

The numbers will only continue to grow. What will the state do then? Will it have to revoke the Jordanian citizenship from Jordanian women who decide to marry foreigners?

[Jenn! 918]

In addition, any child born to a Moroccan father in any country is officially Moroccan. If that child wants, at some point in the future, to go back to Morocco (even to visit), he or she must have a Morocco-approved name or will encounter problems upon entry.

What kind of problems?

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

In addition, any child born to a Moroccan father in any country is officially Moroccan. If that child wants, at some point in the future, to go back to Morocco (even to visit), he or she must have a Morocco-approved name or will encounter problems upon entry.

What kind of problems?

I didnt write the post... but they are insinuating if you want the child to have Moroccan citizenship that they baby must have a moroccan name or they cant enter Morocco. Its that approved name in Morocco #######.. You havent heard that there is a list of approved Moroccan names? Girl study up...LOL

[Jenn! 918]

In addition, any child born to a Moroccan father in any country is officially Moroccan. If that child wants, at some point in the future, to go back to Morocco (even to visit), he or she must have a Morocco-approved name or will encounter problems upon entry.

What kind of problems?

I didnt write the post... but they are insinuating if you want the child to have Moroccan citizenship that they baby must have a moroccan name or they cant enter Morocco. Its that approved name in Morocco #######.. You havent heard that there is a list of approved Moroccan names? Girl study up...LOL

Study up? Hmmm, no thanks.

I thought you could answer the question for me if you already know.

Edited May 14, 2008 by Jenn!

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

In addition, any child born to a Moroccan father in any country is officially Moroccan. If that child wants, at some point in the future, to go back to Morocco (even to visit), he or she must have a Morocco-approved name or will encounter problems upon entry.

What kind of problems?

I didnt write the post... but they are insinuating if you want the child to have Moroccan citizenship that they baby must have a moroccan name or they cant enter Morocco. Its that approved name in Morocco #######.. You havent heard that there is a list of approved Moroccan names? Girl study up...LOL

Study up? Hmmm, no thanks.

I thought you could answer the question for me if you already know.

Ill look for the answer hold on

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

In addition, any child born to a Moroccan father in any country is officially Moroccan. If that child wants, at some point in the future, to go back to Morocco (even to visit), he or she must have a Morocco-approved name or will encounter problems upon entry.

What kind of problems?

I didnt write the post... but they are insinuating if you want the child to have Moroccan citizenship that they baby must have a moroccan name or they cant enter Morocco. Its that approved name in Morocco #######.. You havent heard that there is a list of approved Moroccan names? Girl study up...LOL

Study up? Hmmm, no thanks.

I thought you could answer the question for me if you already know.

Ill look for the answer hold on

here is an article from Haarlem The Netherlands. It has something to do with the Moroccan embassy and baby names have to be on a list for the child to have any kind of resident status or future status in Morocco.

In case anybody wondered why Muhammed will continue to be a popular name... While the Dutch government talks about the problems of integration, it makes sure its Moroccan and Turkish citizens will continue to get non-Dutch names.

---

It is insulting that the Netherlands cooperates with the discriminatory and Arabic-nationalistic police of the Moroccan government, according to Haarlem city council member Moussa Aynan. It bothers him that Dutch municipalities, including Haarlem, gives Moroccan parents, without any request for it, a list of names approved by the Moroccan government, when they want to register a birth.

Aynan: The list only contains Arabic names, not Berber or Christian and is therefore discriminatory.

Aynan (34) recently became the father of a son. "During my registration it was pointed otu to me that I would have problems with "my government" if I don't choose an approved name for my son. As if the Moroccan government is percieved as "my government"."

It especially bothers Aynan that the list is handed over without request to anybody with a Moroccan name. "I would feel somewhat better with it if it was first asked if somebody wanted to use the list."

A spokesperson for the municipality said the list was offered as a service in case parents also wanted to register their baby by the Moroccan embassy. "Haarlem accepts all names, unless it's insulting. In the Moroccan embassy they only accept names from teh list. That can lead to a whole lot of expenses if people don't know it."

Haarlem also has a Turkish name list.

[Jenn! 918]

Thanks, I'm just curious. It seems as if it's not really a law but just something they tell people to frighten them into using Moroccan names...you'll have "problems" with the government.

[AlHayatZween 2]

In Morocco, there is a list of names (mostly Arab, some Berber) that parents are legally allowed to name their children. In addition, parents pay an extra fee for giving their child certain “special” names like Adam. But how does that apply to Dutch Moroccans?

Well, as Bo18 reported awhile back, once a Moroccan always a Moroccan. In other words, while a Moroccan can gain dual citizenship with another country, he can never give up his Moroccan nationality. In addition, any child born to a Moroccan father in any country is officially Moroccan. If that child wants, at some point in the future, to go back to Morocco (even to visit), he or she must have a Morocco-approved name or will encounter problems upon entry.

Yes, this is true for Morocco... i don't know what the "problems" are... but i would imagine it would pertain to getting a Moroccan passport.

i did not know that "Adam" was a special name....? It is on the list...that much i know...

[AlHayatZween 2]

Thanks, I'm just curious. It seems as if it's not really a law but just something they tell people to frighten them into using Moroccan names...you'll have "problems" with the government.

Could be...

[samira_07 1]

In addition, any child born to a Moroccan father in any country is officially Moroccan. If that child wants, at some point in the future, to go back to Morocco (even to visit), he or she must have a Morocco-approved name or will encounter problems upon entry.

What kind of problems?

I didnt write the post... but they are insinuating if you want the child to have Moroccan citizenship that they baby must have a moroccan name or they cant enter Morocco. Its that approved name in Morocco #######.. You havent heard that there is a list of approved Moroccan names? Girl study up...LOL

Study up? Hmmm, no thanks.

I thought you could answer the question for me if you already know.

A major problem around a child born to a Moroccan national not using an approved Moroccan name (lists are available on the Moroccan embassy website) is due to inheritance laws and dual citizenship. There are benefits for having a Moroccan citizenship, but are only useful if you live in Morocco. There is no denying the child to enter the country since the child will hold a passport from the country of birth (example, USA). If you guys are thinking about children in the future, it really is up to you to way the pros and cons of dual citizenship in Morocco. On a side note we checked into this and decided that if there was an issue of inheritances that our children wouldn't be entitled to (due to dual citizenship and name issue), we would just use the court system

[Imua 0]

I have read that this is true for Nepal as well - a Nepali woman married to a foreigner(or presumably whose child is illegitimate) cannot pass on Nepali citizenship to her children. I assume if I get Nepali citizenship like might happen soon, then if Govi leaves me then I would lose it but am unsure. Unfortunately Nepal tends to be even behind India in terms of women's rights - until recently it was legal for men in villages to force their wives to sleep outdoors with the livestock during their periods and I am sure it is still going on even though it is now illegal. Women's rights are high on the agenda for the new constituent assembly so I am hoping this will change.

[caybee 21]

We know a couple of guys from the Netherlands, Moroccan father, non-Moroccan names, no trouble entering Morocco on Dutch passports. I guess they don't have Moroccan ones, but they don't need them. I doubt they have any plans to live in Morocco. Interesting information.