KKK endorses McCain: "A black President would go against just about everything we stand for"

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

You have to admit - the comparison between those two organisations was trite and a glaring example of PC relativism.

Not really - only if you compare today's NAACP and the pre-1970 KKK.

The modern-day Klan is not about vigilante violence or lynching.

It's the same thing with "white pride" - there's nothing wrong with the idea per se,

but people can't see past the label and the horrific past events associated with it.

Well first off (as I understand it) the Klan is a splintered organisation which lacks central organisation. It may not stand for the sort of overt violence and intimidation that they perpetrated 50-odd years ago - indeed they may have masked this by rebranding themselves along the lines of "traditional values", but I'm willing to bet that if you probe the views of the average Klansman you'll probably find that their opinions haven't evolved all that much.

Not to mention of course the Neo-Nazi splinter groups that think the "washed-out" Klan is too soft.

Edited May 14, 2008 by Number 6

[HAL 9000 96]

Good for your personal experiences. Seem that there are lots of personal experiences here in OT along the same lines.

All you gotta do is put things into the proper context and not assume anything until you actually have enough to base an actual argument upon- not conjecture based on limited life experiences. I think at this point merging to the personal expertise thread could be OK as well.

How many personal experiences do you need to "base an actual argument" on?

"Lots" is clearly not enough.

I'm perhaps being ironic in noting how so many VJers have dated and/or friends that have said one thing or another while equally being ignorant of very significant and statistically unmovable historical reality that really does have social and psychological repercussions in today's society.

And no, I wasn't referring to the particular person that I replied to as ignorant.

Edited May 14, 2008 by maviwaro

[amiquechu 0]

Good for your personal experiences. Seem that there are lots of personal experiences here in OT along the same lines.

All you gotta do is put things into the proper context and not assume anything until you actually have enough to base an actual argument upon- not conjecture based on limited life experiences. I think at this point merging to the personal expertise thread could be OK as well.

I never claimed to be an expert on anything. I don't judge anyone before I know them. What are you trying to say? Are you saying my personal experiences may as well have just not happened? Or that you just don't want to know about them since they don't do anything to advance your argument?

[Merk 0]

I never endorsed the KKK or any such organization through any of my comments. People like the KKK $hitbags of yesteryear should have all been tortured then killed...that's my opinion on them. Any white supremacists of today who promote the same hatred should get the same treatment.

My unpopular opinion, however, is that I'm tired of hearing that it's white peoples' fault that black people have it so bad. In this day and age in the US, anybody who wants to succeed can succeed. Yes, some may have a tougher path to a good life (father who walked out, raised in a poor neighborhood, surrounded by drugs, etc.), but the opportunity is there. In the end, every person is responsible for their own actions and their own life. If you sit around and complain all the time, you may feel good about yourself for getting your opinion out there. But at the end of the day, complaining doesn't pay the bills and it doesn't take care of your family. There are plenty of opportunities to succeed and do the right thing here in the US. Anyone with the drive and determination and the willingness to push away negative influences can succeed. Nearly everyone in this country knows the difference between right and wrong. The haves and have nots are usually separated by their decisions and drive to succeed.

I dated a few black women before I met my wife. One thing I came to realize, after all the conversations that I overheard between the friends and family of the women I dated, is that none of them could have a conversation amongst themselves without making at least one or two generalizations about different races. This was nearly EVERY conversation! They don't want color of skin to be important, but they couldn't stop talking about it. If I had a dollar for every time I heard phrases like "You know how white people are", "All white people...", "Man, white people crack me up...", "Man, white people are so dumb....", "I can't stand white people...", "Why the hell is she wit' a white dude?".......... This is personal experience. If you want to say I'm racist for bringing it up, that's your decision. Another thing that amazes me is how many of these women's friends and family I heard blaming other people for their own decisions and situations. After a while, it got really old. All different kinds of people from all different races do it, but it amazed me how many of the black people I met did it and how often they did it. My friends and family and I had spent all our lives never paying attention to anyone's race, so it was a bit of a shock. I grew up never paying really any attention to race because it didn't matter to me what color someone was. If they were a good person, I'd hang out with them. If they were bitter, I'd go my separate way and let them continue to be miserable whether they were white, black, Hispanic, Asian, etc., etc. One thing I got out of my experience of "going black" is that a vast majority of blacks that I came in contact with don't want anything to do with whites and are disgusted by white people. If they don't want anything to do with me, that's their decision and I'm not going to waste one breath trying to change them. Notice I didn't say all blacks though. There are plenty of quality black people out there who aren't racist. They are the people I choose to associate with. There are definitely some whites out there who think the same way about blacks, but I don't associate myself with them. White or black, if you're a miserable person, you're a miserable PERSON. Maybe blacks have good reason to be upset with some white people. I've never been black, so I haven't experienced some of the things they maybe have. But if a black person is racist, it's not because of anything I've ever done to them. That's what I really don't get...I've heard a lot personally about how evil I am because I'm white, and I've heard a lot of the victim "poor me" being thrown out there. I haven't experienced what they have, but in my life race has never meant anything other than the color of one's skin. I don't get how it can dominate someone's life like it does to so many of the black people I've met. If you take a look at the black people who are happy, they're not the ones consumed by racial issues and living on the victim mentality. The happiest black people are the ones who have decided to grab life by the balls and live life to the fullest. They take responsibility, contribute, and ignore the color of people's skin. Same thing goes for white people. I think you'll generally find that white supremacists are probably really miserable people. One of my best friends, who is black, will tell you without hesitation that black people are WAYYYYYYY more racist than white people.

Well said Erika's husband!!! In MY experience most of the hatefulness has come from the minorites. The people that think just cause you "look" like them that you will agree with all their negativity and share in their bitterness. Personally it offends me when ( I will not say my people, because I am bi-racial) I am around people and they let garbage views and words fall out of their mouths. Then they want to shun you and call you another race because you call them on their stupidity!!!...

... but I think this is another topic and I am not trying to go there! Just my 2 cents!!

[HAL 9000 96]

Good for your personal experiences. Seem that there are lots of personal experiences here in OT along the same lines.

All you gotta do is put things into the proper context and not assume anything until you actually have enough to base an actual argument upon- not conjecture based on limited life experiences. I think at this point merging to the personal expertise thread could be OK as well.

I never claimed to be an expert on anything. I don't judge anyone before I know them. What are you trying to say? Are you saying my personal experiences may as well have just not happened? Or that you just don't want to know about them since they don't do anything to advance your argument?

Sorry that my edit didn't complete before you replied.

As I said, its not you I was referring to nor your experiences per se.

Matter of fact, its all about the context that shapes as much your opinion and conclusions as the realistic context that so many people choose to ignore when trying to equate population dynamics on an individual level.

Also I wonder if perhaps someone can reflect on the notion that ignorance breeds ignorance.

Then again, I also have plenty of personal experiences living in the South Side of Chicago... and I think I can tell the difference between one kind of racism and the idiotic attitudes some people develop when their (self-imposed or societal imposed) comfort zones are challenged by those that are not of their color. After all, I see it on a daily basis and I don't freak out when I see it.

Edited May 14, 2008 by maviwaro

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

You have to admit - the comparison between those two organisations was trite and a glaring example of PC relativism.

[Not really - only if you compare today's NAACP and the pre-1970 KKK.

I should also add that the big clue here is in the headline of the thread. Clearly their views haven't changed all that much, even if they have tried to whitewash themselves with a veneer of mainstream respectability.

[amiquechu 0]

Good for your personal experiences. Seem that there are lots of personal experiences here in OT along the same lines.

All you gotta do is put things into the proper context and not assume anything until you actually have enough to base an actual argument upon- not conjecture based on limited life experiences. I think at this point merging to the personal expertise thread could be OK as well.

I never claimed to be an expert on anything. I don't judge anyone before I know them. What are you trying to say? Are you saying my personal experiences may as well have just not happened? Or that you just don't want to know about them since they don't do anything to advance your argument?

Sorry that my edit didn't complete before you replied.

As I said, its not you I was referring to nor your experiences per se.

Matter of fact, its all about the context that shapes as much your opinion and conclusions as the realistic context that so many people choose to ignore when trying to equate population dynamics on an individual level.

Also I wonder if perhaps someone can reflect on the notion that ignorance breeds ignorance.

Then again, I also have plenty of personal experiences living in the South Side of Chicago... and I think I can tell the difference between one kind of racism and the idiotic attitudes some people develop when their (self-imposed or societal imposed) comfort zones are challenged by those that are not of their color. After all, I see it on a daily basis and I don't freak out when I see it.

Point well taken. Like I said, I'm really open-minded for a "Mid-westerner" and will ALWAYS assume the best about someone until they give me reason not to. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the majority of people in the US are the same way. I think we do tend to hear a lot more about racist people than non-racist people because, let's face it, racism is a hot button that sells newspapers, advertising, etc. If you put two newspapers side-by-side with different front-page stories, which one would catch most people's attention....the one that talks about a black person who was just killed by three white guys with a rebel flag in the back of their truck, or an article about a seminar on racial diversity in a certain community?

[chri'stina 190]

You have to admit - the comparison between those two organisations was trite and a glaring example of PC relativism.

Not really - only if you compare today's NAACP and the pre-1970 KKK.

The modern-day Klan is not about vigilante violence or lynching.

It's the same thing with "white pride" - there's nothing wrong with the idea per se,

but people can't see past the label and the horrific past events associated with it.

huh?

There is a huge difference between one being proud of their ethnicity and thinking their ethnicity it better than everyone else's, which seems to be a big part of the white pride movement. I admittedly don't know much about the modern day KKK but I doubt they are so peace loving and just want to make sure white people get the same amount of opportunities as everyone else. Do the people in the KKK or in White Pride groups apologize and repent for the past actions of their groups?? Even if KKK tried to change their image, people shouldn't get past things they did. Sorry I find it hard to believe they are not pro violence and lynching. They just know it's harder to get away with now.

[mawilson 2,133]

huh?

There is a huge difference between one being proud of their ethnicity and thinking their ethnicity it better than everyone else's, which seems to be a big part of the white pride movement.

Says you.

[chri'stina 190]

huh?

There is a huge difference between one being proud of their ethnicity and thinking their ethnicity it better than everyone else's, which seems to be a big part of the white pride movement.

Says you.

So are you a member? Can you tell me more about it please.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

huh?

There is a huge difference between one being proud of their ethnicity and thinking their ethnicity it better than everyone else's, which seems to be a big part of the white pride movement.

Says you.

Says pretty much every historical example.

If we wanted to express pride in our ethnic culture (not that the mainstream really has one - and identifiable one anyway), we lost the right to do so when we made it about putting down minority groups.

[Sinergy 3]

huh?

There is a huge difference between one being proud of their ethnicity and thinking their ethnicity it better than everyone else's, which seems to be a big part of the white pride movement.

Says you.

So are you a member? Can you tell me more about it please.

[amiquechu 0]

Good story

Here's an article from the KC Star today about a kid from the area. Lot of negative in this thread...thought a nice positive story like this might lighten things up a bit.

[mawilson 2,133]

huh?

There is a huge difference between one being proud of their ethnicity and thinking their ethnicity it better than everyone else's, which seems to be a big part of the white pride movement.

Says you.

So are you a member? Can you tell me more about it please.

I don't think my ethnicity is better than everyone else's.

Why can't I be proud of being white and call it "white pride"? It's just a name, FFS.

If we wanted to express pride in our ethnic culture (not that the mainstream really has one - and identifiable one anyway), we lost the right to do so when we made it about putting down minority groups.

I disagree. I'm not responsible for other white people's actions.

[amiquechu 0]

I disagree. I'm not responsible for other white people's actions.

Amen.