KKK endorses McCain: "A black President would go against just about everything we stand for"

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

or indeed as "backward" as you did in your post in the other thread.

I only said that African countries were backwards when we invaded them.

Are you saying they weren't? Their primary social structure was tribal and

sectarian, and warring tribes were the leitmotif of their society.

Sure but as far as Africa (and indeed the middle east) goes there's several thousand years worth of history to consider. You can't set the framework for a stable, progressive society if you've been set back by every major imperial power from the Roman Empire to the British.

Unfortunately there is a tendency to promote this idea that the misfortunes of others are somehow deserved.

In any case - I believe I addressed that issue in a preceding post:

My point was that society doesn't exist in a vacuum - we can't sit back and pretend that if we did away with "leg-up" measures that society would be any more equal than it is now. Perhaps in a few hundred years the economic and social balance will be such that true equality is not only possible but a given.

Right now I think - the debate is about how to maintain cultural integrity while ensuring that everyone gets a fair share of the economic cake. It can be argued for instance that whites destroyed African infrastructure by making it more profitable for one tribe to enslave another, or that the US destroyed native American infrastructure by trading blankets and guns for beaver pelts, but the fact is these are forces which were never fully understood at the time and if the prevailing measure of wealth is our western model - then it might be that history must be forgotten in order for people to thrive in the reality which was unconsciously created by the success of that model. Whites didn't force the Huron and the Iroquois to go to war over the availability of beaver for European hats and could argue that they didn't tell them to fight and, as a consequence, reduce their numbers and effectiveness, forcing them to make pacts with the French and English forces during the French and Indian Wars etc. etc. etc.

Obviously there comes a time when we simply have to stop going over the causes of a problem and deal with the problem as it exists. Africa can't turn the clock back but does have to solve her problems in the light of what exists, even though the part of European and American society in the slave trade should also not be ignored and indeed could be factored in to economic dealings, which is why I think things like so called 'reverse discrimination' exist, and indeed why we have organisations like the NAACP and Southern Poverty Law Center, who constantly debate these problems and seek solutions for them.

I also agree that it's also important for the 'victims' to stop thinking of themselves in the the light of "victimhood" and demand full equality for themselves as citizens like anyone else. That's why I believe the race issue in the US is actually more of a class issue, requiring class solidarity to be most effective. You don't have to be a communist or even a socialist to see that the proliferation of class (even when disguised as 'race') stops a society from making the most of its citizens. Neither can one realistically expect everyone to be economically equal. But everyone should have equality under the law and the means of maintaining that equality. If we don't work to achieve that, we have only a faux democracy, no better than those which exist in, say, the Middle East and which are in part responsible for maintaning economic stagnation in that region.

Edited May 16, 2008 by Number 6

[Heracles 417]

Little boy... race and racism are about power, not about skin color. Go to the library (it's a place with lots and lots of books); grab the works of Peggy MacIntosh, Ruth Frankenberger, Shirley Steinberg (white women by the way); bell hooks (nee Gloria Swanson), George Sefa Dei; Peter McLaren, Henry Giroux, Jim Cummins, Stephen May, Joe Kincheloe (white males), Himani Bannerji, Gloria Anzaldua and many other scholars and read up, then write a dissertation about racism and discrimination in education today. I already did -- but I will sit here and wait to be enlightened by you and your "theories" on race, racialization, its relation to poverty, the end of racism since there is no slavery anymore, the desire to remain living in the ghetto, etc... Please, enlighten me, you 6'1" scholar of scholars.

Some prefer to keep academic discussions to academic circles - unlike other who need to flaunt "credentials" and then look like they barely completed grade 4.

Have a goo'day, mate.

I don't need to. I am from a 1st world country. A country actually ranked 3rd in the world in terms of living standards. You are from the US and have a spouse from Mexico. Simple as that really. Maybe you will get what I am trying to say. maybe you will not. The day you see Aussies breaking into Mexico for work, PM me Len..

[jundp 191]

Little boy... race and racism are about power, not about skin color. Go to the library (it's a place with lots and lots of books); grab the works of Peggy MacIntosh, Ruth Frankenberger, Shirley Steinberg (white women by the way); bell hooks (nee Gloria Swanson), George Sefa Dei; Peter McLaren, Henry Giroux, Jim Cummins, Stephen May, Joe Kincheloe (white males), Himani Bannerji, Gloria Anzaldua and many other scholars and read up, then write a dissertation about racism and discrimination in education today. I already did -- but I will sit here and wait to be enlightened by you and your "theories" on race, racialization, its relation to poverty, the end of racism since there is no slavery anymore, the desire to remain living in the ghetto, etc... Please, enlighten me, you 6'1" scholar of scholars.

Some prefer to keep academic discussions to academic circles - unlike other who need to flaunt "credentials" and then look like they barely completed grade 4.

Have a goo'day, mate.

I don't need to. I am from a 1st world country. A country actually ranked 3rd in the world in terms of living standards. You are from the US and have a spouse from Mexico. Simple as that really. Maybe you will get what I am trying to say. maybe you will not. The day you see Aussies breaking into Mexico for work, PM me Len..

Wait. #######? What does her husband coming from Mexico have to do with anything?

My fiance is from Germany and even I can see that there's racial discrimination in education. Of course, I spent years getting my degrees and the last 8 years actually as an educator so that may make a difference. It does exist, whether we want to admit it or not.

[Heracles 417]

Sure they can. I'm just not willing to characterise an entire section of our society as well as the problems and inequalities endemic to that population (perceived or otherwise) on the basis that those people are lazy.

The US economic system generates abundant economic prosperity for all.

Not everyone can be rich, but nearly everyone is capable of achieving a

modest and comfortable lifestyle with enough hard work and initiative.

I firmly believe that both the causes and the solutions to poverty lie within

the individual. We cannot change the cards we're dealt, but we can choose

how we play the hand.

Agree 100%.

There are lots of countries who would be more than happy to accept African Americans if they only tried applying. So if someone stills feels wronged and they are being served the short end of the stick then why not take it up. England, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Sweden, Dubai etc..

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Little boy... race and racism are about power, not about skin color. Go to the library (it's a place with lots and lots of books); grab the works of Peggy MacIntosh, Ruth Frankenberger, Shirley Steinberg (white women by the way); bell hooks (nee Gloria Swanson), George Sefa Dei; Peter McLaren, Henry Giroux, Jim Cummins, Stephen May, Joe Kincheloe (white males), Himani Bannerji, Gloria Anzaldua and many other scholars and read up, then write a dissertation about racism and discrimination in education today. I already did -- but I will sit here and wait to be enlightened by you and your "theories" on race, racialization, its relation to poverty, the end of racism since there is no slavery anymore, the desire to remain living in the ghetto, etc... Please, enlighten me, you 6'1" scholar of scholars.

Some prefer to keep academic discussions to academic circles - unlike other who need to flaunt "credentials" and then look like they barely completed grade 4.

Have a goo'day, mate.

I don't need to. I am from a 1st world country. A country actually ranked 3rd in the world in terms of living standards. You are from the US and have a spouse from Mexico. Simple as that really. Maybe you will get what I am trying to say. maybe you will not. The day you see Aussies breaking into Mexico for work, PM me Len..

Yeah I get what you're saying: you measure the worth of a person on the basis of their nation of origin - in which respect you are suggesting that people from Mexico (or at the least his/her Mexican spouse) is somehow worthless as a human being.

Very nice.

Edited May 16, 2008 by Number 6

[Heracles 417]

Wait. #######? What does her husband coming from Mexico have to do with anything?

My fiance is from Germany and even I can see that there's racial discrimination in education. Of course, I spent years getting my degrees and the last 8 years actually as an educator so that may make a difference. It does exist, whether we want to admit it or not.

No I wasn't bothering discussing what she actually said. Never will with Len anymore.

[HAL 9000 96]

Wait. #######? What does her husband coming from Mexico have to do with anything?

My fiance is from Germany and even I can see that there's racial discrimination in education. Of course, I spent years getting my degrees and the last 8 years actually as an educator so that may make a difference. It does exist, whether we want to admit it or not.

No I wasn't bothering discussing what she actually said. Never will with Len anymore.

Well that isn't a surprise. You do have a known history of not really discussing much of anything said here in the actual context that wrote it...

[LaL 418]

Little boy... race and racism are about power, not about skin color. Go to the library (it's a place with lots and lots of books); grab the works of Peggy MacIntosh, Ruth Frankenberger, Shirley Steinberg (white women by the way); bell hooks (nee Gloria Swanson), George Sefa Dei; Peter McLaren, Henry Giroux, Jim Cummins, Stephen May, Joe Kincheloe (white males), Himani Bannerji, Gloria Anzaldua and many other scholars and read up, then write a dissertation about racism and discrimination in education today. I already did -- but I will sit here and wait to be enlightened by you and your "theories" on race, racialization, its relation to poverty, the end of racism since there is no slavery anymore, the desire to remain living in the ghetto, etc... Please, enlighten me, you 6'1" scholar of scholars.

Some prefer to keep academic discussions to academic circles - unlike other who need to flaunt "credentials" and then look like they barely completed grade 4.

Have a goo'day, mate.

I don't need to. I am from a 1st world country. A country actually ranked 3rd in the world in terms of living standards. You are from the US and have a spouse from Mexico. Simple as that really. Maybe you will get what I am trying to say. maybe you will not. The day you see Aussies breaking into Mexico for work, PM me Len..

This is taking it too far Boo Yah.

Overall message - this type of rhetoric stops here. This thread is now closed.