KKK endorses McCain: "A black President would go against just about everything we stand for"

[Heracles 417]

I found those number last year. Here are the latest:

Number of Americans in poverty: 37 million

24.9% of black Americans living in poverty.

Estimated black population: 39.7 million

So 9.9 million African Americans live in Poverty. Therefore 26.8% of Americans living in poverty are black and the rest are not.

OK.... so using those figures 24.9% of all blacks (or 1 in 4) are living in poverty - proportionally. How does that compare proportionally to other ethnicities?

By my calculations 26.8% are living in poverty. There are also a lot of black Americans who are extremely rich. I have meet many African Americans who are not crying for money. Oprah is worth about $1,500,000,000..

So Black Americans have slightly greater than a 1 in 4 change of living in poverty. Thanks mate!

no probs.

Did you also note that 73.2% of Americans living in poverty who are not actually African American? Therefore this ####### that only black Americans are a victim of "grotesque institutional racism" is not correct. Poverty is poverty. It affects all races and not just one. It is just a shame that someone of your caliber doesn't understand that you cannot simply base it on historical events while ignoring the underlying culture and attitude of a community. Basically pretend that has nothing to do with it.

May want to look at Geert Hofstede cultural dimensions further to understand what I am referring to.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I found those number last year. Here are the latest:

Number of Americans in poverty: 37 million

24.9% of black Americans living in poverty.

Estimated black population: 39.7 million

So 9.9 million African Americans live in Poverty. Therefore 26.8% of Americans living in poverty are black and the rest are not.

OK.... so using those figures 24.9% of all blacks (or 1 in 4) are living in poverty - proportionally. How does that compare proportionally to other ethnicities?

By my calculations 26.8% are living in poverty. There are also a lot of black Americans who are extremely rich. I have meet many African Americans who are not crying for money. Oprah is worth about $1,500,000,000..

So Black Americans have slightly greater than a 1 in 4 change of living in poverty. Thanks mate!

no probs.

Did you also note that 73.2% of Americans living in poverty who are not actually African American? Therefore this ####### that only black Americans are a victim of "grotesque institutional racism" is not correct. Poverty is poverty. It affects all races and not just one. It is just a shame that someone of your caliber doesn't understand that you cannot simply base it on historical events while ignoring the underlying culture and attitude of a community. Basically pretend that has nothing to do with it.

May want to look at Geert Hofstede cultural dimensions further to understand what I am referring to.

Yes I did - it doesn't change the point that if you are black in this country you are statistically more likely to experience poverty. That's not to ignore anyone else who lives in poverty who isn't black but to point out a general trend of economic inequality which is proportionally larger for blacks than other ethnic groups.

If 1 in 4 whites were living in poverty - that would translate to around 55,000,000 people.

Edited May 16, 2008 by Number 6

[mawilson 2,133]

If 1 in 4 whites were living in poverty - that would translate to around 55,000,000 people.

Or it could just be their "victim mentality" -- why bother getting a job when you

can get more money and free handouts from "Whitey"?

Add up all the money given to them in welfare checks, food stamps, free housing,

free education, affirmative action; add the costs of violent crime perpetrated by

African Americans - murders, rape, robberies, property damage - then add the

trillions of dollars sent to Africa... the numbers are staggering!

Slavery? Tens of thousands of Irish people were shipped into slavery.

Millions of Russians were captured and enslaved by the Mongols for 300 years.

Do you see them using slavery as an excuse?

When is this BS going to end?

[DeadPoolX 9]

Sure.

Society isn't equal.

Now that's interesting. So society isn't "equal." Is that why it's acceptable for blacks (or other minorities) to play the race card against those who're white? Inequality, when it works in favor of a minority is fine, but if it hurts them in any way, then we must enact change for "the good of mankind." Fascinating.

While blacks may have been slaves a couple of hundred years ago, today they are free men and women. They (potentially) have the same opportunities as anyone else; they certainly have the same rights and freedoms. In fact, it seems like they have more sometimes due to some form of "guilt trip" that's pervasive among many whites.

I refuse to feel guilty about black slavery. I didn't do it and my family wasn't even in the United States at the time. I also feel it's ridiculous for free blacks to demand so much -- based upon past slavery issues -- when they have never been slaves themselves. I would gladly do something for the individuals who were slaves, but unfortunately, they are all dead.

Blacks making demands for what occurred in the past is as crazy as me making demands from numerous other countries (including the U.S.) for the treatment Jews have received over the last two millenniums. If we were to break it all down and do a side-by-side comparison, I think it'd be safe to say that Jews have had it much, much worse throughout the ages than the blacks in America.

However, none of what happened to those Jews has happened to me -- that's the key. I've lived a relatively comfortable and free life in the United States. I have absolutely no right to demand anything based upon my life or what has transpired to others. If those individuals who have been wronged wish to make demands, then that is fine. They probably have a case, but people like me, who've had a pretty damn good life, can't sit up and complain about what occurred to others years ago. It's not my battle and therefore, I have no business attending to it.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

If 1 in 4 whites were living in poverty - that would translate to around 55,000,000 people.

Or it could just be their "victim mentality" -- why bother getting a job when you

can get more money and free handouts from "Whitey"?

Add up all the money given to them in welfare checks, food stamps, free housing,

free education, affirmative action; add the costs of violent crime perpetrated by

African Americans - murders, rape, robberies, property damage - then add the

trillions of dollars sent to Africa... the numbers are staggering!

Slavery? Tens of thousands of Irish people were shipped into slavery.

Millions of Russians were captured and enslaved by the Mongols for 300 years.

Do you see them using slavery as an excuse?

When is this BS going to end?

It could be all of these things - I guess I don't see the problem in taking a nuanced view of the whole picture, rather than writing it all off by pointing fingers.

[amiquechu 0]

Sure.

Society isn't equal.

Now that's interesting. So society isn't "equal." Is that why it's acceptable for blacks (or other minorities) to play the race card against those who're white? Inequality, when it works in favor of a minority is fine, but if it hurts them in any way, then we must enact change for "the good of mankind." Fascinating.

While blacks may have been slaves a couple of hundred years ago, today they are free men and women. They (potentially) have the same opportunities as anyone else; they certainly have the same rights and freedoms. In fact, it seems like they have more sometimes due to some form of "guilt trip" that's pervasive among many whites.

I refuse to feel guilty about black slavery. I didn't do it and my family wasn't even in the United States at the time. I also feel it's ridiculous for free blacks to demand so much -- based upon past slavery issues -- when they have never been slaves themselves. I would gladly do something for the individuals who were slaves, but unfortunately, they are all dead.

Blacks making demands for what occurred in the past is as crazy as me making demands from numerous other countries (including the U.S.) for the treatment Jews have received over the last two millenniums. If we were to break it all down and do a side-by-side comparison, I think it'd be safe to say that Jews have had it much, much worse throughout the ages than the blacks in America.

However, none of what happened to those Jews has happened to me -- that's the key. I've lived a relatively comfortable and free life in the United States. I have absolutely no right to demand anything based upon my life or what has transpired to others. If those individuals who have been wronged wish to make demands, then that is fine. They probably have a case, but people like me, who've had a pretty damn good life, can't sit up and complain about what occurred to others years ago. It's not my battle and therefore, I have no business attending to it.

You mean you've let go of what happened to people you never knew hundreds of years ago? You decided to go out and make something out of your life? Do you ever ask yourself if it would have maybe been more effective and productive for you and your family if you had sat around complaining and claiming that you're a victim instead of going through the trouble of working?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Sure.

Society isn't equal.

Now that's interesting. So society isn't "equal." Is that why it's acceptable for blacks (or other minorities) to play the race card against those who're white? Inequality, when it works in favor of a minority is fine, but if it hurts them in any way, then we must enact change for "the good of mankind." Fascinating.

While blacks may have been slaves a couple of hundred years ago, today they are free men and women. They (potentially) have the same opportunities as anyone else; they certainly have the same rights and freedoms. In fact, it seems like they have more sometimes due to some form of "guilt trip" that's pervasive among many whites.

I refuse to feel guilty about black slavery. I didn't do it and my family wasn't even in the United States at the time. I also feel it's ridiculous for free blacks to demand so much -- based upon past slavery issues -- when they have never been slaves themselves. I would gladly do something for the individuals who were slaves, but unfortunately, they are all dead.

Blacks making demands for what occurred in the past is as crazy as me making demands from numerous other countries (including the U.S.) for the treatment Jews have received over the last two millenniums. If we were to break it all down and do a side-by-side comparison, I think it'd be safe to say that Jews have had it much, much worse throughout the ages than the blacks in America.

However, none of what happened to those Jews has happened to me -- that's the key. I've lived a relatively comfortable and free life in the United States. I have absolutely no right to demand anything based upon my life or what has transpired to others. If those individuals who have been wronged wish to make demands, then that is fine. They probably have a case, but people like me, who've had a pretty damn good life, can't sit up and complain about what occurred to others years ago. It's not my battle and therefore, I have no business attending to it.

My point was that society doesn't exist in a vacuum - we can't sit back and pretend that if we did away with "leg-up" measures that society would be any more equal than it is now. Perhaps in a few hundred years the economic and social balance will be such that true equality is not only possible but a given.

Right now I think - the debate is about how to maintain cultural integrity while ensuring that everyone gets a fair share of the economic cake. It can be argued for instance that whites destroyed African infrastructure by making it more profitable for one tribe to enslave another, or that the US destroyed native American infrastructure by trading blankets and guns for beaver pelts, but the fact is these are forces which were never fully understood at the time and if the prevailing measure of wealth is our western model - then it might be that history must be forgotten in order for people to thrive in the reality which was unconsciously created by the success of that model. Whites didn't force the Huron and the Iroquois to go to war over the availability of beaver for European hats and could argue that they didn't tell them to fight and, as a consequence, reduce their numbers and effectiveness, forcing them to make pacts with the French and English forces during the French and Indian Wars etc. etc. etc.

Obviously there comes a time when we simply have to stop going over the causes of a problem and deal with the problem as it exists. Africa can't turn the clock back but does have to solve her problems in the light of what exists, even though the part of European and American society in the slave trade should also not be ignored and indeed could be factored in to economic dealings, which is why I think things like so called 'reverse discrimination' exist, and indeed why we have organisations like the NAACP and Southern Poverty Law Center, who constantly debate these problems and seek solutions for them.

I also agree that it's also important for the 'victims' to stop thinking of themselves in the the light of "victimhood" and demand full equality for themselves as citizens like anyone else. That's why I believe the race issue in the US is actually more of a class issue, requiring class solidarity to be most effective. You don't have to be a communist or even a socialist to see that the proliferation of class (even when disguised as 'race') stops a society from making the most of its citizens. Neither can one realistically expect everyone to be economically equal. But everyone should have equality under the law and the means of maintaining that equality. If we don't work to achieve that, we have only a faux democracy, no better than those which exist in, say, the Middle East and which are in part responsible for maintaning economic stagnation in that region.

[Peikko 1,575]

I have noticed how poor people sit around all day moaning about how they are victims instead of working...trite bollocks!

[SMOKE 1,426]

I have noticed how poor people sit around all day moaning about how they are victims instead of working...trite bollocks!

whats that mean?

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I have noticed how poor people sit around all day moaning about how they are victims instead of working...trite bollocks!

whats that mean?

VJ needs an in-built translator for all the UK english. I sure could use it

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I have noticed how poor people sit around all day moaning about how they are victims instead of working...trite bollocks!

whats that mean?

rough translation:

complete #######.

clicheed rubbish.

that's garbage.

Balls to that idea.

Edited May 16, 2008 by Number 6

[HAL 9000 96]

Sure.

Society isn't equal.

Now that's interesting. So society isn't "equal." Is that why it's acceptable for blacks (or other minorities) to play the race card against those who're white? Inequality, when it works in favor of a minority is fine, but if it hurts them in any way, then we must enact change for "the good of mankind." Fascinating.

While blacks may have been slaves a couple of hundred years ago, today they are free men and women. They (potentially) have the same opportunities as anyone else; they certainly have the same rights and freedoms. In fact, it seems like they have more sometimes due to some form of "guilt trip" that's pervasive among many whites.

I refuse to feel guilty about black slavery. I didn't do it and my family wasn't even in the United States at the time. I also feel it's ridiculous for free blacks to demand so much -- based upon past slavery issues -- when they have never been slaves themselves. I would gladly do something for the individuals who were slaves, but unfortunately, they are all dead.

Blacks making demands for what occurred in the past is as crazy as me making demands from numerous other countries (including the U.S.) for the treatment Jews have received over the last two millenniums. If we were to break it all down and do a side-by-side comparison, I think it'd be safe to say that Jews have had it much, much worse throughout the ages than the blacks in America.

However, none of what happened to those Jews has happened to me -- that's the key. I've lived a relatively comfortable and free life in the United States. I have absolutely no right to demand anything based upon my life or what has transpired to others. If those individuals who have been wronged wish to make demands, then that is fine. They probably have a case, but people like me, who've had a pretty damn good life, can't sit up and complain about what occurred to others years ago. It's not my battle and therefore, I have no business attending to it.

My point was that society doesn't exist in a vacuum - we can't sit back and pretend that if we did away with "leg-up" measures that society would be any more equal than it is now. Perhaps in a few hundred years the economic and social balance will be such that true equality is not only possible but a given.

Right now I think - the debate is about how to maintain cultural integrity while ensuring that everyone gets a fair share of the economic cake. It can be argued for instance that whites destroyed African infrastructure by making it more profitable for one tribe to enslave another, or that the US destroyed native American infrastructure by trading blankets and guns for beaver pelts, but the fact is these are forces which were never fully understood at the time and if the prevailing measure of wealth is our western model - then it might be that history must be forgotten in order for people to thrive in the reality which was unconsciously created by the success of that model. Whites didn't force the Huron and the Iroquois to go to war over the availability of beaver for European hats and could argue that they didn't tell them to fight and, as a consequence, reduce their numbers and effectiveness, forcing them to make pacts with the French and English forces during the French and Indian Wars etc. etc. etc.

Obviously there comes a time when we simply have to stop going over the causes of a problem and deal with the problem as it exists. Africa can't turn the clock back but does have to solve her problems in the light of what exists, even though the part of European and American society in the slave trade should also not be ignored and indeed could be factored in to economic dealings, which is why I think things like so called 'reverse discrimination' exist, and indeed why we have organisations like the NAACP and Southern Poverty Law Center, who constantly debate these problems and seek solutions for them.

I also agree that it's also important for the 'victims' to stop thinking of themselves in the the light of "victimhood" and demand full equality for themselves as citizens like anyone else. That's why I believe the race issue in the US is actually more of a class issue, requiring class solidarity to be most effective. You don't have to be a communist or even a socialist to see that the proliferation of class (even when disguised as 'race') stops a society from making the most of its citizens. Neither can one realistically expect everyone to be economically equal. But everyone should have equality under the law and the means of maintaining that equality. If we don't work to achieve that, we have only a faux democracy, no better than those which exist in, say, the Middle East and which are in part responsible for maintaning economic stagnation in that region.

Very carefully chosen words, 6. Well done. This in effect takes the historical importance of what has been, as well as the argument some of our not-so bad intentioned friends here write that they should't feel bad/responsible for past wrongs (in fact, neither should anyone else)... and in light of where we are as a society in 2008, it is absolutely true SOME of those "victims", history aside, need to stop crying the victim card and move on. As much as those that by virtue of class AND race benefit of the disparity between both "communities" need to reconcile their defensive attitutes to one that is more progressive.

By changing these attitudes can we move on as a whole and then our more confused friends can then excuse their observations as those limited to aspects of personal choice. In the meantime things will continue to play in the bipolar "give and take" fashion of ignorance, inequality, and stupidity.

I guess this will eventually mean that advancement organizations won't be needed anymore, right?

As for the hate groups... that's a tough question. Perhaps some shifting attitutes can help rid us of those as well.

Have a great Friday everyone!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I guess this will eventually mean that advancement organizations won't be needed anymore, right?

This is the theory yes.

In regards to that other point on "playing the race card" I wonder if anyone has stopped to consider who actually propagating this perceived inequality in public speech? I mean... where did it come from?

While its popular to blame "liberals" for all things even hinting of political correctness - I'm not sure thats a fair summation of why our society gives certain leeway toward some groups in terms of accepted speech, and is less tolerant of the same thing in others.

[HAL 9000 96]

I guess this will eventually mean that advancement organizations won't be needed anymore, right?

This is the theory yes.

In regards to that other point on "playing the race card" I wonder if anyone has stopped to consider who actually propagating this perceived inequality in public speech? I mean... where did it come from?

While its popular to blame "liberals" for all things even hinting of political correctness - I'm not sure thats a fair summation of why our society gives certain leeway toward some groups in terms of accepted speech, and is less tolerant of the same thing in others.

It will always be ... OMG... a proper understanding of historical context!

Maybe that's why there are not that many white Americans crying foul over the "reverse" aspects of racism.

Time does move forward. Either by attrition or by progressive action will society finish off that blemish considered as racism but I certainly guarantee that when attitudes judge with idiocy, little progress will be made.

[Ban Hammer 13,206]

I have noticed how poor people sit around all day moaning about how they are victims instead of working...trite bollocks!

agreed. usually they are collecting their welfare and food stamps, or robbing some rich person........