Young Evangelicals Abandoning GOP Over Iraq, Economy

[HAL 9000 96]

I do wish there was a 3rd prominent party that mixed together some things from the right and some from left. As a Christian (and "evangelical" I guess) I do have the struggle sometimes. I think "big deal if Obama is Pres". It'd be cool to have our first black Pres. I am not going to freak out if he wins(well I am saying this assuming he is the dem nominee). But then if I hear him talk a lot about his stances then I can't help but be turned off by a lot of it. I personally can't see myself voting for him. I am not going to judge Christians who do, I don't think a Christian has to vote Republican of course. And like I said I wish there was a 3rd party who was against abortion but also was into a few more social issues...but since there isn't I pretty much feel like I have to vote for McCain because of certain issues.

A woman's right to choose aside, what other issues does Obama seem like such a turnoff to an evangelical-inspired vote? Gays? Etc?

I mean, we can compare actual stances... war, for example... if we are against death as a fundamental religious value then it perhaps should be noted what political idiocy has gotten thousands of innocent civilians dead in other parts of the world as well as thousands of our own soldiers sacrificed for avarice. Food for thought. We can't preach individual morality without seeking social morality.

[chri'stina 190]

For the evangelicals, they've gone beyond the partisan topic of abortion and have come to realize there are much bigger issues that require their attention.

Bingo. I know a number of them and - unless they are being untruthful when talking to me which I have no reason to believe - many of them are not likely to be voting Republican this fall.

Not likely. They may vote third party but Obama will not get those votes.

Don't count on that, Gary.

If they do then they are by definition not evangelical.

I didn't know that they're all required to be in some sort of a lockstep. I thought that was them Nazis only.

Evangelicals are pretty closely defigned. That isn't to confuse them with Christians. That is a broader group. But as a group I doubt if you would get very many true evangelicals voting for someone that believes is unrestricted abortions on demand. It is just against their doctrine.

Not to be argumentative but that's not really true. Doctrinely true, they will be against abortion. But that doesn't mean all evangelicals will always vote the same. I know many too, since my whole Christian world is full of evangelicals, thousands of them over my lifetime, and I hate that the word evangelical has become what it is. Thanks to politics and the media I guess. Baptists, and other denominations, whether they fall into evangelical or not, also are strongly against abortion. I am not even sure what the media thinks evangelical means. It's something that irks me. It's another label that sounds good for sound bites. (Not directing the annoyance at Gary but at the media) There are crazy sounding evangelicals, and normal sounding ones (IMO at least) but people lump them all together as one mindless group of copycats.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

... people lump them all together as one mindless group of copycats.

Pollsters find trends and correlations, the media reports them as absolutes.

[rebeccajo 14]

Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson and even devout John Adams must roll over in their graves every time the evangelicals try to stick their beliefs into the political landscape.

I can hardly wait for the day when a persons religious beliefs are NOT a part of what they vote with. Do good works socially through the church and let the government run our countries infrastructure, not our lives.

Edited May 13, 2008 by rebeccajo

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Even if there was a third party or a fourth party, I doubt any of them would match my (or your) views precisely. That's why parties and candidates end up building coalitions of people who implicitly agree to prioritize certain issues over others and band together to support a common candidate. The question becomes, what is more important to you?

Exactly. For evangelicals, there are many big issues they must grapple with in terms of what kind of President they want.

[chri'stina 190]

I do wish there was a 3rd prominent party that mixed together some things from the right and some from left. As a Christian (and "evangelical" I guess) I do have the struggle sometimes. I think "big deal if Obama is Pres". It'd be cool to have our first black Pres. I am not going to freak out if he wins(well I am saying this assuming he is the dem nominee). But then if I hear him talk a lot about his stances then I can't help but be turned off by a lot of it. I personally can't see myself voting for him. I am not going to judge Christians who do, I don't think a Christian has to vote Republican of course. And like I said I wish there was a 3rd party who was against abortion but also was into a few more social issues...but since there isn't I pretty much feel like I have to vote for McCain because of certain issues.

A woman's right to choose aside, what other issues does Obama seem like such a turnoff to an evangelical-inspired vote? Gays? Etc?

I mean, we can compare actual stances... war, for example... if we are against death as a fundamental religious value then it perhaps should be noted what political idiocy has gotten thousands of innocent civilians dead in other parts of the world as well as thousands of our own soldiers sacrificed for avarice. Food for thought. We can't preach individual morality without seeking social morality.

A question was asked at a debate about a book read at an elementary school describing a homosexual relationship and did they think that was appropriate, etc. I didn't like his answer or his views on this issue. Hillary had a better answer. I don't like his unrealistic promise to take troops out of Iraq so quickly, which I think shows a lack of care for the Iraqi civilians, not caring what happens to them when we leave. Yes that is my valid concern, you can't just leave and let them all fend for themselves, that's wrong IMO. Some people blame Bush for killing innocent civilians, well I will blame someone for abandoning the civilians if they do that suddenly. That to me shows only the care for the US and it's money, not for the people involved over there that we brought into the mess in the first place. I think it also shows a lack of experience. I am against death but I am for freedom and for fighting for those who are weaker. I am not against all wars. I believe there are wars worth fighting such as WW2, etc. I am not going to argue about why we went into this war. Whatever reason we went in, we are there and have to leave better than abandoning it just to appease the public. I agree more has to be given over to the Iraqi govt and give them ultimatums. But I don't think I have heard Obama give a realistic plan for getting the troops out besides just saying he is going to do it (to win votes). I am tired of hearing people talk about how we shouldn't have gone to war(well it's been 5 years we all know that opinion over and over again) instead of saying we ARE in war and this is how to realistically end it or leave responsibly. The Wright issue I don't care about, I don't believe Obama agrees with his views. And if Obama is Pres I won't freak out, but I am just saying some of the reasons why I don't feel like voting for him.

Edited May 13, 2008 by stina&suj

[chri'stina 190]

When Mike Huckabee was still in the running for Rep nominee, I debated voting for him. His religious views are very similar to mine. But then I decided that even if I liked him as a person and for his beliefs doesn't mean I think he'd be the best choice for a nominee. Which is why I voted for McCain instead because of what I feel is more hard earned experience, and I do admire the hardship he went through being a POW for years, and I like that he doesn't always just go along with the far right. Some Christians were saying basically you have to vote for Huckabee. But I knew he wouldn't have a chance of winning the general election. So many of us do think for ourselves. And as it turns out, I talked to a lot of people who said they had also voted for McCain for the same reasons as I did...experience over beliefs (within the Republican party I mean).

Edited May 13, 2008 by stina&suj

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Huckabee would have been a formidable candidate, IMO. Yes, he had some wacky (imo) views but he is way more personable and funny than McCain is and that would have helped a lot. McCain comes across as that old grouch who keeps asking the kids to get off his damn lawn.

[chri'stina 190]

Huckabee would have been a formidable candidate, IMO. Yes, he had some wacky (imo) views but he is way more personable and funny than McCain is and that would have helped a lot. McCain comes across as that old grouch who keeps asking the kids to get off his damn lawn.

See I kind of like that, I don't know why. He's got hutspa. Some people would let the kids ruin their lawn.

I liked Huckabee's personality a lot, but I don't agree about him being a formidable candidate. I don't see it personally. I think his beliefs would have been highlighted and ripped to shreds, people would probably call him a fundamental, Bush III like they are calling McCain, etc. I could be wrong but I just don't think so.

Edited May 13, 2008 by stina&suj

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

See I kind of like that, I don't know why. He's got hutspa. Some people would let the kids ruin their lawn.

But the kids aren't even on his lawn. It isn't even in his lawn. It belongs to the assisted living facility.

[rebeccajo 14]

See I kind of like that, I don't know why. He's got hutspa. Some people would let the kids ruin their lawn.

But the kids aren't even on his lawn. It isn't even in his lawn. It belongs to the assisted living facility.

[chri'stina 190]

See I kind of like that, I don't know why. He's got hutspa. Some people would let the kids ruin their lawn.

But the kids aren't even on his lawn. It isn't even in his lawn. It belongs to the assisted living facility.

Well his age was one of my concerns. But since he isn't walking around with a walker yet...

Me and my mom have joked that if it looks like McCain really has no chance getting close to Nov, we might vote for Obama just to be a part of history. Does that sound horrible and selfish? I mean I would like a new kind of President...woman(but not HRC) or black or any other ethnicity besides white. I just wish there was someone closer to my views in that situation. But I don't want to miss out being a part of US history either if there's no chance for McCain... Though right now it doesn't seem to be the case.

[SteveLaura 0]

You could argue that a vote for McCain is a vote for pre-history...

[chri'stina 190]

You could argue that a vote for McCain is a vote for pre-history...

Or old wisdom?

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Very old wisdom... wisdom older than burger king... older than Pakistan...

The kind of wisdom that forgets Czechoslovakia doesn't exist anymore...