Registered to Vote and Applying for Citizenship -- Advice needed

[jumper8 0]

This forum seem to have lots of folks who know how the system work.I have a question that have been troubling me since I have applied for citizenship...My application is already sent,and waiting for interview.

When I first arrived to the U.S,I went to get my driver license and they automatically registered me to vote.I had no idea I was registered until I recieved a letter in the mail about my voter's card...

In missouri,driving test is performed by the highway patrol,and they issue you a passing grade document(if you pass) which one takes it to a state contracted office that prints out the driver license. In my case at this office,they never asked me if I was a citizen or not,and then registered me to vote.

So I know you have to be US citizen to vote,and I have read dozen of case where citizenship applicants actually voted and were denied or put under removal proceedings when they told that to the officer at the time of interview in violation of:

INA sec 237(a)(6)(A)

1.is there a difference between "registering to vote" and "actually voting"...because "only" registering to vote,I can see that one can be found "falsely claiming" US citizenship,but "voting" is "voting fraud + falsely claiming US citizenship."

I heard that they usually dont deny if someone only registered to vote,but never voted because sometimes,new immigrants make innocent mistakes,and people usually can pretty much get registered to vote walking down the street since there is usually voter registration drive going on....and most of the time,US citizens themselves are confused as to who can and cannot register to vote or vote!!!

2.I read someone online that some told INS officer about "only registering to vote" and were only asked to remove their name from the voter's list and they would be fine since they did not actually voted....

Do someone here have any experience with this situation?...

I was only registered to vote without my knowledge(and more importantly never voted) and I thought then that, if you dont vote,they will automtically remove you from the list,but they sent me the voters card a year ago...I have already sent them a letter to take my name off the list.....

[NickD 203]

Ah, 50 states, and 50 different sets of regulations, state statues, and practices, one thing I did love about being in our military is that we were just one country for a change. What happened to you won't even come close to the laws in our state, voter registration is completely separate from the DMV. Ha, today couldn't even get my wife's DL renewed as she had an expired green card, and what in the hell is a one year extension notice. But I got on my governor's back to correct that. She still is paying taxes.

Most of these crazy agencies were started under Nixon, he was a pardoned proven crook, but the agencies are still here and can tell you by experience, these agencies simply do not mistakes, even if taken to a court of law, the bias is there toward the agencies. That is unless you are really a huge corporation with a huge staff of top attorneys. If the USCIS does make an error on your green card, it is up to you to point it out and get it corrected, if you don't, you will pay the penalty. Feel the same is true about your voters registration, you do admit to knowing about this error, therefore it is up to you to get it corrected. Even ignorance is no forgiveness for not knowing the law, and in this case, you do know the law.

I would take immediate steps to get that corrected whether you vote or not, really no record if you vote or not, and the seriousness of even a proposed of false voter registration can get you deported.

Can always contact an immigration attorney for better advice on this subject, I just don't like leaving anything to chance. The only person that can lose on this is you.

[zyggy 9]

You need to talk with an immigration attorney about this... But typically most voter resigtration forms have an affidavit on them that states that that the person filling out and signing the form swears that they are a US Citizen... but making a false statement of citizenship is a deportable offense.

Edited May 12, 2008 by zyggy

[jumper8 0]

You need to talk with an immigration attorney about this... But typically most voter resigtration forms have an affidavit on them that states that that the person filling out and signing the form swears that they are a US Citizen... but making a false statement of citizenship is a deportable offense.

I know most votre registration have the box which says "you confirm that you're a US citizen"...in my case,I never filled out the form...You have to remember also that many voter regitrations that goes on campus only just ask students to submit their name/date of birth/last 4 SSN...

I think this may come down to the interviewer's judge on my character....

[TayRivers 4]

You need to talk with an immigration attorney about this... But typically most voter resigtration forms have an affidavit on them that states that that the person filling out and signing the form swears that they are a US Citizen... but making a false statement of citizenship is a deportable offense.

I know most votre registration have the box which says "you confirm that you're a US citizen"...in my case,I never filled out the form...You have to remember also that many voter regitrations that goes on campus only just ask students to submit their name/date of birth/last 4 SSN...

I think this may come down to the interviewer's judge on my character....

The interviewer's hands are tied. The law states that if you have registered to vote then your application for Citizenship will be denied and you will be deportable.

You need to seek a immigration lawyer to help you sort this out if you are to have any chance of becoming a Citizen or notbeing deportable.

[churipu 4]

This forum seem to have lots of folks who know how the system work.I have a question that have been troubling me since I have applied for citizenship...My application is already sent,and waiting for interview.

When I first arrived to the U.S,I went to get my driver license and they automatically registered me to vote.I had no idea I was registered until I recieved a letter in the mail about my voter's card...

In missouri,driving test is performed by the highway patrol,and they issue you a passing grade document(if you pass) which one takes it to a state contracted office that prints out the driver license. In my case at this office,they never asked me if I was a citizen or not,and then registered me to vote.

So I know you have to be US citizen to vote,and I have read dozen of case where citizenship applicants actually voted and were denied or put under removal proceedings when they told that to the officer at the time of interview in violation of:

INA sec 237(a)(6)(A)

1.is there a difference between "registering to vote" and "actually voting"...because "only" registering to vote,I can see that one can be found "falsely claiming" US citizenship,but "voting" is "voting fraud + falsely claiming US citizenship."

I heard that they usually dont deny if someone only registered to vote,but never voted because sometimes,new immigrants make innocent mistakes,and people usually can pretty much get registered to vote walking down the street since there is usually voter registration drive going on....and most of the time,US citizens themselves are confused as to who can and cannot register to vote or vote!!!

2.I read someone online that some told INS officer about "only registering to vote" and were only asked to remove their name from the voter's list and they would be fine since they did not actually voted....

Do someone here have any experience with this situation?...

I was only registered to vote without my knowledge(and more importantly never voted) and I thought then that, if you dont vote,they will automtically remove you from the list,but they sent me the voters card a year ago...I have already sent them a letter to take my name off the list.....

Part 10, section A question nr 2 of the N400 form clearly asks "Have you ever registered to vote in any Federal, state or local election in the United States?" while the following question nr 3 asks if you actually ever voted...you are also asked at the Interview again about this, so I tend to think they are probably both equally bad things. Granted I am no expert so what I saw might be totally wrong, I do also tend to think your bona fide must play a role in this, but still it sounds like you're better off asking someone who is legally savvy about this and might help you work it out.

They appearently take this stuff very very seriously...

[jumper8 0]

This forum seem to have lots of folks who know how the system work.I have a question that have been troubling me since I have applied for citizenship...My application is already sent,and waiting for interview.

When I first arrived to the U.S,I went to get my driver license and they automatically registered me to vote.I had no idea I was registered until I recieved a letter in the mail about my voter's card...

In missouri,driving test is performed by the highway patrol,and they issue you a passing grade document(if you pass) which one takes it to a state contracted office that prints out the driver license. In my case at this office,they never asked me if I was a citizen or not,and then registered me to vote.

So I know you have to be US citizen to vote,and I have read dozen of case where citizenship applicants actually voted and were denied or put under removal proceedings when they told that to the officer at the time of interview in violation of:

INA sec 237(a)(6)(A)

1.is there a difference between "registering to vote" and "actually voting"...because "only" registering to vote,I can see that one can be found "falsely claiming" US citizenship,but "voting" is "voting fraud + falsely claiming US citizenship."

I heard that they usually dont deny if someone only registered to vote,but never voted because sometimes,new immigrants make innocent mistakes,and people usually can pretty much get registered to vote walking down the street since there is usually voter registration drive going on....and most of the time,US citizens themselves are confused as to who can and cannot register to vote or vote!!!

2.I read someone online that some told INS officer about "only registering to vote" and were only asked to remove their name from the voter's list and they would be fine since they did not actually voted....

Do someone here have any experience with this situation?...

I was only registered to vote without my knowledge(and more importantly never voted) and I thought then that, if you dont vote,they will automtically remove you from the list,but they sent me the voters card a year ago...I have already sent them a letter to take my name off the list.....

Part 10, section A question nr 2 of the N400 form clearly asks "Have you ever registered to vote in any Federal, state or local election in the United States?" while the following question nr 3 asks if you actually ever voted...you are also asked at the Interview again about this, so I tend to think they are probably both equally bad things. Granted I am no expert so what I saw might be totally wrong, I do also tend to think your bona fide must play a role in this, but still it sounds like you're better off asking someone who is legally savvy about this and might help you work it out.

They appearently take this stuff very very seriously...

Hey I think you maybe right..but if we consider the question of "have you ever failed to file taxes" vs. "Do you ever owe any taxes"....failing to file taxes is not necessary a violation so long as you don't owe taxes....and it could be that someone made less that the required income to file for taxes...

I hope I find somoene with this same experience to get a feel of what they went thru...

[NickD 203]

I only been dealing with the USCIS for five years now, ha, would have never have except for meeting the gal of my most wildest dreams in a foreign country. Just from reading the context of the forms, didn't take too long to realize that I am presumed guilty of some pretty major crimes until I prove myself innocent. And apparently no correlation exists between the USCIS and my state that has it's own set of rules. Our state is so strict on even granting a marriage license having to provide a stack of proof that we are eligible to even get married, the similar USCIS proof was simple. Even commented that maybe we should get married in a different state, can't do that, as long as I have residence here, could get fined 10,000 bucks and spend a year in jail by doing so.

Point is, the state doesn't care what the feds are doing and the feds don't care what the state is doing, so if your state does provide you with voter registration, don't expect any understanding from the USCIS. I would go back to your DMV and get that corrected, now.

Just on the news this morning that over 288,000 rebate checks have been blocked by the IRS, mostly military that married foreign spouses and either failed to provide their spouses SS number or never applied to immigration so their spouses could have a valid SS number, that is going to cost them and may lead to a further investigation.

Ha, Missouri sounds like a cool state, my step daughter just applied for college and when she couldn't provide a US birth certificate wanted to see a valid current green card that she had. They made a copy of that for their records, only then could she enroll. We are in WI, a rather strict state to live in. Ha, really didn't have to sign that I-864 either, if our marriage did end in divorce would have to pay child support payments for my step daughter and alimony to my wife. But the USCIS doesn't care at all about state laws, just their own laws.

[lucyrich 20]

You're on dangerous ground, and you'd be wise to seek the advice of an attorney.

You may also want to look at what the interviewer will be using for guidance. See the AFM 74.2(g) (available from the USCIS here).

Also note Appendix 74-10 and Appendix 74-9

My reading (and I'm NOT an attorney) is that you really need to be worried about actually having voted in an election, and about ever having claimed to be a US Citizen. If you have registered to vote but haven't ever claimed to be a US Citizen or voted in an election, you might be alright. If you signed voter registration paperwork that included a claim of citizenship, even though you didn't read what you signed, you may be in serious trouble.

Again, I'd talk to an attorney to sort it all out.

[jumper8 0]

You're on dangerous ground, and you'd be wise to seek the advice of an attorney.

You may also want to look at what the interviewer will be using for guidance. See the AFM 74.2(g) (available from the USCIS here).

Also note Appendix 74-10 and Appendix 74-9

My reading (and I'm NOT an attorney) is that you really need to be worried about actually having voted in an election, and about ever having claimed to be a US Citizen. If you have registered to vote but haven't ever claimed to be a US Citizen or voted in an election, you might be alright. If you signed voter registration paperwork that included a claim of citizenship, even though you didn't read what you signed, you may be in serious trouble.

Again, I'd talk to an attorney to sort it all out.

Hi LuciRich!!!...I think you should be an attorney!!!...thanks for the good and useful information you gave me.

I came across few cases online that someone registered but never voted,and they told it to the officer and they were fine

From what I've read thus far,usually if one said they actually voted,thats when the officer follows up with questions and questions...I am not sur ein my case they may followup nad just give me benefit of a doubt and just proceed with the interview...?...I am getting worried about it now...

I think an attorney may not do that much from what you may be saying...I think it may all come down to(if the officer would not want to give me the benefit of a doubt)..

1.Maybe I had falsely claimed to be a US citizen if the reg.form I may have signed ...

2.If the city allows non-citizens to vote in local elections or not......

I really hope I find someone with this similar experience so I can get a feel of what I maybe facing...

I am also guessing that it may boil down to the officer who would interview me if they really want to go into the needy greedy.....I heard some sometimes take like 5mins....I;m crossing my fingers....

Thanks for the wealth of info you provided....

[jumper8 0]

You're on dangerous ground, and you'd be wise to seek the advice of an attorney.

You may also want to look at what the interviewer will be using for guidance. See the AFM 74.2(g) (available from the USCIS here).

Also note Appendix 74-10 and Appendix 74-9

My reading (and I'm NOT an attorney) is that you really need to be worried about actually having voted in an election, and about ever having claimed to be a US Citizen. If you have registered to vote but haven't ever claimed to be a US Citizen or voted in an election, you might be alright. If you signed voter registration paperwork that included a claim of citizenship, even though you didn't read what you signed, you may be in serious trouble.

Again, I'd talk to an attorney to sort it all out.

I just wanted to follow up and see what your take on this may be....

Scenario 1:

To what extent can an attorney do if I did sign the form that said I was a US citizen which I was not becaue I may have not read it or they told me it was ok to sign it if I pay taxes...

Scenario 2:

Do you think it may be "ever" possible that though I signed the form,that I can later claim that I was not aware at the time and who ever registered me never asked me to go thru the form?....

I know you are not an attorney but your answers do give very logical sense,and educative guesses.....

Thanks very much!

[diadromous mermaid 36]

You're on dangerous ground, and you'd be wise to seek the advice of an attorney.

You may also want to look at what the interviewer will be using for guidance. See the AFM 74.2(g) (available from the USCIS here).

Also note Appendix 74-10 and Appendix 74-9

My reading (and I'm NOT an attorney) is that you really need to be worried about actually having voted in an election, and about ever having claimed to be a US Citizen. If you have registered to vote but haven't ever claimed to be a US Citizen or voted in an election, you might be alright. If you signed voter registration paperwork that included a claim of citizenship, even though you didn't read what you signed, you may be in serious trouble.

Again, I'd talk to an attorney to sort it all out.

I just wanted to follow up and see what your take on this may be....

Scenario 1:

To what extent can an attorney do if I did sign the form that said I was a US citizen which I was not becaue I may have not read it or they told me it was ok to sign it if I pay taxes...

Scenario 2:

Do you think it may be "ever" possible that though I signed the form,that I can later claim that I was not aware at the time and who ever registered me never asked me to go thru the form?....

I know you are not an attorney but your answers do give very logical sense,and educative guesses.....

Thanks very much!

Did you sign the voter registration form? Yes or no? My understanding is that a signature is required. Ignorance of the law is never a defense.

Edited May 13, 2008 by diadromous mermaid

[jumper8 0]

You're on dangerous ground, and you'd be wise to seek the advice of an attorney.

You may also want to look at what the interviewer will be using for guidance. See the AFM 74.2(g) (available from the USCIS here).

Also note Appendix 74-10 and Appendix 74-9

My reading (and I'm NOT an attorney) is that you really need to be worried about actually having voted in an election, and about ever having claimed to be a US Citizen. If you have registered to vote but haven't ever claimed to be a US Citizen or voted in an election, you might be alright. If you signed voter registration paperwork that included a claim of citizenship, even though you didn't read what you signed, you may be in serious trouble.

Again, I'd talk to an attorney to sort it all out.

I just wanted to follow up and see what your take on this may be....

Scenario 1:

To what extent can an attorney do if I did sign the form that said I was a US citizen which I was not becaue I may have not read it or they told me it was ok to sign it if I pay taxes...

Scenario 2:

Do you think it may be "ever" possible that though I signed the form,that I can later claim that I was not aware at the time and who ever registered me never asked me to go thru the form?....

I know you are not an attorney but your answers do give very logical sense,and educative guesses.....

Thanks very much!

Did you sign the voter registration form? Yes or no? My understanding is that a signature is required. Ignorance of the law is never a defense.

I dont remember I was only 3 weeks here in the US.From what I;ve read from the material LuciRich provided me with above.,I understand that even though they end up finding that I claimed to be a US citizen in the past by signing that form,the prosecutor would have to prove that my intentions was to gain benefits that are only limited to citizens,or vote (which I never voted or benefited as a reseult of the mistake) ...

I love the thoughts you guys are putting in to this,it helps me think more of what I may be facing...

[lucyrich 20]

the prosecutor would have to prove ...

Remember which direction the burden of proof goes.

If you're worried about being prosecuted in a criminal trial, the prosecutor has the burden of proof beyond all reasonable doubt. The defendant doesn't have to prove a thing in order to be acquitted.

However, if an alien is applying for an immigration benefit, including naturalization, the alien has the burden of proving eligibility for the benefit via a preponderance of the evidence. The government doesn't have to prove a thing in order to deny the benefit.

The Bart Simpson cliche, "they can't prove a thing", may mean you're immune from criminal prosecution, but it doesn't mean you'll be eligible for citizenship.

[jumper8 0]

the prosecutor would have to prove ...

Remember which direction the burden of proof goes.

If you're worried about being prosecuted in a criminal trial, the prosecutor has the burden of proof beyond all reasonable doubt. The defendant doesn't have to prove a thing in order to be acquitted.

However, if an alien is applying for an immigration benefit, including naturalization, the alien has the burden of proving eligibility for the benefit via a preponderance of the evidence. The government doesn't have to prove a thing in order to deny the benefit.

The Bart Simpson cliche, "they can't prove a thing", may mean you're immune from criminal prosecution, but it doesn't mean you'll be eligible for citizenship.

I LuciRich...

Thanks soo much for the very thoughtful replies...So say it does goes to courts and prosecutor can prove enough for a conviction,would;nt that mean..aquital?..and from what I've read,it seem they wont deny the application(awatiing the judges decision)..What i'm trying to say is that after aquital,would'nt that be a reason "not to deny"...?...

I hope all this nervousness I;m having would al just be speculations in the end...