Weary Democratic voters 'unimpressed' by both candidates

[PlatyPius 5]

My 14 year old step-son just walked in and summed it all up pretty well.

"Who won in Indiana?"

"Billary"

"By much?"

"No"

"So.... over half of Democrats in Indiana are dumb."

"Seems that way"

"McCain will probably get elected, won't he?"

"There's a good chance."

*pause*

"Americans are stupid."

"Yes, a lot of them are."

"They elected Bush twice."

"Yup"

"... Yes. Stupid."

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

"So.... over half of Democrats in Indiana are dumb."

In all fairness, 11% of the electorate that chimed in in Indiana were Republicans who broke 53 - 47 for Hillary.

That means that less than half the Dems in Indiana are dumb. The dumb minority just had some help from the other side.

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

McCain is a more formidable candidate than people here give him credit for

He's also got a lot more baggage than his supporters like to admit.

I think most of McCain's supporters, such as Gary, admit he has flaws. Most BO supporters think he can walk on water and then turn it into wine. They can't imagine that not everyone is as enthusiastic as they are for their candidate. These include older, blue collar voters who don't have problems voting for a Republican like McCain, people who probably supported Reagan in the 80s. BO will have problems gaining traction with these voters, especially of the specter of Rev. Wright hangs around for long.

There is more to McCain than flaws. He's not the centrist Maverick he likes to be seen as. Look as his record. This will be discussed in the course of the general election campaign. And much of it will make many Dems that backed Hillary twice about whether he's the better alternative to vote for.

That said, Barack Obama doesn't walk on water nor does he turn water into wine. But he has a gift of energizing and motivating people. A gift to effectively communicate ideas and visions that make people dream again and wanting to re-capture America. Does he have all the answers? No. Does he have the right answers for everyone? Of course not. Does he have an ability to bring people together and have them listen to one another? Many that have worked with him - Republicans, Democrats and Independents alike - say that they think he does. More so than Hillary or McCain who - in all fairness - both have shown that talent as well.

The Rev Wright? Let's just say that McCain has his own version of Rev. Wright. I don't think that McCain will go into this #######-for-tat nonsense. This is actually one of the things I kind of look forward to: two candidates running a campain on their platform rather than based on the destruction of the other person.

I think the "working across the aisle" argument McCain trumps both HRC and BO, I'm not sure I buy that BO has proven himself as the other 2 though he might not be as "divisive" a personality as the others.

I think your right in that I don't think McCain will make Rev. Wright an issue - but his surrogates will and Fox News has it as a rolling story almost every night. These things will matter, whether we like it or not.

The concern I hear most about BO is "he doesn't have the chops" - this is from people who will probably vote for him and some that will probably not. A lot of people (older, working class - people like my parents) like McCain in spite of teh arguments agaisnt him.

I'm not sure who will win, I just know it's not going to be that easy.

[GaryC 7]

McCain is a more formidable candidate than people here give him credit for

He's also got a lot more baggage than his supporters like to admit.

I think most of McCain's supporters, such as Gary, admit he has flaws. Most BO supporters think he can walk on water and then turn it into wine. They can't imagine that not everyone is as enthusiastic as they are for their candidate. These include older, blue collar voters who don't have problems voting for a Republican like McCain, people who probably supportered Reagan in the 80s. BO will have problems gaining traction with these voters, especially of the specter of Rev. Wright hangs around for long.

Robin, at this point in history and in the context of what is/has happened to this country, Michael Dukakis could be the Democratic nominee and we'd still win the White House. There's no divorcing McCain from Bush's failed policies and American voters have had enough of it. It's a simple as that.

Steve, I would have said the same thing in 2004 and look what happened. And unlike 4 years ago, Kerry was actually ahead in the polls until about September/October. I'm not saying it won't happen, I just think there is a lot of over-confidence here for a candidate theat never delivered th knock-out punch in his party's primaries.

It's not often I agree with Gary over you Steven, but this is one of those times

The feeling of confidence isn't based solely on warm fuzzy feelings of Obama - although his charisma, intelligence and great oratory skills are not to be underestimated...it's the record turnouts of newly registered Democrats, record breaking donations - in small amounts, by young people who now feel involved in the process....juxtaposed against a sitting President whose Party has squandered our future...things couldn't look brighter for the Democrats. However, I've been around long enough to know that both parties have a history of mucking things up, one way or another...if we win the White House and control Congress - we better damn well deliver on whatever we say we'll do.

McCain is a known quantity while Obama is totaly unknown. There will be very little in the way of surprises when it comes to McCain. His record is out there for all to see. The support he has right now is based on a firm knowledge of who he is, warts and all. The support for Obama is based solely on good speeches and promises of "change". That works well in a primary where he is talking to the dem base but when the general election comes he will need to reach the middle of the road types. They will not be so easly fooled like he has you. His record of straight down the line liberal votes will be put on display. That will go well for someone like you but for people that are in the middle it will be a huge turn off. McCain has a record of a more centrist voting record on some issues. When the moderates are given the choice of a far lefty and a right leaning centrist I doubt if many will go with Obama. You seem to think that Bush's legacy will somehow stick on McCain. I really doubt it. The only ones that see him as Bush III are those that are already going to vote for Obama. That isn't going to get him elected.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

McCain is a more formidable candidate than people here give him credit for

He's also got a lot more baggage than his supporters like to admit.

I think most of McCain's supporters, such as Gary, admit he has flaws. Most BO supporters think he can walk on water and then turn it into wine. They can't imagine that not everyone is as enthusiastic as they are for their candidate. These include older, blue collar voters who don't have problems voting for a Republican like McCain, people who probably supported Reagan in the 80s. BO will have problems gaining traction with these voters, especially of the specter of Rev. Wright hangs around for long.

There is more to McCain than flaws. He's not the centrist Maverick he likes to be seen as. Look as his record. This will be discussed in the course of the general election campaign. And much of it will make many Dems that backed Hillary twice about whether he's the better alternative to vote for.

That said, Barack Obama doesn't walk on water nor does he turn water into wine. But he has a gift of energizing and motivating people. A gift to effectively communicate ideas and visions that make people dream again and wanting to re-capture America. Does he have all the answers? No. Does he have the right answers for everyone? Of course not. Does he have an ability to bring people together and have them listen to one another? Many that have worked with him - Republicans, Democrats and Independents alike - say that they think he does. More so than Hillary or McCain who - in all fairness - both have shown that talent as well.

The Rev Wright? Let's just say that McCain has his own version of Rev. Wright. I don't think that McCain will go into this #######-for-tat nonsense. This is actually one of the things I kind of look forward to: two candidates running a campain on their platform rather than based on the destruction of the other person.

I think the "working across the aisle" argument McCain trumps both HRC and BO, I'm not sure I buy that BO has proven himself as the other 2 though he might not be as "divisive" a personality as the others.

I haven't worked with any of them so I am in no position to tell. I'll say it that if Sen. Hagel, for example, puts Obama over the other two in terms of being able to bring people together, that ought to count for something. There are other Republicans, Democrats and Independents that have said the same. These type of evaluations from people with first hand knowledge count more for me than what the media would like me to believe.

[dalegg 143]

Think about these-

Rasmussen Poll currently has

West Virginia

Hillary Clinton 56%

Barack Obama 27%

Unsure 17%

And consider this-

West Virginia By Race

White 1,718,777 95%

Black 57,232 3.2%

Pennsylvania By race

White 85.7%

Black 10.7%

Inidana By Race

5,575,402 88.3%

563,037 8.9%

North Carolina By Race

White 6,060,060 68.4%

Black 1,923,004 21.7%

See a trend here?

And by the way-

United States By Race.

White 237,854,954 80.2%

Black 37,909,341 12.8%

It's all there for Obama, but if he wins, Americans as a whole- Democrats, Republicans, and Independants, will all have to do what Democrats alone have not done yet. At this point, West Virginia is still for Clinton! What does that tell you? She's out of it!!! Race doesn't matter? I don't think so.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Think about these-

Rasmussen Poll currently has

West Virginia

Hillary Clinton 56%

Barack Obama 27%

Unsure 17%

WV has a "whopping" 39 delegates to distribute. KY has 60. Oregon, which votes on 20 May along with KY and where he is favored - has 61. It's the math that is heavily stacked against Clinton at this point - well it has been for some time but with the last two contests in the rear view mirror, there just isn't enough in terms of votes and pledged delegates out there to be had for her to catch up. There are six contests left and each is favored in three of them with Obama looking at a good chance of wrapping up the primary season on June 3 with a double win in SD and MT. He will then have won the majority of states, votes and delegates.

You're the go on saying that for Obama to win in November America needs to do what the Democrats have not? Given the solely race based stats you put up, I take it you are referring to voting across racial lines? I would encourage you to take a closer look at the contests as a whole and then tell me how KS, IA, ID, MO, VA, WI, WA, WY, UT, ND, NE, CO, MN, ME, DE, CT among others have put Obama on top and how he is favored in the contests still to be held in SD, OR and MT?

[Sheriff Uling 3]

The 571's will tear him a new azzhole in the general and all the charm in the world will not save him.

If you think McCain's gaffe's, plunders, flip-flopping and generally confused state of mind as of recent won't be exposed, you're seriously kidding yourself. And if you think McCain is about to have a cakewalk to 1600 Penn Ave, you're in for some bad news. The wind is going to start blowing. And it's going to come from 1200. As I said earlier, better get some strong folks behind the ole' man to make sure he don't fall over.

We shall see. My money is on McCain. I don't give Obama much of a chance.

Don't waste your money. McCain sucks! If you want to wager something, how about my proposition that McCain would be dead before the end of his first term by natural causes of course.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

The 571's will tear him a new azzhole in the general and all the charm in the world will not save him.

If you think McCain's gaffe's, plunders, flip-flopping and generally confused state of mind as of recent won't be exposed, you're seriously kidding yourself. And if you think McCain is about to have a cakewalk to 1600 Penn Ave, you're in for some bad news. The wind is going to start blowing. And it's going to come from 1200. As I said earlier, better get some strong folks behind the ole' man to make sure he don't fall over.

We shall see. My money is on McCain. I don't give Obama much of a chance.

Don't waste your money. McCain sucks! If you want to wager something, how about my proposition that McCain would be dead before the end of his first term by natural causes of course.

I wouldn't go that far. But remember that everyone said that a Clinton can't be beat - which made her the inevitable nominee. Yet here we are. Obama all but pulled it off. He outraised her, outperformed her and outmaneuvered her. That's gotta be tough enough. And McCain better take notice.

[dalegg 143]

You're the go on saying that for Obama to win in November America needs to do what the Democrats have not? Given the solely race based stats you put up, I take it you are referring to voting across racial lines? I would encourage you to take a closer look at the contests as a whole and then tell me how KS, IA, ID, MO, VA, WI, WA, WY, UT, ND, NE, CO, MN, ME, DE, CT among others have put Obama on top and how he is favored in the contests still to be held in SD, OR and MT?

After a day of analysis I think you are correct. A closer look shows that most of the States that follow that trend against him are not battle ground states anyway.

I actually see states that voted Republican in 2004 that Obama will take based on the trends we saw in the primaries- Colorado, Missouri, North Carolina, probably Iowa, and possibly Virginia. I'm flip flopping. I think you guys are right that this doesn't look good for McCain because I cannot really see where he's gonna turn a blue state red if he's running against Obama. It's crazy because his hopes lie really in California and Pennsylvania. The Demographics actually look good for McCain in Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and California if you base it on race, but I actually think Obama will take all of these.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

Barry, take my bank account its all yours! I am willing to give you everything as long as you can save me! :rofl:I want a green job.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Marc - if you want to be "saved", might I suggest a local church? Or the Salvation Army?