This really pisses me off...sigh....?

[Traviesa 0]

Sorry to butt in this thread, but I think this issue is a very interesting one. As someone who grew up being preached to that I needed a career and watching my working mother I was convinced that was the way to go. Now, it seems more and more often my peers who are starting to have kids are more apt to stay home with their kids. For some, this works out well because they took care of all their major financial responsibilities before giving birth plus her husband has an excellent military position. For another, she ended up slowly returning to work for the school that meets at my church building because they were having a harder time making ends meet. Well, now based on the examples set by my peers, my desires and goals have shifted a bit. Now I want to stay home with my kids-without exception. I want to raise them myself-not trust someone else to do it for me. Unfortunately, it occurs to me that many people may not have that luxury. What about the families who really couldn't make it on one income? My feeling is that women should stay home and raise their families but I'm starting to realize for some people that just isn't possible. And in those instances I think something needs to be done to allow those women at least the right to stay with their child through his/her first year. Ideally, through when the child starts school. That's just my opinion.

[pax 0]

One thing that Ewen and I have talked about is that when he does get a job over here, we're going to try to continue to live on one income as much as we can, and save/invest the rest of the money. We'd definitely like for one of us to be able to be a full-time parent.

Now I don't know if that plan will work. I don't know which of us will be making more money. And we don't know quite when we'll start having kids or how many we'll have! But it will be interesting to see if we can do it. Has anyone else tried this?

[Fischkoepfin 1]

Interesting article. I am in favor of paid maternity leave and I'm also in favor of splitting the leave between both parents.

In terms of paying for the maternity leave, women who work do pay taxes, etc., and thus they pay for the leave in advance. I don't think there is a way to take advantage of the system in this case as long as the money is only paid to women who actually have a baby and a job. People on unemployment/welfare would not be able to receive the benefit. It would also be good if the amount paid during the maternity leave would be close to the amount earned. That way noone would get screwed (people who don't have children themselves would basically help support the mother so that her kid would one day help them with their medicare or social security).

Splitting the leave between both parents (ideally over a longer period of time and not necessarily with a financial benefit in this case) would make childcare also a male responsibility. I already know that when we have children, I will try to get back to my job ASAP, but my husband would love to stay at home for a while. He can't do that though because he could lose his job.

[ChristinaM 0]

MissLiss, it's also important to remember that some people actually WANT to go back to work after they've had a baby!

Some people crave adult conversation and get a sense of personal satisfaction from work which they don't get from being a full-time parent. Not that being a new mom isn't satisfying, but in a different way. To have maternity leave which covers the pay (or at least a substancial chunk of it) would allow more women to be home for longer, to look after their newborn through it's first year, six months, whatever. But longer than 8 weeks.

[daisy16 0]

Sorry to butt in this thread, but I think this issue is a very interesting one. As someone who grew up being preached to that I needed a career and watching my working mother I was convinced that was the way to go. Now, it seems more and more often my peers who are starting to have kids are more apt to stay home with their kids. For some, this works out well because they took care of all their major financial responsibilities before giving birth plus her husband has an excellent military position. For another, she ended up slowly returning to work for the school that meets at my church building because they were having a harder time making ends meet. Well, now based on the examples set by my peers, my desires and goals have shifted a bit. Now I want to stay home with my kids-without exception. I want to raise them myself-not trust someone else to do it for me. Unfortunately, it occurs to me that many people may not have that luxury. What about the families who really couldn't make it on one income? My feeling is that women should stay home and raise their families but I'm starting to realize for some people that just isn't possible. And in those instances I think something needs to be done to allow those women at least the right to stay with their child through his/her first year. Ideally, through when the child starts school. That's just my opinion.

It's mho that kids are better off staying with a mom for a few years, at least as long as they're not parked infront of TV etc. 8 hours a day. My 12 years of teaching has shown me that there IS a difference between kids who had mom at home for a few years and kids who grew up in daycare. It's subtle, but obvious. Even with high school kids. I honestly think that some of the problems the US has with it's education levels reached and the detatchment of people from society, have a connection to mom's not being able to stay home with their kids.

I don't think they should have to, I think they should have the choice, which is a huge difference.

[joej 0]

I thought that getting my education pre having children was the right way to go. I did this and now owe thousands in student loans (not blaming anyone but myself here). To my surprise my employer did not care about my education and offered no benefit. I applied for various other positions and no luck so far (still looking though). Anyway the visa process took a major toll on our finances and hubby was not able to make it here till our baby was 3 mo old. All of this combined made it imperative that I return to work. Because I was above the limit for any kind of aid (barely above) I did not qualify for any kind of help. However if I quit my job then I would have gotten student grants, medical, food, cash, housing, etc. It seems kind of backwards to me. Yet, it would be nice just to know that ones job is secure for more than 12 weeks if he/she decides to stay at home longer, even without a cash benefit. I would like to take 6 months to 1 year off with our next child (whenever that may be), without loosing my job. Just "wishfull thinking" I guess.

[Fischkoepfin 1]

I just thought of another reason why a longer maternity leave would make sense: breast-feeding. I know from my work that there was a major uproar a few years ago when recent mothers brought their kids to work (finding childcare for a 12-week old is not that easy where I live in the US) and wondered whether it was ok to breastfeed them in the lounge (which is only accessible to other employees). Well, it wasn't and from that day on, they had to use the bathroom to feed their kids which is somewhat unhygienic and, given the high number of newborns that year, also made it tight and annoying for everyone else (except for the men who made the decision).

So, as long as society does not support new mothers by accepting the fact that there is nothing wrong with breast-feeding you child, maybe it would make sense to think about maternity leave as a way to keep breastfeeding mothers away from public sight. Breast-feeding is healthier than formula and since we're already discussing the importance of a tight connection between mother and child it's essential in forming bonds.

Now that that is out, I can finally admit that my mom did not stay at home for more than 6 weeks and that I wasn't breastfed either. We still have bonded somehow, and I was much more independent and self-reliant than my peers for most of my life.

Edited February 8, 2006 by Fischkoepfin

[joej 0]

I just thought of another reason why a longer maternity leave would make sense: breast-feeding. I know from my work that there was a major uproar a few years ago when recent mothers brought their kids to work (finding childcare for a 12-week old is not that easy where I live in the US) and wondered whether it was ok to breastfeed them in the lounge (which is only accessible to other employees). Well, it wasn't and from that day on, they had to use the bathroom to feed their kids which is somewhat unhygienic and, given the high number of newborns that year, also made it tight and annoying for everyone else (except for the men who made the decision).

So, as long as society does not support new mothers by accepting the fact that there is nothing wrong with breast-feeding you child, maybe it would make sense to think about maternity leave as a way to keep breastfeeding mothers away from public sight. Breast-feeding is healthier than formula and since we're already discussing the importance of a tight connection between mother and child it's essential in forming bonds.

Now that that is out, I can finally admit that my mom did not stay at home for more than 6 weeks and that I wasn't breastfed either. We still have bonded somehow, and I was much more independent and self-reliant than my peers for most of my life.

Oh ya that is a good point. I was all gung ho on the breast feeding thing till I went back to work (trying not to get too graphic here). Wow that really puts a damper on it. It is kind of hard to have it both ways. My hospital actually had a "Lactation team" of nurses and they strongly suggested it. Felt kind of like a failure when I had to go back to work. Sorry I guess I'm going off the topic.

[Jaylen Brit 0]

I did the breastfeeding until mine was 6 months old - after that it was fear of teeth but we are lucky in the UK that more and more places don't see breastfeeding as 'shocking' or 'unsuitable' - cos you know its fine to have breasts plastered all over magazines and newspapers and on beaches but not to use them for what tehy were DESIGNED for. /rant

Friend of mine got very rudely treated in Calif. for breatsfeeding in public (she had a very loose shirt on and really you can barely see the baby's head let alone anything else, and it was near the beach but not right on a public walkway) by another WOMAN who said 'her child did not need to see this' DEAR GOD... makes you despair sometimes.

I'm off topic totally now aren't I?

[Traviesa 0]

Clmarsh, I had also always thought I would WANT to return to work after having kids. The friend of mine who stays home with her two kids has an aquaintance through her husband's job who said she absolutely couldn't imagine staying home with the kids because it would drive her nuts. My friend's response to that is, then why have kids? Why have them if you don't really want them and don't want to raise them? If in fact, you don't enjoy their company and don't really like them? And it made sense to me when she said that. In fact, it started to seem counterintuitive for a woman who feels that way to have kids in the first place.

[pax 0]

The friend of mine who stays home with her two kids has an aquaintance through her husband's job who said she absolutely couldn't imagine staying home with the kids because it would drive her nuts. My friend's response to that is, then why have kids? Why have them if you don't really want them and don't want to raise them? If in fact, you don't enjoy their company and don't really like them? And it made sense to me when she said that. In fact, it started to seem counterintuitive for a woman who feels that way to have kids in the first place.

It might, but you're making a big leap from this one acquaintance of yours to assume that every mother who works, or wishes she could work, is driven nuts by her children or doesn't like them. Women have a wide range of rational motivations for perfectly good decisions, and while she may both like and love her children very much, she may also wish to pursue intellectual and professional goals. And it's quite possible for women to pursue those goals without shortchanging children, provided more businesses and governmental agencies decide to cooperate--job sharing, sabbaticals, telecommuting, extended and protected maternity leave... Not to mention the fact that plenty of fathers would welcome the opportunity to become full-time parents, and two intelligent, loving people may decide that it's better for their particular family for the woman to work outside the home while the father works inside it.

There is more than one way to be a good mother, and while I certainly respect the choice of any woman who decides that she would be most satisfied as a full-time stay-at-home parent, it is not the only choice, nor should it be. And women who explore other arrangements should not be made to feel as though they are bad mothers, or bad people, for doing so.

[Traviesa 0]

The friend of mine who stays home with her two kids has an aquaintance through her husband's job who said she absolutely couldn't imagine staying home with the kids because it would drive her nuts. My friend's response to that is, then why have kids? Why have them if you don't really want them and don't want to raise them? If in fact, you don't enjoy their company and don't really like them? And it made sense to me when she said that. In fact, it started to seem counterintuitive for a woman who feels that way to have kids in the first place.

It might, but you're making a big leap from this one acquaintance of yours to assume that every mother who works, or wishes she could work, is driven nuts by her children or doesn't like them. Women have a wide range of rational motivations for perfectly good decisions, and while she may both like and love her children very much, she may also wish to pursue intellectual and professional goals. And it's quite possible for women to pursue those goals without shortchanging children, provided more businesses and governmental agencies decide to cooperate--job sharing, sabbaticals, telecommuting, extended and protected maternity leave... Not to mention the fact that plenty of fathers would welcome the opportunity to become full-time parents, and two intelligent, loving people may decide that it's better for their particular family for the woman to work outside the home while the father works inside it.

There is more than one way to be a good mother, and while I certainly respect the choice of any woman who decides that she would be most satisfied as a full-time stay-at-home parent, it is not the only choice, nor should it be. And women who explore other arrangements should not be made to feel as though they are bad mothers, or bad people, for doing so.

I agree with you to a certain extent. Of course, you have to keep in mind that my friend is very extreme in her view on this. For the longest time, she would not even leave her children with a babysitter. She said it killed her to think that her kids were miserable just so she could go out and have a good time. And as such, she never had a good time. Lately, she has started to go do things by herself more and more often. I won't say she's any happier about it, but she's getting used to it.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

There is more than one way to be a good mother, and while I certainly respect the choice of any woman who decides that she would be most satisfied as a full-time stay-at-home parent, it is not the only choice, nor should it be. And women who explore other arrangements should not be made to feel as though they are bad mothers, or bad people, for doing so.

Hear, hear! My mom worked while we grew up. Not because she wanted to but because she had to for my parents to make ends meet. That doesn't mean she has not been a good mom. Quite the opposite: My mom is a saint.

Edited February 9, 2006 by ET-US2004

[pax 0]

My mom also worked after myself and my first sister were born. She stayed home for the first few years with us, but started working a year or two before my second sister was born, and worked almost straight through after my second sister and my brother as well. And she's worked ever since.

In fact, I admire my mom more for taking the time to go back to school and improve her education and career prospects.

[Traviesa 0]

My mom worked too. She had to. She went back to work when I was less than 2 months old and as such I was raised by family friends who had 3 kids of their own. My mom missed such things as my first word, my first steps, etc. I know she had no choice at the time, but I'm sure she wishes she had been able to be there for those things. Doesn't mean she's not a good mother-on the contrary, she and I are very good friends.