Am I the only one,

[mawilson 2,133]

I live in a very middle class town in central Jersey and average household income here is around 150k. You can't afford much at all with 150k.

I know.

[Rocketta 0]

I've found that because people are so negative that when problems come up you're more likely to try to deal with it on your own as opposed to talking to your family or friends because you just don't want to hear it.

[StillThePrettiest 3]

...The whole attitude is 'if I'm okay that's all that matters to me'! It's always been the 'American way' that you work hard and you reap the rewards. Nowadays I see and hear so many people pounding their chests about how hard they've worked for their comfort and how nobody damned well try to take it away from them. I wonder whatever happened to 'but there by the Grace of God go I'?

It's as if the poor are symbolic to these people of their own success - like a public scourge that's a testament to sloth and laziness rather than a widening gap between the haves, the have nots, and the nasty little thing called 'life' that sometimes spells the difference between the two. Sad really.

I am SO with you on the above

the other thing that irks me no end about such attitudes - and of course they're not confined to the US, though I HAVE heard them more from your countrymen than others - is what 'hard work' even means to them... many of the people who say things like this DO work damned hard, but from what starting point? a birth in which neither mother nor child died, a reasonably safe and healthy upbringing, an education beyond primary level, clean and fresh water - these are things we EXPECT, and which are just the starting point for many to build on... and all power to them, if they do, and move upwards from that point, but they're working hard from an extremely advantaged starting point, which is denied many

and I don't even really want people to do much more than recognise that (though doing more than that would be just wonderful ) but so many won't even do that... makes me mad, and sad, at the same time

[Caladan 19]

Usually 'average' is defined on a number of factors common to both countries. Things like educational attainment of citizenry, access to health care, quality of health care, infant and child mortality, GDP per capita, income distribution, life expectancy, pollution, crime rate, infrastructure, all manner of things. One has to watch what's being measured, of course, when assigning 'better' and 'worse' to it, but that's a lot different from 'I'm sure there is one person in Amsterdam who is homeless and there is a rich person in the U.S. so any comparison of average lifestyle is meaningless.'

(And indeed, on this vast and wonderful internet, there are cost-of-living calculators that would tell you how much you would need to make in New York to live in your accustomed style in Austin. Comparisons aren't meaningless.)

I never said "comparisons are meaningless." All I'm stating is that it's wrong to assign a static number to a concept as fluid as "average," that's all. If you wish to do so, that's fine by me. I can't force you to change, but in the meantime, don't expect me to believe anything you or anyone else says simply because "this number here says so!" I'd need to know the background behind that number before I could come to any sort of conclusion.

There is, of course, a difference between asking 'By what metric is the average person in the Netherlands better off than the average person in the U.S?" and "there are homeless people there and they're not better off than our rich people, so one cannot say anything about the average person."

---

rebeccajo, it's like a myth. If someone ends up in a bad place, it's necessarily because of their own choices; luck, or timing, or disproportionate consequences never come into it. It's like a security blanket.

[mawilson 2,133]

rebeccajo, it's like a myth. If someone ends up in a bad place, it's necessarily because of their own choices; luck, or timing, or disproportionate consequences never come into it. It's like a security blanket.

No, Caladan, your own choices is what gets you *out* of a bad place.

[StillThePrettiest 3]

sometimes... but sometimes all the choices you've got are bad, eg if you're living on less than $1 per day, like more than a BILLION people in the world today, your choices are going to be somewhat limited...

[mawilson 2,133]

sometimes... but sometimes all the choices you've got are bad, eg if you're living on less than $1 per day, like more than a BILLION people in the world today, your choices are going to be somewhat limited...

I thought we were talking about the poor in America.

[Imua 0]

i wish i was the person who thought an annual income of $250,000 was average.

I'm pretty sure it is around here (or at least $150,000).

Maybe in your circles, but(according to Wikipedia) "In 2006 the average weekly wage in Manhattan was $1,453". That works out to a little less than $36K per year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City...rk#Demographics

That is about $6K less than what I make working as a librarian. This figure doesn't even include the puter boros, which would make the figure skew even lower. Also, you have more trust fund and investment parasites in Manhattan, who don't recieve wages. A more interesting figure would be average net worth in Manhattan/NYC.

Lots more of us struggling folks than overpaid Wall St. azzholes, even in the rich, increasingly white enclave of Manhattan.

Edited May 7, 2008 by Pattu Rani

[Imua 0]

I've found that because people are so negative that when problems come up you're more likely to try to deal with it on your own as opposed to talking to your family or friends because you just don't want to hear it.

True - if things aren't 100% wonderful they always revert to the default response 'Divorce him - he's only using you for a greencard!!!' I wonder what they would say if he was a USC??

[Rocketta 0]

I've found that because people are so negative that when problems come up you're more likely to try to deal with it on your own as opposed to talking to your family or friends because you just don't want to hear it.

True - if things aren't 100% wonderful they always revert to the default response 'Divorce him - he's only using you for a greencard!!!' I wonder what they would say if he was a USC??

They would say to work it out, you made a committment.

[doodlebugg 10]

i wish i was the person who thought an annual income of $250,000 was average.

I'm pretty sure it is around here (or at least $150,000).

Maybe in your circles, but(according to Wikipedia) "In 2006 the average weekly wage in Manhattan was $1,453". That works out to a little less than $36K per year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City...rk#Demographics

That is about $6K less than what I make working as a librarian. This figure doesn't even include the puter boros, which would make the figure skew even lower. Also, you have more trust fund and investment parasites in Manhattan, who don't recieve wages. A more interesting figure would be average net worth in Manhattan/NYC.

Lots more of us struggling folks than overpaid Wall St. azzholes, even in the rich, increasingly white enclave of Manhattan.

how does $1,453/week = less than $36k/yr?

[Hanna&Mohamed 0]

Yes us also to! Mohamed wanted me to move there and live.

[Nasturtium 500]

Yes us also to! Mohamed wanted me to move there and live.

Melinda-- I know you said before you have an apartment there so I was curious why you didn't move. I know housing is a major cost of relocating to another country. That was what held us up from me moving there. We didn't have the 40k or so to buy either a house in the village or an apartment, so we're working on that now.

[Imua 0]

i wish i was the person who thought an annual income of $250,000 was average.

I'm pretty sure it is around here (or at least $150,000).

Maybe in your circles, but(according to Wikipedia) "In 2006 the average weekly wage in Manhattan was $1,453". That works out to a little less than $36K per year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City...rk#Demographics

That is about $6K less than what I make working as a librarian. This figure doesn't even include the puter boros, which would make the figure skew even lower. Also, you have more trust fund and investment parasites in Manhattan, who don't recieve wages. A more interesting figure would be average net worth in Manhattan/NYC.

Lots more of us struggling folks than overpaid Wall St. azzholes, even in the rich, increasingly white enclave of Manhattan.

how does $1,453/week = less than $36k/yr?

D'oh - I hadn't been sufficiently caffeinated at the time I wrote that - I think I read it as $1,453 a paycheck... My mistake.

D@mn I really am poor.... I don't live in Manhattan though....

Edited May 7, 2008 by Pattu Rani

[Nasturtium 500]

D'oh - I hadn't been sufficiently caffeinated at the time I wrote that - I think I read it as $1,453 a paycheck... My mistake.

D@mn I really am poor.... I don't live in Manhattan though....

LOL the two of us combined don't even make that much!