Oh, it's this again.....

[Heracles 417]

And? Isn't the point to create spenders here and there on our "stuff"?

I also include services beyond manufacture, like... finances, trade, and multinational economics that go beyond a product based service industry. Then again, the USA is a major provider of products to plenty of parts of the world, so opening up a citizenship by prosperity, you increase the demand for said products. That is supply and demand.

The US is now a service based economy. So your logic does not add up. Illegal Immigrants are not going to be using E*trade or buying healthcare stock, for example.

There is also the fact the illegal immigrants are costing the united states billions every year

Here are some facts on what illegal immigrants are taking from American taxpayers..

• $12,000,000,000 annual cost to America to educate the kids of illegal aliens.
• another $17,000,000,000 to pay for educating the anchor babies of illegal aliens.
• 30% of FEDERAL PRISONERS are not US citizens.
• American taxpayers spend $3,300,000 every day to house non-us citizen prisoners.

$400,000,000,000 estimated 10 year cost

Low skilled households:

• Pay $9,689 in taxes
• Receive $32,138 in benefits.

-----

Is that the same Fox news source? This is what I read on the website today

Nah from CNN.

[Heracles 417]

And? Isn't the point to create spenders here and there on our "stuff"?

I also include services beyond manufacture, like... finances, trade, and multinational economics that go beyond a product based service industry. Then again, the USA is a major provider of products to plenty of parts of the world, so opening up a citizenship by prosperity, you increase the demand for said products. That is supply and demand.

The US is now a service based economy. So your logic does not add up. Illegal Immigrants are not going to be using E*trade or buying healthcare stock, for example.

There is also the fact the illegal immigrants are costing the united states billions every year

Here are some facts on what illegal immigrants are taking from American taxpayers..

• $12,000,000,000 annual cost to America to educate the kids of illegal aliens.
• another $17,000,000,000 to pay for educating the anchor babies of illegal aliens.
• 30% of FEDERAL PRISONERS are not US citizens.
• American taxpayers spend $3,300,000 every day to house non-us citizen prisoners.

$400,000,000,000 estimated 10 year cost

Low skilled households:

• Pay $9,689 in taxes
• Receive $32,138 in benefits.

You argue against illegals based on they being HERE- fine. I argue against illegals based on their NOT NEEDING to be here. Get it?

Those drain numbers, then, simply don't NEED to be there under my argument. Do they? Simple logic.

Not needing to get here. Immigration is a fact of life. There will always be countries that are better than others. The US needs to build a wall to stop people from simply walking over. It also needs to start enforcing the current laws as well as follow the UK's lead mentioned in the previous posts.

And why is what you are proposing not advocated by any other OECD nation.

Edited May 2, 2008 by Boo-Yah!

[Jack and Barbara 0]

[quote name='Boo-

Is that the same Fox news source? This is what I read on the website today

Nah from CNN.

Would you mind sending the link. Sounds like a worthwhile read.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

$24 billion was for the whole of 2007, not the first quarter of this year.

What is so funny. Is $24 billion irrelevant.

Put it this way - its slightly more irrelevant than $96 billion

Where would you like me to send this....?

Reading Comprehension Success in 20 Minutes a Day

[HAL 9000 96]

And? Isn't the point to create spenders here and there on our "stuff"?

I also include services beyond manufacture, like... finances, trade, and multinational economics that go beyond a product based service industry. Then again, the USA is a major provider of products to plenty of parts of the world, so opening up a citizenship by prosperity, you increase the demand for said products. That is supply and demand.

The US is now a service based economy. So your logic does not add up. Illegal Immigrants are not going to be using E*trade or buying healthcare stock, for example.

There is also the fact the illegal immigrants are costing the united states billions every year

Here are some facts on what illegal immigrants are taking from American taxpayers..

• $12,000,000,000 annual cost to America to educate the kids of illegal aliens.
• another $17,000,000,000 to pay for educating the anchor babies of illegal aliens.
• 30% of FEDERAL PRISONERS are not US citizens.
• American taxpayers spend $3,300,000 every day to house non-us citizen prisoners.

$400,000,000,000 estimated 10 year cost

Low skilled households:

• Pay $9,689 in taxes
• Receive $32,138 in benefits.

You argue against illegals based on they being HERE- fine. I argue against illegals based on their NOT NEEDING to be here. Get it?

Those drain numbers, then, simply don't NEED to be there under my argument. Do they? Simple logic.

Not needing to get here. Immigration is a fact of life. There will always be countries that are better than others. The US needs to build a wall to stop people from simply walking over. It also needs to start enforcing the current laws as well as follow the UK's lead mentioned in the previous posts.

And why is what you are proposing not advocated by any other OECD nation.

Legal immigration is. Illegal? Well... that's what we're talking about right?

I think I stated quite clearly, enforcement and border security are only good if there's something to combat. Take away the root cause of the illegal immigration and *problem solved*. We are not talking about one country being better than another- we are talking about taking away the necessity for many illegals to come here, specifically.

As for other nations not supporting my idea. Well. Maybe its because there is not sufficient political will to do what is logical. These are, after all, governments.

[Heracles 417]

Would you mind sending the link. Sounds like a worthwhile read.

I got the info from here:

Plus you also have the following report found in this thread:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...t&p=1779392

To place this human flood into perspective, on average, the United States government allows 182,000 legal and illegal alien immigrants into this country every month. They total 2.2 million added people each year, year in and year out. None of them possess jobs when they enter this country. The illegal alien migrants cost U.S. taxpayers $346 billion annually as shown in this report.

.....

Kansas state universities currently have more than 9,000 students enrolled who are identified as non-U.S. citizens,†Rubenstein said. “During the fall of 2004, illegal alien students received taxpayer-subsidized tuition reductions of more than $3,000.00 in three of the state's major colleges ¦thus Kansas expressly rewards aliens who have violated federal law by giving them a taxpayer subsidy that is denied to lawful American citizens or legal immigrants.

[Heracles 417]

Put it this way - its slightly more irrelevant than $96 billion

Come on now. I know your style. I answered your question directly and provided evidence to back it up yet you rebutted it, again. Now you are arguing the relevance of $24 billion. Therefore I could waste my time and show you how many jobs each $1 billion injected into the economy generates but I am sure you will rebut that as well.

As for other nations not supporting my idea. Well. Maybe its because there is not sufficient political will to do what is logical. These are, after all, governments.

Hmm You sound like you have been listening to Wright's sermons.

Edited May 2, 2008 by Boo-Yah!

[Jack and Barbara 0]

Sorry but I could not see the link. I find it interesting though that the other report quotes that...

"Kansas state universities currently have more than 9,000 students enrolled who are identified as non-U.S. citizens," Rubenstein said.

How this is relevant to the illegal immigrant debate is beyond me because my fiancee and many other VJ members SOs will be visa holders, conditional permanent residnets, and/or permanent residents for the 3-5 years before they get citizenship. This means they would be considered in the aforementined statistic if they went to Kansas State. Maybe the person who did the report should have checked and verified that the 9,000 students were illegal immigrants (as opposed to legal K1, K3, F1, J1, CR1, etc... holders). The number might be a lot less and the reward per illegal immigrant might be a lot less.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Put it this way - its slightly more irrelevant than $96 billion

Come on now. I know your style. I answered your question directly and provided evidence to back it up yet you rebutted it, again. Now you are arguing the relevance of $24 billion. Therefore I could waste my time and show you how many jobs each $1 billion injected into the economy generates but I am sure you will rebut that as well.

I don't think the $24 billion is irrelevant. But your inaccurate reading of that article erroneously inflated that figure fourfold.

I will say however that we could (easily) dig up billions of $ if we so wanted. In fact, that could be raised almost overnight by cutting back on a fraction of the many hundred billion we spend on defence budgets and foreign wars.

$24bn is, BTW a very small fraction of the US' total GDP.

Edited May 2, 2008 by Number 6

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

... that could be raised almost overnight by cutting back on a fraction of the many hundred billion we spend on defence budgets and foreign wars.

But then the Mooslems would win and we'd all have to learn Arabic and wear turbans

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

... that could be raised almost overnight by cutting back on a fraction of the many hundred billion we spend on defence budgets and foreign wars.

But then the Mooslems would win and we'd all have to learn Arabic and wear turbans

Muslim mooses?

[HAL 9000 96]

Put it this way - its slightly more irrelevant than $96 billion

Come on now. I know your style. I answered your question directly and provided evidence to back it up yet you rebutted it, again. Now you are arguing the relevance of $24 billion. Therefore I could waste my time and show you how many jobs each $1 billion injected into the economy generates but I am sure you will rebut that as well.

As for other nations not supporting my idea. Well. Maybe its because there is not sufficient political will to do what is logical. These are, after all, governments.

Hmm You sound like you have been listening to Wright's sermons.

Um... [?]

[HAL 9000 96]

Sorry but I could not see the link. I find it interesting though that the other report quotes that...

"Kansas state universities currently have more than 9,000 students enrolled who are identified as non-U.S. citizens," Rubenstein said.

How this is relevant to the illegal immigrant debate is beyond me because my fiancee and many other VJ members SOs will be visa holders, conditional permanent residnets, and/or permanent residents for the 3-5 years before they get citizenship. This means they would be considered in the aforementined statistic if they went to Kansas State. Maybe the person who did the report should have checked and verified that the 9,000 students were illegal immigrants (as opposed to legal K1, K3, F1, J1, CR1, etc... holders). The number might be a lot less and the reward per illegal immigrant might be a lot less.

Well one way that it can get looked at is that if they are illegals and are in college, that must mean that they'll be competing for those "untouchable" liberal jobs that some of us are apparently holding.

Or the more logical... at least they can return to their countries with a degree which if my idea were to gain any actual political momentum, would mean that they'd be contributing to improving conditions at home and by consequence... reducing illegal immigration. Go figure.

Put it this way - its slightly more irrelevant than $96 billion

Come on now. I know your style. I answered your question directly and provided evidence to back it up yet you rebutted it, again. Now you are arguing the relevance of $24 billion. Therefore I could waste my time and show you how many jobs each $1 billion injected into the economy generates but I am sure you will rebut that as well.

I don't think the $24 billion is irrelevant. But your inaccurate reading of that article erroneously inflated that figure fourfold.

I will say however that we could (easily) dig up billions of $ if we so wanted. In fact, that could be raised almost overnight by cutting back on a fraction of the many hundred billion we spend on defence budgets and foreign wars.

$24bn is, BTW a very small fraction of the US' total GDP.

Like I mentioned way back. How many billions are we squandering per month in Iraq?

[Ban Hammer 13,977]

... that could be raised almost overnight by cutting back on a fraction of the many hundred billion we spend on defence budgets and foreign wars.

But then the Mooslems would win and we'd all have to learn Arabic and wear turbans

is that much of a change for you?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Like I mentioned way back. How many billions are we squandering per month in Iraq?

What about all those American tourists spending all their hard-earned currency abroad?

I'm willing to bet that the American tourists spend way more $$$ than $24bn.