Poor people

[Jenn! 918]

Someone is always going to be poor. Sure, any given person may rise above, but someone's gotta fall to take their place.

This is capitalism. How can one say that the system isn't set up to create the haves and the have-nots?

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

You don't get things handed to you in the US. You do have to work for it. I believe the 'poor' can break the cycle of poverty but it takes a particular kind of drive.

I agree.

I don't think the streets are paved with gold over here.

I agree.

I do think you can rise above whatever hand the fates have dealt you. But it's not handed to you.

Again, I agree.

[chri'stina 190]

I do agree that the streets are not made of gold here, and it takes a lot of hard work to succeed for some while others do seem to have it much easier.

A fairer comparison would be between the poor in India (who stay there) and the poor here.

There is no comparison between poor in Indonesia & poor in US. I cannot compare India as I have been only to Mumbai once, but comparing poor in US & in Indonesia, you could not even compare.

That's why everytime I hear somebody in my husband family complaining her food stamp money does not cover a lot, I just shut up. I have different definition of poor.

The poverty in India is heart wrenching. I've seen what passes for 'poor' in America, it is a joke. They're not poor.

I agree...and when Suj first moved here and I showed him areas considered kind of poor he said it looked like it would be an excellent place to live by India's standards.

I know though that doesn't help the US's poor by talking about another nation, but still it's something to think about sometimes.

Edited May 1, 2008 by stina&suj

[tom&tata 2]

Nessa -

I agree with AJ. That was a great post and I enjoyed reading your thoughts.

AJ and others -

I remember having several conversations with Wes before he came here about what it takes to make it in the US. As you know he's from the UK, and conversely to Brazil and India, the 'social infrastructure' in the UK is probably better than in the US. You can draw unemployment over there with no time limits; receive job seekers allowance; the governement will assist in rent and mortgage payments if you are out of work; nationalized medicine; etc. In other words, the only way you can end up homeless in the UK is if you choose to be.

You don't get things handed to you in the US. You do have to work for it. I believe the 'poor' can break the cycle of poverty but it takes a particular kind of drive. The handouts we do have available sometimes make it too easy to stay within the system - the handouts in the UK make it downright dumb to get out of the system.

I don't think the streets are paved with gold over here. But I do think you can rise above whatever hand the fates have dealt you. But it's not handed to you.

I agree. I am lucky that I do not have to do that. My grandparents did it for us. We are now just continuing the cycle.

[Peikko 1,575]

Nessa -

I agree with AJ. That was a great post and I enjoyed reading your thoughts.

AJ and others -

I remember having several conversations with Wes before he came here about what it takes to make it in the US. As you know he's from the UK, and conversely to Brazil and India, the 'social infrastructure' in the UK is probably better than in the US. You can draw unemployment over there with no time limits; receive job seekers allowance; the governement will assist in rent and mortgage payments if you are out of work; nationalized medicine; etc. In other words, the only way you can end up homeless in the UK is if you choose to be.

You don't get things handed to you in the US. You do have to work for it. I believe the 'poor' can break the cycle of poverty but it takes a particular kind of drive. The handouts we do have available sometimes make it too easy to stay within the system - the handouts in the UK make it downright dumb to get out of the system.

I don't think the streets are paved with gold over here. But I do think you can rise above whatever hand the fates have dealt you. But it's not handed to you.

There is nothing fun about living on unemployment benefit. It is not a 'good' life and I don't know one person in the UK who would prefer to be living off income support/unemployment benefit rather than working to earn a living and get the most out of life. I am not saying that people like this don't exist but they are by far the exception and moreover, there is a communality in these folks, for the most part, those who don't seek to end a life on benefits have mental health issues.

Some people do rise above the hand that fate deals them, and that's great, but many more do not and as I said before, that they do not is not because they want to be poor or that they don't work extremely hard.

[Peikko 1,575]

These stories of rags to riches are always wonderful and I am sure everyone is happy to see that sometimes luck, hard work and resourcefulness pay off. Sadly though, for every story like this, and they are inspiring, you will have a 1000 more stories where the person works exceptionally hard and doesn't make it or at least doesn't make it out of being poor. You don't hear about them because who wants to read about the Joe Blogs who works 16 hour days and remains piss poor all their life?

Rags to riches stories are very common here in our immigrant communities, PH. I'm sorry if that shatters your worldview.

How does that shatter my world view? Because it's common it makes it a universal truth? There may be things about the 'immigrant community' that are different. For example, the immigrants may be better educated than their US counterparts. The 'rags to riches' immigrants may stick together leaving the 'didn't make it' immigrants to move in different circles or return to their birth place. There could be a number of reasons that neither of us are aware of that account for this percieved discrepancy.

[rebeccajo 14]

Nessa -

I agree with AJ. That was a great post and I enjoyed reading your thoughts.

AJ and others -

I remember having several conversations with Wes before he came here about what it takes to make it in the US. As you know he's from the UK, and conversely to Brazil and India, the 'social infrastructure' in the UK is probably better than in the US. You can draw unemployment over there with no time limits; receive job seekers allowance; the governement will assist in rent and mortgage payments if you are out of work; nationalized medicine; etc. In other words, the only way you can end up homeless in the UK is if you choose to be.

You don't get things handed to you in the US. You do have to work for it. I believe the 'poor' can break the cycle of poverty but it takes a particular kind of drive. The handouts we do have available sometimes make it too easy to stay within the system - the handouts in the UK make it downright dumb to get out of the system.

I don't think the streets are paved with gold over here. But I do think you can rise above whatever hand the fates have dealt you. But it's not handed to you.

There is nothing fun about living on unemployment benefit. It is not a 'good' life and I don't know one person in the UK who would prefer to be living off income support/unemployment benefit rather than working to earn a living and get the most out of life. I am not saying that people like this don't exist but they are by far the exception and moreover, there is a communality in these folks, for the most part, those who don't seek to end a life on benefits have mental health issues.

Some people do rise above the hand that fate deals them, and that's great, but many more do not and as I said before, that they do not is not because they want to be poor or that they don't work extremely hard.

PH -

There are people on both sides of the pond who will remain in the system.

IMO though, in the US it is those with mental health issues we often see literally living on the streets. In the UK they would at least be inside their council house - warm and dry.

And in the UK, there is no bankruptcy or poverty due to health costs. In the US, a new class of working poor is being created by this issue.

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

These stories of rags to riches are always wonderful and I am sure everyone is happy to see that sometimes luck, hard work and resourcefulness pay off. Sadly though, for every story like this, and they are inspiring, you will have a 1000 more stories where the person works exceptionally hard and doesn't make it or at least doesn't make it out of being poor. You don't hear about them because who wants to read about the Joe Blogs who works 16 hour days and remains piss poor all their life?

Rags to riches stories are very common here in our immigrant communities, PH. I'm sorry if that shatters your worldview.

How does that shatter my world view? Because it's common it makes it a universal truth? There may be things about the 'immigrant community' that are different. For example, the immigrants may be better educated than their US counterparts. The 'rags to riches' immigrants may stick together leaving the 'didn't make it' immigrants to move in different circles or return to their birth place. There could be a number of reasons that neither of us are aware of that account for this percieved discrepancy.

I think the difference here is the family cohesiveness in immigrant communities, especially Asians that you often don't have for a lot of poor Americans where there is no father present or family network to rely upon.

[Peikko 1,575]

Nessa -

I agree with AJ. That was a great post and I enjoyed reading your thoughts.

AJ and others -

I remember having several conversations with Wes before he came here about what it takes to make it in the US. As you know he's from the UK, and conversely to Brazil and India, the 'social infrastructure' in the UK is probably better than in the US. You can draw unemployment over there with no time limits; receive job seekers allowance; the governement will assist in rent and mortgage payments if you are out of work; nationalized medicine; etc. In other words, the only way you can end up homeless in the UK is if you choose to be.

You don't get things handed to you in the US. You do have to work for it. I believe the 'poor' can break the cycle of poverty but it takes a particular kind of drive. The handouts we do have available sometimes make it too easy to stay within the system - the handouts in the UK make it downright dumb to get out of the system.

I don't think the streets are paved with gold over here. But I do think you can rise above whatever hand the fates have dealt you. But it's not handed to you.

There is nothing fun about living on unemployment benefit. It is not a 'good' life and I don't know one person in the UK who would prefer to be living off income support/unemployment benefit rather than working to earn a living and get the most out of life. I am not saying that people like this don't exist but they are by far the exception and moreover, there is a communality in these folks, for the most part, those who don't seek to end a life on benefits have mental health issues.

Some people do rise above the hand that fate deals them, and that's great, but many more do not and as I said before, that they do not is not because they want to be poor or that they don't work extremely hard.

PH -

There are people on both sides of the pond who will remain in the system.

IMO though, in the US it is those with mental health issues we often see literally living on the streets. In the UK they would at least be inside their council house - warm and dry.

And in the UK, there is no bankruptcy or poverty due to health costs. In the US, a new class of working poor is being created by this issue.

I agree completely and I want to see those with mental health issues off the streets and preferably being treated so that they are not a danger either to themselves or other people. Sadly, mental health is even today an area where people want to 'brush it under the carpet' as being an uncomfortable subject.

Some form of health care that allows everyone to get the care they require, regardless of their circumstances, without it leading to poverty is essential in the US in my opinion.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Nessa, if you don't mind me asking...do you come from an upper class family in Brazil?

If this was a poll about poors in Brazil, I'd definitely vote for an option that the system drags you down, because that's the reality in Brazil. But I don't think that's the reality here in the States. I believe there are exceptions, there are cases that due to certain life events, situations, they wind up being poor. But most of people can make it if they try very hard and that the system is not an issue. An example, Charles could be considered poor when he came back from Germany and his wife had screwed him over and over, and not in the good sense , and he went bankrupt. He started all over again, and now he has a pretty decent life.

Now answering your question, even though I had a pretty good life, that took my parents some serious hardwork, it wasn't something handled to them. And although it's very hard for you to make it if you start from nothing, my dad did it. He's one of those macho kind of man that has too much pride so he left his parents house to start his life with nothing just so he could make it on his own, because even though my grandparents were in a good financial situation he wanted to make it by himself. He tells me stories about going to job interviews and putting lots of sugar at his coffee when they offered that to him just so he could put something on his stomach, cuz he could barely afford food. But he made it. That allowed him to provide his family a very good life. Both my parents worked very hard to provide for their family. I can't complain. I've only studied in private schools/universities, my dad was able to pay for several extra curricular classes, like piano, gymnastics, ballet, several other dancing and martial arts classes, English, etc. We could afford a good apartment in a good neighboorhood, a car, education, vacation trips, country club membership, etc. But that was possible with hardwork in the past. That was the 70's. Nowadays things are way more complicated. I don't entirely blame the system, cuz there are too many lazy and screwed up people in Brazil, but the way things work in Brazil don't help at all. The government corruption and incompetence really makes it difficult and even impossible for many people.

I've talked too much. Now to my final words. How dare you American Citizens blame the system? This is the land of opportunity, you can make it if you really want

Thanks for sharing your family's experience, Nessa.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Someone is always going to be poor. Sure, any given person may rise above, but someone's gotta fall to take their place.

This is capitalism. How can one say that the system isn't set up to create the haves and the have-nots?

I agree, unless there are regulations that prevent the siphoning of the wealth to the top.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

And in the UK, there is no bankruptcy or poverty due to health costs. In the US, a new class of working poor is being created by this issue.

That's a very good point - and its frankly disgusting that a person (rather - an entire family) can be reduced to utter destitution because one of them happens to get sick. And its not like you can plan for that sort of thing - you can squirrel money away in savings accounts, but a few thousand you're likely to put away won't pay for much of anything, certainly not the treatment of a serious or chronic condition like cancer.

It can be a harsh and brutal system if you're caught on the wrong side of the fence.

[Ban Hammer 13,352]

An example, Charles could be considered poor when he came back from Germany and his wife had screwed him over and over, and not in the good sense , and he went bankrupt. He started all over again, and now he has a pretty decent life.

actually, i didn't declare bankruptcy but by all rights i should have. i ate sammiches and was out of debt in about a year. that divorce is primarily why all the furniture is less than 10 years old

[mawilson 2,133]

An example, Charles could be considered poor when he came back from Germany and his wife had screwed him over and over, and not in the good sense , and he went bankrupt. He started all over again, and now he has a pretty decent life.

actually, i didn't declare bankruptcy but by all rights i should have. i ate sammiches and was out of debt in about a year. that divorce is primarily why all the furniture is less than 10 years old

Guess you didn't sue your ex-wife for spousal support?

[Ban Hammer 13,352]

An example, Charles could be considered poor when he came back from Germany and his wife had screwed him over and over, and not in the good sense , and he went bankrupt. He started all over again, and now he has a pretty decent life.

actually, i didn't declare bankruptcy but by all rights i should have. i ate sammiches and was out of debt in about a year. that divorce is primarily why all the furniture is less than 10 years old

Guess you didn't sue your ex-wife for spousal support?

no, i just wanted her to go away.