Senator McCain proposes giving each family $5,000 to buy their own health insurance

[kaydee457 13]

To pay for the tax credit, McCain would eliminate the tax exemption for people whose employers pay a portion of their coverage, raising an estimated $3.6 trillion in revenues, Holtz-Eakin said. Companies that provide coverage to workers still would get tax breaks. McCain would also cut costs by limiting health care lawsuits.

McC HealthPlan

Intersting, McCain proposes to raise taxes. Hasn't he just said that he would do no such thing?

I'm admittedley a little concerned over this myself. I want some clarification.......

I'm not exactly sure what "exemption" he's talking about.....

The "exemption" is that whatever your employer pays towards your health insurance doesn't count into your gross income which is reported to the IRS. Lifting that "exemption" would mean that gong forward, you will see your gross income - and hence your taxes - jump up. If this raises 3.6 trillion dollars, that means that working Americans will collectively pay that much more in payroll taxes. That's a significant tax hike.

That's what the term "gross up" means. The last time I got screwed with a gross up was during the Clinton administration they decided that employee compensation for relocating was a benefit that shouldn't be tax exempt. Move packages from that point out were grossed up into your salary......

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

To pay for the tax credit, McCain would eliminate the tax exemption for people whose employers pay a portion of their coverage, raising an estimated $3.6 trillion in revenues, Holtz-Eakin said. Companies that provide coverage to workers still would get tax breaks. McCain would also cut costs by limiting health care lawsuits.

McC HealthPlan

Intersting, McCain proposes to raise taxes. Hasn't he just said that he would do no such thing?

I'm admittedley a little concerned over this myself. I want some clarification.......

I'm not exactly sure what "exemption" he's talking about.....

The "exemption" is that whatever your employer pays towards your health insurance doesn't count into your gross income which is reported to the IRS. Lifting that "exemption" would mean that gong forward, you will see your gross income - and hence your taxes - jump up. If this raises 3.6 trillion dollars, that means that working Americans will collectively pay that much more in payroll taxes. That's a significant tax hike.

That's what the term "gross up" means. The last time I got screwed with a gross up was during the Clinton administration they decided that employee compensation for relocating was a benefit that shouldn't be tax exempt. Move packages from that point out were grossed up into your salary......

Exactly. That's what he's proposing. At least he comes out right now telling us that he'll actually raise taxes on working America while cutting taxes on non-earned income. And he proposing to hit working America not just a little but a whopping 3.6 trillion dollars. He'll flip-flop on this one real quick. Just wait and see him retract.

[kaydee457 13]

To pay for the tax credit, McCain would eliminate the tax exemption for people whose employers pay a portion of their coverage, raising an estimated $3.6 trillion in revenues, Holtz-Eakin said. Companies that provide coverage to workers still would get tax breaks. McCain would also cut costs by limiting health care lawsuits.

McC HealthPlan

Intersting, McCain proposes to raise taxes. Hasn't he just said that he would do no such thing?

I'm admittedley a little concerned over this myself. I want some clarification.......

I'm not exactly sure what "exemption" he's talking about.....

The "exemption" is that whatever your employer pays towards your health insurance doesn't count into your gross income which is reported to the IRS. Lifting that "exemption" would mean that gong forward, you will see your gross income - and hence your taxes - jump up. If this raises 3.6 trillion dollars, that means that working Americans will collectively pay that much more in payroll taxes. That's a significant tax hike.

That's what the term "gross up" means. The last time I got screwed with a gross up was during the Clinton administration they decided that employee compensation for relocating was a benefit that shouldn't be tax exempt. Move packages from that point out were grossed up into your salary......

Exactly. That's what he's proposing. At least he comes out right now telling us that he'll actually raise taxes on working America while cutting taxes on non-earned income. And he proposing to hit working America not just a little but a whopping 3.6 trillion dollars. He'll flip-flop on this one real quick. Just wait and see him retract.

Well, hang on there Mr. Big..... As I see this he's proposing to gross up employee health benefit cost but you need to subtract his proposed 5k from that.

Perhaps in my case I'll see a 2k increase in gross salary.....I'm not sure what non-earned income is as everything your employer provides to you is "earned". Some "benefits" aren't taxed at the federal level...........All income is "earned", including interest and monies earned by capital gains.....

I need more detail to understand this proposition.

Edited April 30, 2008 by kaydee457

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

To pay for the tax credit, McCain would eliminate the tax exemption for people whose employers pay a portion of their coverage, raising an estimated $3.6 trillion in revenues, Holtz-Eakin said. Companies that provide coverage to workers still would get tax breaks. McCain would also cut costs by limiting health care lawsuits.

McC HealthPlan

Intersting, McCain proposes to raise taxes. Hasn't he just said that he would do no such thing?

I'm admittedley a little concerned over this myself. I want some clarification.......

I'm not exactly sure what "exemption" he's talking about.....

The "exemption" is that whatever your employer pays towards your health insurance doesn't count into your gross income which is reported to the IRS. Lifting that "exemption" would mean that gong forward, you will see your gross income - and hence your taxes - jump up. If this raises 3.6 trillion dollars, that means that working Americans will collectively pay that much more in payroll taxes. That's a significant tax hike.

That's what the term "gross up" means. The last time I got screwed with a gross up was during the Clinton administration they decided that employee compensation for relocating was a benefit that shouldn't be tax exempt. Move packages from that point out were grossed up into your salary......

Exactly. That's what he's proposing. At least he comes out right now telling us that he'll actually raise taxes on working America while cutting taxes on non-earned income. And he proposing to hit working America not just a little but a whopping 3.6 trillion dollars. He'll flip-flop on this one real quick. Just wait and see him retract.

Well, hang on there Mr. Big..... As I see this he's proposing to gross up employee health benefit cost but you need to subtract his proposed 5k from that.

Perhaps in my case I'll see a 2k increase in gross salary.....I'm not sure what non-earned income is as everything your employer provides to you is "earned". Some "benefits" aren't taxed at the federal level...........All income is "earned", including interest and monies earned by capital gains.....

I need more detail to understand this proposition.

Hold on. Let's assume for a second that fiscally the deal is zero sum for those covered by an employer sponsored plan today. Giving 2500 bucks to each person that isn't currently insured under an employer sponsored plan would run 112 billion to reach the 45 million uninsured. Yet he's saying this will cost 7 billion. Where does that other 105 billion come from?

[Dan J 277]

To pay for the tax credit, McCain would eliminate the tax exemption for people whose employers pay a portion of their coverage, raising an estimated $3.6 trillion in revenues, Holtz-Eakin said. Companies that provide coverage to workers still would get tax breaks. McCain would also cut costs by limiting health care lawsuits.

McC HealthPlan

Intersting, McCain proposes to raise taxes. Hasn't he just said that he would do no such thing?

I'm admittedley a little concerned over this myself. I want some clarification.......

I'm not exactly sure what "exemption" he's talking about.....

The "exemption" is that whatever your employer pays towards your health insurance doesn't count into your gross income which is reported to the IRS. Lifting that "exemption" would mean that gong forward, you will see your gross income - and hence your taxes - jump up. If this raises 3.6 trillion dollars, that means that working Americans will collectively pay that much more in payroll taxes. That's a significant tax hike.

That's what the term "gross up" means. The last time I got screwed with a gross up was during the Clinton administration they decided that employee compensation for relocating was a benefit that shouldn't be tax exempt. Move packages from that point out were grossed up into your salary......

Exactly. That's what he's proposing. At least he comes out right now telling us that he'll actually raise taxes on working America while cutting taxes on non-earned income. And he proposing to hit working America not just a little but a whopping 3.6 trillion dollars. He'll flip-flop on this one real quick. Just wait and see him retract.

Well, hang on there Mr. Big..... As I see this he's proposing to gross up employee health benefit cost but you need to subtract his proposed 5k from that.

Perhaps in my case I'll see a 2k increase in gross salary.....I'm not sure what non-earned income is as everything your employer provides to you is "earned". Some "benefits" aren't taxed at the federal level...........All income is "earned", including interest and monies earned by capital gains.....

I need more detail to understand this proposition.

Hold on. Let's assume for a second that fiscally the deal is zero sum for those covered by an employer sponsored plan today. Giving 2500 bucks to each person that isn't currently insured under an employer sponsored plan would run 112 billion to reach the 45 million uninsured. Yet he's saying this will cost 7 billion. Where does that other 105 billion come from?

The number is larger than that. There is a sizable group that currently have private plans.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

To pay for the tax credit, McCain would eliminate the tax exemption for people whose employers pay a portion of their coverage, raising an estimated $3.6 trillion in revenues, Holtz-Eakin said. Companies that provide coverage to workers still would get tax breaks. McCain would also cut costs by limiting health care lawsuits.

McC HealthPlan

Intersting, McCain proposes to raise taxes. Hasn't he just said that he would do no such thing?

I'm admittedley a little concerned over this myself. I want some clarification.......

I'm not exactly sure what "exemption" he's talking about.....

The "exemption" is that whatever your employer pays towards your health insurance doesn't count into your gross income which is reported to the IRS. Lifting that "exemption" would mean that gong forward, you will see your gross income - and hence your taxes - jump up. If this raises 3.6 trillion dollars, that means that working Americans will collectively pay that much more in payroll taxes. That's a significant tax hike.

That's what the term "gross up" means. The last time I got screwed with a gross up was during the Clinton administration they decided that employee compensation for relocating was a benefit that shouldn't be tax exempt. Move packages from that point out were grossed up into your salary......

Exactly. That's what he's proposing. At least he comes out right now telling us that he'll actually raise taxes on working America while cutting taxes on non-earned income. And he proposing to hit working America not just a little but a whopping 3.6 trillion dollars. He'll flip-flop on this one real quick. Just wait and see him retract.

Well, hang on there Mr. Big..... As I see this he's proposing to gross up employee health benefit cost but you need to subtract his proposed 5k from that.

Perhaps in my case I'll see a 2k increase in gross salary.....I'm not sure what non-earned income is as everything your employer provides to you is "earned". Some "benefits" aren't taxed at the federal level...........All income is "earned", including interest and monies earned by capital gains.....

I need more detail to understand this proposition.

Hold on. Let's assume for a second that fiscally the deal is zero sum for those covered by an employer sponsored plan today. Giving 2500 bucks to each person that isn't currently insured under an employer sponsored plan would run 112 billion to reach the 45 million uninsured. Yet he's saying this will cost 7 billion. Where does that other 105 billion come from?

The number is larger than that. There is a sizable group that currently have private plans.

I know. But even with this very conservative approach on the numbers McCain's proposal doesn't manage to square the circle.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Just goes to show it's more McSame ....Dubbya loves to spend the money he doesn't have.

[Heracles 417]

Just goes to show it's more McSame ....Dubbya loves to spend the money he doesn't have.

It has to be approved by congress. They don't seem to have an issue spending it themselves.

[kaydee457 13]

To pay for the tax credit, McCain would eliminate the tax exemption for people whose employers pay a portion of their coverage, raising an estimated $3.6 trillion in revenues, Holtz-Eakin said. Companies that provide coverage to workers still would get tax breaks. McCain would also cut costs by limiting health care lawsuits.

McC HealthPlan

Intersting, McCain proposes to raise taxes. Hasn't he just said that he would do no such thing?

I'm admittedley a little concerned over this myself. I want some clarification.......

I'm not exactly sure what "exemption" he's talking about.....

The "exemption" is that whatever your employer pays towards your health insurance doesn't count into your gross income which is reported to the IRS. Lifting that "exemption" would mean that gong forward, you will see your gross income - and hence your taxes - jump up. If this raises 3.6 trillion dollars, that means that working Americans will collectively pay that much more in payroll taxes. That's a significant tax hike.

That's what the term "gross up" means. The last time I got screwed with a gross up was during the Clinton administration they decided that employee compensation for relocating was a benefit that shouldn't be tax exempt. Move packages from that point out were grossed up into your salary......

Exactly. That's what he's proposing. At least he comes out right now telling us that he'll actually raise taxes on working America while cutting taxes on non-earned income. And he proposing to hit working America not just a little but a whopping 3.6 trillion dollars. He'll flip-flop on this one real quick. Just wait and see him retract.

Well, hang on there Mr. Big..... As I see this he's proposing to gross up employee health benefit cost but you need to subtract his proposed 5k from that.

Perhaps in my case I'll see a 2k increase in gross salary.....I'm not sure what non-earned income is as everything your employer provides to you is "earned". Some "benefits" aren't taxed at the federal level...........All income is "earned", including interest and monies earned by capital gains.....

I need more detail to understand this proposition.

Hold on. Let's assume for a second that fiscally the deal is zero sum for those covered by an employer sponsored plan today. Giving 2500 bucks to each person that isn't currently insured under an employer sponsored plan would run 112 billion to reach the 45 million uninsured. Yet he's saying this will cost 7 billion. Where does that other 105 billion come from?

You see? We have no details......We could speculate on the dems plan similary to impose Health Care on every American and try to do the "math" but there's the intangibles such as start up costs, enforcement, compliance rules, and a myriad of "stuff" that we can't even imagine.........

Not enough info...CANNOT COMPUTE WILL ROBINSON- DANGER...DANGER...

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Its more of McCains sound good on paper plans but have no effect on reality.

Like the gas tax holiday, while it might temporarly decrease prices (For a week or two). The lower price will drive up demand and gas prices will go back up.

So the net effect is less money to pay for roads, and no change in the price for gas.

Fixing healthcare is going to need more than subsidizing the current system

I don't even think it sounds good on paper. He's doing nothing to reign in costs directly as much as setting market conditions and hoping it all works out.

You can buy your healthplan yourself, still wade through a tonne of labyrinthine legalese and still find that you'll be subject to pre-existing condition clauses and still find out the hard way that certain conditions aren't covered at all.

I read this several times in your posts but you never suggest how one would do this.

Are you suggesting another bureaucracy to intervene into private health care and regulate, impose restrictions on costs?

Who decides what's reasonable for a procedure, and what's not a reasonable cost? What about enforcement?

Let’s hear your proposal, 6.

You don't think its bizarre to put forward a healthcare plan with the specific claim to lower costs, while doing nothing substantial to address why medical care costs so much in the first place?

Strange.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

While I was watching the news I noticed that McCain is proposing allowing the employees to basically pick their health insurance provider rather than sticking with the one the employer chooses. Now that is an excellent idea..

Is it?

Think about that:

Its not doing anything to change the cost of healthcare to make it more affordable or more widely available.

It also doesn't change the way that insurance plans currently work - you're still going to run into the situation of pre-existing conditioning, and if you have a chronic condition you're still likely to face massive premiums to ensure coverage (if indeed you can afford it at all). You're also (still) going to run into the situation of having certain conditions denied coverage from your plan.

That's the whole problem with the current system - it works great when you're healthy... When you're fighting cancer or some other chronic disease you don't want to be fighting tooth and nail with your insurance company.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

While I was watching the news I noticed that McCain is proposing allowing the employees to basically pick their health insurance provider rather than sticking with the one the employer chooses. Now that is an excellent idea..

Is it?

Think about that:

Its not doing anything to change the cost of healthcare to make it more affordable or more widely available.

It also doesn't change the way that insurance plans currently work - you're still going to run into the situation of pre-existing conditioning, and if you have a chronic condition you're still likely to face massive premiums to ensure coverage (if indeed you can afford it at all). You're also (still) going to run into the situation of having certain conditions denied coverage from your plan.

That's the whole problem with the current system - it works great when you're healthy... When you're fighting cancer or some other chronic disease you don't want to be fighting tooth and nail with your insurance company.

Son, you can pay for it the way you are now or pay more the way you want it. Why dont you all that want healthcare for everyone start a foundation that does it. Of course biotchin about it takes presedence,while you sit on your ####### lookin for a freebie.

Only to find out it aint free! Couch monkies, you just gotta lovem.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I know it "ain't" free.

I don't want a freebie.

Thick heads don't seem to understand this.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

I know it "ain't" free.

I don't want a freebie.

Thick heads don't seem to understand this.

LIFE! Deal with it.

Unhappy? To bad!

Pissed off? Bummer!

Put your hand out? Get it slapped!

Waitin for your LUCKY day? Have a nice wait.

Want all your dreams to come true? Go back to bed.

Want a free ticket? Keep wantin, its a long wait.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I know it "ain't" free.

I don't want a freebie.

Thick heads don't seem to understand this.

LIFE! Deal with it.

Unhappy? To bad!

Pissed off? Bummer!

Put your hand out? Get it slapped!

Waitin for your LUCKY day? Have a nice wait.

Want all your dreams to come true? Go back to bed.

Want a free ticket? Keep wantin, its a long wait.

Suggest you read the preceding post and repeat. If you re-read it enough times it might actually sink in.

At the same time - you should probably go splash some water on your face.