Senator Obama on Fox News Sunday (April 27 2008)

[kaydee457 13]

You said 'the qualifications to teach are relatively low'.

Would you like to keep digging your hole? Are we going to get into a discussion about the definition of 'to'?

If so, that's rather Clinton-esque, don't you think?

You are just arguing for the sake of arguing.....I made my case.

[rebeccajo 14]

You said 'the qualifications to teach are relatively low'.

Would you like to keep digging your hole? Are we going to get into a discussion about the definition of 'to'?

If so, that's rather Clinton-esque, don't you think?

You are just arguing for the sake of arguing.....I made my case.

Hardly.

First you make a presumptive statement about something you know little about.

When refuted, you make a derogatory insult about a young man's selected profession.

You then go on to cite one glowing example of a single area of the country to support your contention.

You back that up with reference to a 10 year old study.

Then you 'edit' a post to clarify what you said in the first place. Which was wrong. In the first place.

You need to go back to school.

[kaydee457 13]

You said 'the qualifications to teach are relatively low'.

Would you like to keep digging your hole? Are we going to get into a discussion about the definition of 'to'?

If so, that's rather Clinton-esque, don't you think?

You are just arguing for the sake of arguing.....I made my case.

Hardly.

First you make a presumptive statement about something you know little about.

When refuted, you make a derogatory insult about a young man's selected profession.

You then go on to cite one glowing example of a single area of the country to support your contention.

You back that up with reference to a 10 year old study.

Then you 'edit' a post to clarify what you said in the first place. Which was wrong. In the first place.

You need to go back to school.

This is typical of your debating skills. Closed mind. You made up your mind back when you came into this thread with the outrageous "** you".....and you say I'm insulting?

You've decided to impose a negaitive spin on what I said, and I suppose like all mothers in denial, you can't see the point here; I'm not saying trained teachers have less skills, I'm saying that the rural districts in many states have lowered their standards to attract more teachers, and this has driven the salries lower.

I don't know how many times I need to repeat that lady!

one more reference to demonstrate that the bars been lowered, this time by an act of congress in 2004.......

SEC. 2. RURAL WAIVER OF CERTAIN QUALIFICATIONS FOR TEACHERS.

waiver

[rebeccajo 14]

My debating skills?

"S. 2164 [108th]: Assisting America's Rural Schools Act

A bill to amend the Elementary and Secondary Education Act of 1965 to authorize local educational agencies in rural areas to obtain a limited waiver of certain requirements relating to the employment of highly qualified teachers.

Sponsor: Sen. Harry Reid [D-NV](no cosponsors)

Cosponsors [as of 2006-07-09]

Status: Introduced Mar 4, 2004

Scheduled for Debate -

Voted on in Senate -

Voted on in House -

Signed by President -

This bill never became law. This bill was proposed in a previous session of Congress. Sessions of Congress last two years, and at the end of each session all proposed bills and resolutions that haven't passed are cleared from the books. "

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s108-2164

[Peikko 1,575]

I suppose like all mothers in denial

In denial about what? This is clearly intended to be insulting and makes absolutely no contribution to the argument. Her son isn't doing anything that anyone could be ashamed of so there is no case of denial.

[HAL 9000 96]

With respect to lowering the bar for teachers, I dont' know what's happening in other states. But here in NJ, the bar hasn't been lowered. My wife works in a school that has many long-time teachers and the new teachers are the only ones who have all the degrees (completed and in-progress) and test scores they are required to have. A good majority of the older teachers do not and are still resisting having to go do it. They risk being laid off this year for their failure to comply.

Exactly. I fail to see any lowered bar in IL or FL. In fact, schools and school districts have their own criteria to uphold that are at times more stringent than State and Federal standards.

If anything all I see are the ignorant rants of he who wants to see what is not there, again.

[kaydee457 13]

My debating skills?

"S. 2164 [108th]: Assisting America's Rural Schools Act

A bill to amend the Elementary and Secondary Education Act of 1965 to authorize local educational agencies in rural areas to obtain a limited waiver of certain requirements relating to the employment of highly qualified teachers.

Sponsor: Sen. Harry Reid [D-NV](no cosponsors)

Cosponsors [as of 2006-07-09]

Status: Introduced Mar 4, 2004

Scheduled for Debate -

Voted on in Senate -

Voted on in House -

Signed by President -

This bill never became law. This bill was proposed in a previous session of Congress. Sessions of Congress last two years, and at the end of each session all proposed bills and resolutions that haven't passed are cleared from the books. "

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s108-2164

It demonstrates a trend.........

Okay, I admit it dammit! I think all those that choose to pursue a career in teaching are total morons and deserve to make a pittance!

You’ve found me out! I can’t hide it anymore, I’m a teach-a-fobic…..I’m paranoid and suspicious of their bossy ways. Yeah, I never forgot how they would manipulate me and order me to do “stuff” when I was in school! Now it’s their turn to suffer! Low wages- HOORAY!

I hate them, I tell ‘ya…I just despise them….<sniffle>

[HAL 9000 96]

This is what I said and having read it again I suppose it could be interpreted either way.....

Lastly, I agree that teachers aren't paid what they should be but again, it's a profession that simply doesn't demand high pay.

With the exception of unionized large metro areas, the minimum qualifications to teach are relatively low. What this means is that any undergrad can aquire a teaching position in most places in this country. When I was in Va the requirement to teach middle school was undergrad degree and two months of a "teaching Certification" course.

As long as it's a job whereby the bar is set relatively low for hiring then it will remain a low paying profession.

The bolded areas are fact, at least in Virginia. You can have an undergrad in History, English, whatever and be hired by a school district to teach with the only certification necessary is a 3 yr. Conditional License......

This's opened up the field to many applicants that previously wouldn't have been qualified to teach and is driving salaries lower.

edit: added the word minimum, and underlined....the intent is to say the posted job qualifications of a particular district are low

As in any other state that grants temporary licenses, each state board of certification reviews temporary teacher credentials based upon each university transcript to teach in a specific subject area. Hence, a science BS qualifies for science subject areas. Etc. In that temporary license time, temporary teachers are given a personalized curriculum of courses and certification steps to become professional licensees.

Starting pay is based on district and state-mandated levels that rely on local tax and federal funds, not applicant pools.

[Heracles 417]

It demonstrates a trend.........

Last time I tried demonstrating a trend my education was ridiculed. Ironically by people with arts or 'political science' degrees.. :rofl:

I have spoken to people who work for the state education boards who back everything you are saying. They see it first hand. Most good teachers are quitting due to poor pay and the mounting pressure on them. Therefore the counties have to lower the standards to hire crappier teachers to fill the places.

Edited April 29, 2008 by Boo-Yah!

[rebeccajo 14]

My debating skills?

"S. 2164 [108th]: Assisting America's Rural Schools Act

A bill to amend the Elementary and Secondary Education Act of 1965 to authorize local educational agencies in rural areas to obtain a limited waiver of certain requirements relating to the employment of highly qualified teachers.

Sponsor: Sen. Harry Reid [D-NV](no cosponsors)

Cosponsors [as of 2006-07-09]

Status: Introduced Mar 4, 2004

Scheduled for Debate -

Voted on in Senate -

Voted on in House -

Signed by President -

This bill never became law. This bill was proposed in a previous session of Congress. Sessions of Congress last two years, and at the end of each session all proposed bills and resolutions that haven't passed are cleared from the books. "

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s108-2164

It demonstrates a trend.........

Okay, I admit it dammit! I think all those that choose to pursue a career in teaching are total morons and deserve to make a pittance!

You’ve found me out! I can’t hide it anymore, I’m a teach-a-fobic…..I’m paranoid and suspicious of their bossy ways. Yeah, I never forgot how they would manipulate me and order me to do “stuff” when I was in school! Now it’s their turn to suffer! Low wages- HOORAY!

I hate them, I tell ‘ya…I just despise them….<sniffle>

One proposed bill demonstrates a trend?

Your sarcasm isn't lost on me or anyone else reading the thread. *sniffle*

If you can't win an argument, then just try to pretend it wasn't there in the first place.

I tell ya what, kaydee. I'd love to see you and your 100K up against my son and his passion for his profession up against you in a debate.

He'd mop the floor with you. Just like his mother just did.

[Heracles 417]

Ok, so confronted with real evidence it's my imagination......You people have some real issues!

You know it is interesting to see some of the responses to your posts. They are basically identical to the utter ####### they say when I post something they disagree with. Keep up the good work though.

Everyone who does not agree with them is an idiot. Then when you throw out your pay or education to defend yourself you are egotistical, making it up or they will try to mock it. Funnily enough I know very little about the people making these same statements hiding being the anonymity of a forum.

Edited April 29, 2008 by Boo-Yah!

[HAL 9000 96]

Ok, so confronted with real evidence it's my imagination......You people have some real issues!

You know it is interesting to see some of the responses to your posts. They are basically identical to the utter ####### they say when I post something they disagree with. Keep up the good work though.

Everyone who does not agree with them is an idiot. Then when you throw out your pay or education to defend yourself you are egotistical, making it up or they will try to mock it. Funnily enough I know very little about the people making these same statements hiding being the anonymity of a forum.

"Evidence" that is obviously not well used to support a claim vs First Hand evidence from people involved in the industry. Somehow, I'd rather go with the logical ####### vs imagined #######.

[Heracles 417]

"Evidence" that is obviously not well used to support a claim vs First Hand evidence from people involved in the industry. Somehow, I'd rather go with the logical ####### vs imagined #######.

Yes logical by 'your' standards.

[HAL 9000 96]

"Evidence" that is obviously not well used to support a claim vs First Hand evidence from people involved in the industry. Somehow, I'd rather go with the logical ####### vs imagined #######.

Yes logical by 'your' standards.

Yes. Standards that have the backing of the FL State Department of Education.

[Heracles 417]

"Evidence" that is obviously not well used to support a claim vs First Hand evidence from people involved in the industry. Somehow, I'd rather go with the logical ####### vs imagined #######.

Yes logical by 'your' standards.

Yes. Standards that have the backing of the FL State Department of Education.

Standards don't mean #######. The best teachers are usually going to go to the highest paid counties. Therefore the other counties will have to lower their standards to find teachers. Applies in business and also applies to teaching.