WITNESS AFFIDAVITS

[I luv my chappara 0]

I luv my chappara, you must be less than half my age and yet you talk with gentle maturity. And I completely understand everything you said. Perhaps it is because you explained without calling me names. :-)

Ryan is a lucky guy!!

Loterly, please accept my apologies again. I will be more careful with my post.

Shape, Please accept my apology. Perhaps we could have used better words than using words like "useless, etc"

Thanks Noel for understanding me

I am lucky with Ryan too wink

Thanks for asking apology to Ate Lot and Shape..

Very nice to read that from you

[✿Ice Rain✿ 0]

I am astonished on how far this thread has come, just because ppl try to justify their affidavits submitted. Pushbrk, has detailed nicely what BONAFIDES of a marriage mean... this is clearly written on the I-130. They are asking for affidavits from ppl that can say that they've witnessed the bonifides and what they were specifically. That's all... not so hard, is it? The problem comes in when ppl that have already submitted their affidavits without stating anything about bonafides, then they feel they have to justify their choice. Affidavits clearly don't carry the weight of approval or not!!!

For those new and searching about affidavits.. u can follow Shapes outline (is very nice) BUT BE SURE THAT THE PERSON WHO IS COMPLETING IT ACTUALLY KNOWS BOTH OF YOU AND SAY IN WHAT SETTING OTHER THAN JUST WATCHING YOU GET MARRIED.

It's not hard to get. Is it hard to get also what i mentioned on previous post ? like this:

I hope i made clear to everyone that i didn't post this to others to do exactly what we did. Of course you guys have your own minds and own ways how you will present yours. It's up to you guys how you can add something or delete something in our affidavits based on your cases.

Shape

[✿Ice Rain✿ 0]

I luv my chappara, you must be less than half my age and yet you talk with gentle maturity. And I completely understand everything you said. Perhaps it is because you explained without calling me names. :-)

Ryan is a lucky guy!!

Loterly, please accept my apologies again. I will be more careful with my post.

Shape, Please accept my apology. Perhaps we could have used better words than using words like "useless, etc"

Yes , i agree instead of saying it was wrong or useless which is not. "lacking some details", is better coz it wasn't completely wrong or useless.

It's all okay now.

[Loterly_Richard 0]

I thought I'd put a little perspective on what I think has happened in this thread. My wife is a Filipina, but not claiming to be any type of expert on Philippine Social customs. I think this has to do with the Filipino Social Custom of saving face. face is the measure of one's self pride, integrity, character and good name.

to me it seems that the ladies went into a defensive mode because of what they felt was public criticism, so they felt the need to "save face".

many of us here have an SO's from a different culture. we learn to integrate the other's culture into our live's.

hopefully we can all be tolerant to those who are, or will be transitioning to a new culture.

with all due respect to roy and yazi coz u were one of those people that im grateful with becoz of your helpful advices on my previous posts and in my heart up till now i still cant thank you enough for that. but since you quoted the words "save face" there, i "felt the need" to reply. when one is hurt, this person has 2 choices, first is to keep silent "silence mode"and do nothing. second choice is to shift to his/her "defense mode". for how many weeks i chose "silence mode", but everytime you see the same person doing the same thing he did to me, i "felt the need" to shift to my "defense mode" and not to save my own face. i felt the need to come out in the open and let this person know that he/she is kind of hurting people's feelings already without him knowing it or otherwise. if i didnt voice out my feelings then i wouldnt know that this person (with all honesty that i hate him becoz he hurt me) can also be responsible to admit his fault and say sorry. knowing now that he sincerely apologize to me, it felt good and the hatred faded away and i dont have a bit of anger in my heart now to this person.how i am glad i shifted to my defense mode for if i didnt then perhaps the hatred i have for this person is growing deeper. now it is time to shift back to my "silence mode".

therefore i must say, i wasnt saving my face nor pride nor integrity nor character nor good name, coz he wasnt able to mess with them, for if that was the case, i would not think twice to use my defense mode back then, fortunately that wasnt the case after all. id rather describe what i did as "impulsive reaction to impulsive opinion"

thanks

im cool now so peace y'all

[✿Ice Rain✿ 0]

I thought I'd put a little perspective on what I think has happened in this thread. My wife is a Filipina, but not claiming to be any type of expert on Philippine Social customs. I think this has to do with the Filipino Social Custom of saving face. face is the measure of one's self pride, integrity, character and good name.

to me it seems that the ladies went into a defensive mode because of what they felt was public criticism, so they felt the need to "save face".

many of us here have an SO's from a different culture. we learn to integrate the other's culture into our live's.

hopefully we can all be tolerant to those who are, or will be transitioning to a new culture.

with all due respect to roy and yazi coz u were one of those people that im grateful with becoz of your helpful advices on my previous posts and in my heart up till now i still cant thank you enough for that. but since you quoted the words "save face" there, i "felt the need" to reply. when one is hurt, this person has 2 choices, first is to keep silent "silence mode"and do nothing. second choice is to shift to his/her "defense mode". for how many weeks i chose "silence mode", but everytime you see the same person doing the same thing he did to me, i "felt the need" to shift to my "defense mode" and not to save my own face. i felt the need to come out in the open and let this person know that he/she is kind of hurting people's feelings already without him knowing it or otherwise. if i didnt voice out my feelings then i wouldnt know that this person (with all honesty that i hate him becoz he hurt me) can also be responsible to admit his fault and say sorry. knowing now that he sincerely apologize to me, it felt good and the hatred faded away and i dont have a bit of anger in my heart now to this person.how i am glad i shifted to my defense mode for if i didnt then perhaps the hatred i have for this person is growing deeper. now it is time to shift back to my "silence mode".

therefore i must say, i wasnt saving my face nor pride nor integrity nor character nor good name, coz he wasnt able to mess with them, for if that was the case, i would not think twice to use my defense mode back then, fortunately that wasnt the case after all. id rather describe what i did as "impulsive reaction to impulsive opinion"

thanks

im cool now so peace y'all

I love you Ate Loter. Peace be with you all. And Peace to everyone.

[sunandmoon 450]

alot of us come from different cultures. I thought some might misunderstand the reactions made by some, so that's why I made those comments. I only had best interests at heart. hopefully I didn't offend anyone.

Having gone through the process in Manila, it gives me extra pleasure when I see success stories there. Lot, It brought a smile to my face when I saw your approval. hope soon you have visa in hand. hope you have a happy life in the USA with your soon to be Hubby.

[Loterly_Richard 0]

alot of us come from different cultures. I thought some might misunderstand the reactions made by some, so that's why I made those comments. I only had best interests at heart. hopefully I didn't offend anyone.

Having gone through the process in Manila, it gives me extra pleasure when I see success stories there. Lot, It brought a smile to my face when I saw your approval. hope soon you have visa in hand. hope you have a happy life in the USA with your soon to be Hubby.

few days from now, my k1 process wll finally be successful and again youre part of my success. i may not be able to repay your kindness but God can. thanks . i wish you more happiness.

[ChuckandRhean 0]

pushbrk,

for the nth times, why do u really wanna insist on "the relationship" when in fact the uscis clearly wrote there "marriage"?

PLEASE READ POST #82 AGAIN SEE FOR YOURSELF WHAT USCIS WAS LOOKING FOR... IT CONTRADICTS ON WHAT YOU INSIST

THIS ONE IS A CONTEXT FROM USCIS >>>information and details explaining how the person acquired his or her knowledge of your marriage)

THIS ONE IS A CONTEXT FROM PUSHBRK >>> The affidavits should contain information about the relationship, not the wedding.

I'll answer the why question gladly and thoroughly. First, the USCIS wrote a lot of things including but not limited to using the word "marriage". Sometimes we can get away with following only the context of one phrase. More often we need at least a full sentance. Sometimes we need a paragraph, other times a section and still other times we must follow the complete context of a form's instructions including all paragraphs and sections. Further, we sometimes need to use more than the most simplified definition of a word. Many people hire attorneys to sort through all this kind of thing for them because they know they aren't able to do it themselves. Others ask those who do have the capabilities or seek help here.

The I-130 is filed in behalf of a relative of a US Citizen. So, the beginning of all context in the instructions is establishing the category of family relationship.

For a spouse, from the instructions....

You have to prove that there is a family relationship between you and your relative. If you are filing for:

1. A husband or wife, submit the following documentation:

A. A copy of your marriage certificate.

B. If either you or your spouse were previously married, submit copies of documents showing that all prior marriages were legally terminated.

A. and B. are required to show both that you were B. eligible to marry and A. legally and lawfully married with said marriage registered with the appropriate local jurisdictional authority. No other evidence of a legal and lawful marriage is asked for in this or any other section.

Please note that marriages that are "not bona fide" as in "entered into exclusively to derive an immigration benefit" will be able to submit a "Marriage Certificate" or all the evidence asked for that the marriage is a legal one, duly recorded and certified.

Now let's take a look at the context of the section that lists items E through J.

NOTE: In addition to the required documentation listed above, you should submit one or more of the following types of documentation that may evidence that bona fides of your marriage:

To understand the context we must first understand the meaning of "bonafides of your marriage". Since you've already provided a marriage certificate, you can conclude they aren't talking about whether your marriage is legal.

From Webster:

bona fide

1 : made in good faith without fraud or deceit <a bona fide offer to buy a farm>

2 : made with earnest intent : sincere

3 : neither specious nor counterfeit : genuine

synonyms see authentic

Let's take a look at the meaning of the word "marriage" just for good measure.

1 a (1): the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law (2): the state of being united to a person of the same sex in a relationship like that of a traditional marriage <same-sex marriage> b: the mutual relation of married persons : wedlock c: the institution whereby individuals are joined in a marriage

2: an act of marrying or the rite by which the married status is effected; especially : the wedding ceremony and attendant festivities or formalities

3: an intimate or close union

Note items 2. b. and 3. and then understand that items E to J are intended to demonstrate not just a marriage but one entered into in good faith and without deceit or in more pointed words, for something far more than to derive an immigration benefit to one of the parties.

Now let's look at what we can learn about the context from the items preceding "I". Do any address whether or not the wedding was legal, lawful and registered? Do any ask for witness statement as to whether an actual wedding occured? No, they don't. Each item provides evidence that the marriage is something more than simply legal and lawful.

E. Documentation showing joint ownership or property; or

F. A lease showing joint tenancy of a common residence; or

G. Documentation showing co-mingling of financial resources; or

H. Birth certificate(s) of child(ren) born to you, the petitioner, and your spouse together; or

I. Affidavits sworn to or affirmed by third parties having personal knowledge of the bona fides of the marital relationship. (Each affidavit must contain the full name and address, date and place of birth of the person making the affidavit, his or her relationship to the petitioner of beneficiary, if any, and complete information and details explaining how the person acquired his or her knowledge of your marriage); or

J. Any other relevant documentation to establish that there is an ongoing marital union.

Since many people cannot possibly supply E, F, G or H, then start focusing on I, "affidavits" when really J, "any other" is usually most appropriate for newlyweds who have never lived in the same country.

Back to understanding context. Item I above contains a completion of a sentence before the parenthetical addition. That sentence properly read would read...

In addition to the required documentation listed above, you should submit affidavits sworn to or affirmed by third parties having personal knowledge of the bona fides of the marital relationship.

What is contained in the parenthesis is intended to add details about the format and additional information that should appear in the affidavit, not a change in the meaning of "knowledge of the bona fides of the marital relationship."

As such, affidavits that only affirm a legal wedding took place, do not qualify as affidavits regarding the "bona fides of the marital relationship."

"Bona fides of the relationship" is the key to item I.

"Copy of Marriage Certificate" is the key to demonstrating legal and lawful marriage. No additional evidence, whether affidavit or otherwise is even suggested.

For example, a meaningful affidavit from say a Minister who performed the marriage might contain the information that they provided multiple pre-marital counseling to the couple. From a family member who attended the wedding, such an affidavit might include statements about how they observed the relationship developing over time. In our case, where we met on the internet and married two days after our first in person meeting, perhaps an affidavit from the person who observed the evolution of the relationship over time by translating our first twenty or more emails and chat sessions, met us at the airport, went with us to the marriage registration office and observed our disappointment that our documentation was not sufficiently translated to get married that day.....attended the wedding and banquet after, then had dinner with us in their home after the honeymoon and escorted us to the airport to see the mutual pain and tears upon our departure.

We didn't need affidavits because the I-130 we used preceded the current one that features items E to J but if we neede affidavits, they would have included things from the paragraph above because that's what USCIS is asking for. All that said, all evidence indicates they don't expect this kind of thing from newlyweds who haven't lived in the same country together yet.