WITNESS AFFIDAVITS

[sunandmoon 450]

as the instruction said:Affidavits sworn to or affirmed by third parties having personal knowledge of the bona fides of the marital relationship. (Each affidavit must contain the full name and address, date and place of birth of the person making the affidavit, his or her relationship to the petitioner of beneficiary, if any, and complete information and details explaining how the person acquired his or her knowledge of your marriage)

Ladies, I think your misunderstanding what is trying to be said by some members.

Bona fide: made in good faith without fraud or deceit.

True the instructions say to explain how the third party acquired knowledge of your marriage ( attended the wedding)

the affidavit would be more useful if it contains information why the person feels your relationship is genuine

( bona fide).

The witness didn't just attend the wedding, she actually presided the wedding being the judge, not a fake judge, that makes the marriage genuine. Another proof, if the wedding the judge presided was fake, then we wont be able to acquire a marriage certificate from NSO because fake marriages won't appear on NSO records.

I'm sorry ronyazi, but i'm not the one who doesn't understand them. I never said to make that affidavit as their guide, i posted it saying thats how my affidavit looked like and they keep on telling me that my affidavit's contents were not correct. How can anyone here say that the contents were wrong, nor they are correct. If they find it wrong and then i was approved, then they have to call the attention of the USCIS to why a wrong content of an affidavit had been approved.

Ok, I'll leave out what anyone else has posted and just focus between our posts. I understand you posted your affidavit as an example of what you submitted. I'm not saying you did anything wrong with what you submitted with your petiton.

I'm just pointing out that the affidavit could be more useful if it also contained information from others why they feel their is a genuine ( bona fide) relationship.

[keltic 1]

Hi Keltic,

I am sorry, but we are talking about I-130, Petition for Alien Relative, (i believe Instructions for I-751, Petition to Remove Conditions on Residence is different from IR-130)

Shape

FILING IR-130

What Documents Do You Need to Prove Family Relationship?

A. A copy of your marriage certificate.

B. If either you or your spouse were previously married, submit copies of documents showing that all prior marriages were legally terminated.

C. A passport-style color photo of yourself and a passport-style color photo of your husband or wife, taken within 30 days of the date of this petition. The photos must have a white background and be glossy unretouched and not mounted. The dimensions of the full frontal facial image should be about 1 inch from the chin to top of the hair. Using pencil or felt pen, lightly print the name (and Alien Registration Number, if known) on the back of each photograph.

D. A completed and signed Form G-325A, Biographic Information, for you and a Form G-325A for your husband or wife. Except for your name and signature you do not have to repeat on Form G-325A the information given on your Form I-130 petition.

NOTE: In addition to the required documentation listed above, you should submit one or more of the following types of documentation that may evidence that bona fides of your marriage:

E. Documentation showing joint ownership or property; or

F. A lease showing joint tenancy of a common residence; or

G. Documentation showing co-mingling of financial resources; or

H. Birth certificate(s) of child(ren) born to you, the petitioner, and your spouse together; or

I. Affidavits sworn to or affirmed by third parties having personal knowledge of the bona fides of the marital relationship. (Each affidavit must contain the full name and address, date and place of birth of the person making the affidavit, his or her relationship to the petitioner of beneficiary, if any, and complete information and details explaining how the person acquired his or her knowledge of your marriage); or

J. Any other relevant documentation to establish that there is an ongoing marital union.

what i posted was referring to an I-751... i thought witness affidavits would be fairly uniform to whichever form was being filed... im sorry for that confusion... i still think that what you have posted could be used for the I-751 if the further info were added, so thank you for those posts...

while reading what is on the I-130 instructions, it is more vague... no wonder it seems to be up for so much debate...

i guess it could go either way... the only thing i see that is absolutely definite is under "j" asking for relevant documentation of an ongoing marital union... i dont think it would hurt to add it in...

but hey, you got approved, yes? so dont worry what anyone else thinks... each person who is seeking information on this site (or anywhere else, for that matter) is ultimately responsible for the decisions they make...

Edited April 27, 2008 by keltic

[✿Ice Rain✿ 0]

what i posted was referring to an I-751... i thought witness affidavits would be fairly uniform to whichever form was being filed... im sorry for that confusion... i still think that what you have posted could be used for the I-751 if the further info were added, so thank you for those posts...

while reading what is on the I-130 instructions, it is more vague... no wonder it seems to be up for so much debate...

i guess it could go either way... the only thing i see that is absolutely definite is under "j" asking for relevant documentation of an ongoing marital union... i dont think it would hurt to add it in...

but hey, you got approved, yes? so dont worry what anyone else thinks... each person who is seeking information on this site (or anywhere else, for that matter) is ultimately responsible for the decisions they make...

Thank you Keltic.

Yes we get approved. With regards to letter J, the only thing i could think of that time was the "marriage license".

Good Luck to all of us on our journeys.

Shape

Edited April 27, 2008 by SHAPE OF MY HEART

[N360 0]

i think that what seems to be happening in this thread is just miscommunication... i dont think anyone is purposely trying to mislead ppl...

I know its mis-communication. Two sides talking about two different things.

Like bnm, I give up. he he

One party is clearly not talking about the affidavits anymore. Just "personal" garbage.

[pushbrk 12,898]

pushbrk,

for the nth times, why do u really wanna insist on "the relationship" when in fact the uscis clearly wrote there "marriage"?

PLEASE READ POST #82 AGAIN SEE FOR YOURSELF WHAT USCIS WAS LOOKING FOR... IT CONTRADICTS ON WHAT YOU INSIST

THIS ONE IS A CONTEXT FROM USCIS >>>information and details explaining how the person acquired his or her knowledge of your marriage)

THIS ONE IS A CONTEXT FROM PUSHBRK >>> The affidavits should contain information about the relationship, not the wedding.

I'll answer the why question gladly and thoroughly. First, the USCIS wrote a lot of things including but not limited to using the word "marriage". Sometimes we can get away with following only the context of one phrase. More often we need at least a full sentance. Sometimes we need a paragraph, other times a section and still other times we must follow the complete context of a form's instructions including all paragraphs and sections. Further, we sometimes need to use more than the most simplified definition of a word. Many people hire attorneys to sort through all this kind of thing for them because they know they aren't able to do it themselves. Others ask those who do have the capabilities or seek help here.

The I-130 is filed in behalf of a relative of a US Citizen. So, the beginning of all context in the instructions is establishing the category of family relationship.

For a spouse, from the instructions....

You have to prove that there is a family relationship between you and your relative. If you are filing for:

1. A husband or wife, submit the following documentation:

A. A copy of your marriage certificate.

B. If either you or your spouse were previously married, submit copies of documents showing that all prior marriages were legally terminated.

A. and B. are required to show both that you were B. eligible to marry and A. legally and lawfully married with said marriage registered with the appropriate local jurisdictional authority. No other evidence of a legal and lawful marriage is asked for in this or any other section.

Please note that marriages that are "not bona fide" as in "entered into exclusively to derive an immigration benefit" will be able to submit a "Marriage Certificate" or all the evidence asked for that the marriage is a legal one, duly recorded and certified.

Now let's take a look at the context of the section that lists items E through J.

NOTE: In addition to the required documentation listed above, you should submit one or more of the following types of documentation that may evidence that bona fides of your marriage:

To understand the context we must first understand the meaning of "bonafides of your marriage". Since you've already provided a marriage certificate, you can conclude they aren't talking about whether your marriage is legal.

From Webster:

bona fide

1 : made in good faith without fraud or deceit <a bona fide offer to buy a farm>

2 : made with earnest intent : sincere

3 : neither specious nor counterfeit : genuine

synonyms see authentic

Let's take a look at the meaning of the word "marriage" just for good measure.

1 a (1): the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law (2): the state of being united to a person of the same sex in a relationship like that of a traditional marriage <same-sex marriage> b: the mutual relation of married persons : wedlock c: the institution whereby individuals are joined in a marriage

2: an act of marrying or the rite by which the married status is effected; especially : the wedding ceremony and attendant festivities or formalities

3: an intimate or close union

Note items 2. b. and 3. and then understand that items E to J are intended to demonstrate not just a marriage but one entered into in good faith and without deceit or in more pointed words, for something far more than to derive an immigration benefit to one of the parties.

Now let's look at what we can learn about the context from the items preceding "I". Do any address whether or not the wedding was legal, lawful and registered? Do any ask for witness statement as to whether an actual wedding occured? No, they don't. Each item provides evidence that the marriage is something more than simply legal and lawful.

E. Documentation showing joint ownership or property; or

F. A lease showing joint tenancy of a common residence; or

G. Documentation showing co-mingling of financial resources; or

H. Birth certificate(s) of child(ren) born to you, the petitioner, and your spouse together; or

I. Affidavits sworn to or affirmed by third parties having personal knowledge of the bona fides of the marital relationship. (Each affidavit must contain the full name and address, date and place of birth of the person making the affidavit, his or her relationship to the petitioner of beneficiary, if any, and complete information and details explaining how the person acquired his or her knowledge of your marriage); or

J. Any other relevant documentation to establish that there is an ongoing marital union.

Since many people cannot possibly supply E, F, G or H, then start focusing on I, "affidavits" when really J, "any other" is usually most appropriate for newlyweds who have never lived in the same country.

Back to understanding context. Item I above contains a completion of a sentence before the parenthetical addition. That sentence properly read would read...

In addition to the required documentation listed above, you should submit affidavits sworn to or affirmed by third parties having personal knowledge of the bona fides of the marital relationship.

What is contained in the parenthesis is intended to add details about the format and additional information that should appear in the affidavit, not a change in the meaning of "knowledge of the bona fides of the marital relationship."

As such, affidavits that only affirm a legal wedding took place, do not qualify as affidavits regarding the "bona fides of the marital relationship."

"Bona fides of the relationship" is the key to item I.

"Copy of Marriage Certificate" is the key to demonstrating legal and lawful marriage. No additional evidence, whether affidavit or otherwise is even suggested.

For example, a meaningful affidavit from say a Minister who performed the marriage might contain the information that they provided multiple pre-marital counseling to the couple. From a family member who attended the wedding, such an affidavit might include statements about how they observed the relationship developing over time. In our case, where we met on the internet and married two days after our first in person meeting, perhaps an affidavit from the person who observed the evolution of the relationship over time by translating our first twenty or more emails and chat sessions, met us at the airport, went with us to the marriage registration office and observed our disappointment that our documentation was not sufficiently translated to get married that day.....attended the wedding and banquet after, then had dinner with us in their home after the honeymoon and escorted us to the airport to see the mutual pain and tears upon our departure.

We didn't need affidavits because the I-130 we used preceded the current one that features items E to J but if we neede affidavits, they would have included things from the paragraph above because that's what USCIS is asking for. All that said, all evidence indicates they don't expect this kind of thing from newlyweds who haven't lived in the same country together yet.

[N360 0]

Now let's look at what we can learn about the context from the items preceding "I". Do any address whether or not the wedding was legal, lawful and registered? Do any ask for witness statement as to whether an actual wedding occured? No, they don't. Each item provides evidence that the marriage is something more than simply legal and lawful.

E. Documentation showing joint ownership or property; or

F. A lease showing joint tenancy of a common residence; or

G. Documentation showing co-mingling of financial resources; or

H. Birth certificate(s) of child(ren) born to you, the petitioner, and your spouse together; or

I. Affidavits sworn to or affirmed by third parties having personal knowledge of the bona fides of the marital relationship. (Each affidavit must contain the full name and address, date and place of birth of the person making the affidavit, his or her relationship to the petitioner of beneficiary, if any, and complete information and details explaining how the person acquired his or her knowledge of your marriage); or

J. Any other relevant documentation to establish that there is an ongoing marital union.[/b]

This is why in my earlier post on this thread, I said that I submitted "our names" on leases and bank certificate on me and my wife's "joint" bank account. F and G. And I said that I think they carried more weight than the sworn affidavits I submitted with my I-130.

Items E through H provides evidence of a marital "relationship".

But if people still wish to submit affidavits, take what Shape so graciously shared here and just modify it a bit to make sure your affiants talks about the relationship and not the wedding.

Edited April 27, 2008 by NoelandTintin

[pushbrk 12,898]

Now let's look at what we can learn about the context from the items preceding "I". Do any address whether or not the wedding was legal, lawful and registered? Do any ask for witness statement as to whether an actual wedding occured? No, they don't. Each item provides evidence that the marriage is something more than simply legal and lawful.

E. Documentation showing joint ownership or property; or

F. A lease showing joint tenancy of a common residence; or

G. Documentation showing co-mingling of financial resources; or

H. Birth certificate(s) of child(ren) born to you, the petitioner, and your spouse together; or

I. Affidavits sworn to or affirmed by third parties having personal knowledge of the bona fides of the marital relationship. (Each affidavit must contain the full name and address, date and place of birth of the person making the affidavit, his or her relationship to the petitioner of beneficiary, if any, and complete information and details explaining how the person acquired his or her knowledge of your marriage); or

J. Any other relevant documentation to establish that there is an ongoing marital union.[/b]

This is why in my earlier post on this thread, I said that I submitted "our names" on leases and bank certificate on me and my wife's "joint" bank account. F and G. And I said that I think they carried more weight than the sworn affidavits I submitted with my I-130.

Items E through H provides evidence of a marital "relationship".

But if people still wish to submit affidavits, take what Shape so graciously shared here and just modify it a bit to make sure your affiants talks about the relationship and not the wedding.

Yes, the format presented in post one of this thread is absolutely excellent but the content represents a misunderstanding of the purpose of the affidavits. Relationship, not wedding.

[✿Ice Rain✿ 0]

Guys the affidavits i have posted here were done , were submitted 7 months ago, it cant be changed anymore. Nor call them and say "hey our affidavit we submitted were wrong."

If you like to advise people to not do what i did, to not put the contents i did with mine, then i think it's better and appropriate say it nicely and in proper way by addressing to them and not contemplating the affidavits that I submitted already , and were being approved already.

And AGAIN, for couple of times already MY HUSBAND AND I DO NOT HAVE Items E through H, so the possible left option that we can add is the LETTER "i".

This is for people (who opted to submit affidavits) that has none in Items E through H. Affidavits, is the possible option if there is none in items E to H, "like in our case".

If you really think what we presented was wrong, then it is your opinion already. And in my opinion, I think, maybe you need to call then the attention of the USCIS to why we get approved, with a wrong content of an affidavit attached to the IR-130.

And please, i am repeating this again , to anyone who opted to attach affidavit in their petitions (with no items E to H) "I hope i made clear to everyone that i didn't post this affidavits to others to do exactly what we did. Of course you guys have your own minds and own ways how you will present yours. It's up to you guys how you can add something or delete something in our affidavits based on your cases."

Thank you for your time reading this.Good Luck everyone.

Shape

Edited April 28, 2008 by SHAPE OF MY HEART

[kitty loves moudi 0]

pushbrk,

for the nth times, why do u really wanna insist on "the relationship" when in fact the uscis clearly wrote there "marriage"?

PLEASE READ POST #82 AGAIN SEE FOR YOURSELF WHAT USCIS WAS LOOKING FOR... IT CONTRADICTS ON WHAT YOU INSIST

THIS ONE IS A CONTEXT FROM USCIS >>>information and details explaining how the person acquired his or her knowledge of your marriage)

THIS ONE IS A CONTEXT FROM PUSHBRK >>> The affidavits should contain information about the relationship, not the wedding.

I'll answer the why question gladly and thoroughly. First, the USCIS wrote a lot of things including but not limited to using the word "marriage". Sometimes we can get away with following only the context of one phrase. More often we need at least a full sentance. Sometimes we need a paragraph, other times a section and still other times we must follow the complete context of a form's instructions including all paragraphs and sections. Further, we sometimes need to use more than the most simplified definition of a word. Many people hire attorneys to sort through all this kind of thing for them because they know they aren't able to do it themselves. Others ask those who do have the capabilities or seek help here.

The I-130 is filed in behalf of a relative of a US Citizen. So, the beginning of all context in the instructions is establishing the category of family relationship.

For a spouse, from the instructions....

You have to prove that there is a family relationship between you and your relative. If you are filing for:

1. A husband or wife, submit the following documentation:

A. A copy of your marriage certificate.

B. If either you or your spouse were previously married, submit copies of documents showing that all prior marriages were legally terminated.

A. and B. are required to show both that you were B. eligible to marry and A. legally and lawfully married with said marriage registered with the appropriate local jurisdictional authority. No other evidence of a legal and lawful marriage is asked for in this or any other section.

Please note that marriages that are "not bona fide" as in "entered into exclusively to derive an immigration benefit" will be able to submit a "Marriage Certificate" or all the evidence asked for that the marriage is a legal one, duly recorded and certified.

Now let's take a look at the context of the section that lists items E through J.

NOTE: In addition to the required documentation listed above, you should submit one or more of the following types of documentation that may evidence that bona fides of your marriage:

To understand the context we must first understand the meaning of "bonafides of your marriage". Since you've already provided a marriage certificate, you can conclude they aren't talking about whether your marriage is legal.

From Webster:

bona fide

1 : made in good faith without fraud or deceit <a bona fide offer to buy a farm>

2 : made with earnest intent : sincere

3 : neither specious nor counterfeit : genuine

synonyms see authentic

Let's take a look at the meaning of the word "marriage" just for good measure.

1 a (1): the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law (2): the state of being united to a person of the same sex in a relationship like that of a traditional marriage <same-sex marriage> b: the mutual relation of married persons : wedlock c: the institution whereby individuals are joined in a marriage

2: an act of marrying or the rite by which the married status is effected; especially : the wedding ceremony and attendant festivities or formalities

3: an intimate or close union

Note items 2. b. and 3. and then understand that items E to J are intended to demonstrate not just a marriage but one entered into in good faith and without deceit or in more pointed words, for something far more than to derive an immigration benefit to one of the parties.

Now let's look at what we can learn about the context from the items preceding "I". Do any address whether or not the wedding was legal, lawful and registered? Do any ask for witness statement as to whether an actual wedding occured? No, they don't. Each item provides evidence that the marriage is something more than simply legal and lawful.

E. Documentation showing joint ownership or property; or

F. A lease showing joint tenancy of a common residence; or

G. Documentation showing co-mingling of financial resources; or

H. Birth certificate(s) of child(ren) born to you, the petitioner, and your spouse together; or

I. Affidavits sworn to or affirmed by third parties having personal knowledge of the bona fides of the marital relationship. (Each affidavit must contain the full name and address, date and place of birth of the person making the affidavit, his or her relationship to the petitioner of beneficiary, if any, and complete information and details explaining how the person acquired his or her knowledge of your marriage); or

J. Any other relevant documentation to establish that there is an ongoing marital union.

Since many people cannot possibly supply E, F, G or H, then start focusing on I, "affidavits" when really J, "any other" is usually most appropriate for newlyweds who have never lived in the same country.

Back to understanding context. Item I above contains a completion of a sentence before the parenthetical addition. That sentence properly read would read...

In addition to the required documentation listed above, you should submit affidavits sworn to or affirmed by third parties having personal knowledge of the bona fides of the marital relationship.

What is contained in the parenthesis is intended to add details about the format and additional information that should appear in the affidavit, not a change in the meaning of "knowledge of the bona fides of the marital relationship."

As such, affidavits that only affirm a legal wedding took place, do not qualify as affidavits regarding the "bona fides of the marital relationship."

"Bona fides of the relationship" is the key to item I.

"Copy of Marriage Certificate" is the key to demonstrating legal and lawful marriage. No additional evidence, whether affidavit or otherwise is even suggested.

For example, a meaningful affidavit from say a Minister who performed the marriage might contain the information that they provided multiple pre-marital counseling to the couple. From a family member who attended the wedding, such an affidavit might include statements about how they observed the relationship developing over time. In our case, where we met on the internet and married two days after our first in person meeting, perhaps an affidavit from the person who observed the evolution of the relationship over time by translating our first twenty or more emails and chat sessions, met us at the airport, went with us to the marriage registration office and observed our disappointment that our documentation was not sufficiently translated to get married that day.....attended the wedding and banquet after, then had dinner with us in their home after the honeymoon and escorted us to the airport to see the mutual pain and tears upon our departure.

We didn't need affidavits because the I-130 we used preceded the current one that features items E to J but if we neede affidavits, they would have included things from the paragraph above because that's what USCIS is asking for. All that said, all evidence indicates they don't expect this kind of thing from newlyweds who haven't lived in the same country together yet.

Impressive, you are very good at this. I'm sure many will benefit from your thorough explanation. Thanks!

[N360 0]

Impressive, you are very good at this. I'm sure many will benefit from your thorough explanation. Thanks!

Yeah I know. I wish we could pin pushbrk's explanation for those just about to submit their I-130s.

[✿Ice Rain✿ 0]

Guys the affidavits i have posted here were done , were submitted 7 months ago, it cant be changed anymore. Nor call them and say "hey our affidavit we submitted were wrong."

If you like to advise people to not do what i did, to not put the contents i did with mine, then i think it's better and appropriate say it nicely and in proper way by addressing to them and not contemplating the affidavits that I submitted already , and were being approved already.

And AGAIN, for couple of times already MY HUSBAND AND I DO NOT HAVE Items E through H, so the possible left option that we can add is the LETTER "i".

This is for people (who opted to submit affidavits) that has none in Items E through H. Affidavits, is the possible option if there is none in items E to H, "like in our case".

If you really think what we presented was wrong, then it is your opinion already. And in my opinion, I think, maybe you need to call then the attention of the USCIS to why we get approved, with a wrong content of an affidavit attached to the IR-130.

And please, i am repeating this again , to anyone who opted to attach affidavit in their petitions (with no items E to H) "I hope i made clear to everyone that i didn't post this affidavits to others to do exactly what we did. Of course you guys have your own minds and own ways how you will present yours. It's up to you guys how you can add something or delete something in our affidavits based on your cases."

Thank you for your time reading this.Good Luck everyone.

Shape

[Loterly_Richard 0]

i think that what seems to be happening in this thread is just miscommunication... i dont think anyone is purposely trying to mislead ppl...

I know its mis-communication. Two sides talking about two different things.

Like bnm, I give up. he he

One party is clearly not talking about the affidavits anymore. Just "personal" garbage.

hi vjers, i know this one is out of topic, but noel was the first one who did this, refer to his POST #48. TELL ME WHO IS A REAL GARBAGE HERE? HE SHOWED THE READERS HERE THE WRONG LINK JUST TO SAVE HIS A**, TO GET SYMPATHY FROM THE READERS. A REAL TOUGH MAN ASKING FOR SYMPATHY FROM THE READERS..HUHUHU I FEEL SO SORRY FOR YOU THAT A GIRL LIKE ME IS BUSTING YOUR B**** OFF. WELL TAKE IT LIKE A REAL MAN. IM GONNA POST HERE THE LINK THAT WILL MAKE YOU PROUD.

this is the story, i was a newbie here at that time seeking for an advice, it is a very delicate matter so MYLA (my very first vjer friend here said we will ask advices from other vjers about my delicate concern, then i said i dont know how to post a new topic and i dont wanna be embarassed) so myla posted the concern. AND THIS NOEL HAPPENED TO REPLY A VERY ENCOURAGING "OPINION" THAT HE THINKS WILL HELP THE CURRENT CONCERN. AND AFTER HIS REPLY TO THAT THREAD, NOONE BOTHERED TO POST THEIR REPLIES ANYMORE FOR SOME REASONS I DONT KNOW, MAYBE OTHER VJERS CHOSE NOT TO ADD ANY REPLIES UNDER NOEL'S REPLY BECOZ THEY WILL BE DRAG WITH HIS SO CALLED "OPINION". ATTEMPTED SUICIDE IS NOT A JOKE, PEOPLE WOULD COME TO THIS WEBSITE TO SEEK FOR HELP GOOD ADVICE AND NOT TO BE JUDGED WITH WHAT STUPID THINGS THEY DID IN THEIR PASTS. BUT NOEL HERE IS SO GREAT THAT THE THREAD THAT MYLA STARTED DIDNT MOVE ANYMORE SO WE WERE NOT ABLE TO GET NEW ADVICES. SO I DECIDED TO LEARN HOW TO POST THE TOPIC AND USE MY PROFILE COZ I WAS REALLY DESPERATE AND CONFUSED THAT TIME, I WAS REALLY EAGER TO SEEK HELP AND HEAR ADVICES

let me show you the link that almost give me a false hope, that almost made me give up, if not for some of the good vjers here who backed me up, i wouldnt have survived.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=113793&st=0&p=1629805entry1629805

NOEL THE NEXT TIME YOU OPEN YOUR BIG GIRLY MOUTH, KINDLY THINK IT OVER IF UR SO CALLED OPINION WOULD HELP OR JUST GIVE MORE PROBLEMS TO THE PERSON CONCERNED, KEEP YOUR OPINION TO YOURSELF TO DELICATE TOPIC PLSSSSS.

YOUR HEART IS PUMPING OUT NOT BLOOD BUT GARBAGE. YOUR BRAIN IS LOADED WITH SPERM CELLS INSTEAD OF BRAIN CELLS. DID I EMBARASSED YOU? IM SORRY NOEL, DID I HIT YOUR MALE EGO? IM SORRY NOEL. IF YOURE A REAL MAN, TAKE IT LIKE A MAN. IF YOU ARE REALLY TOUGH, LETS TAKE THIS OUT OF THIS WEBSITE. YOU HAVE YOUR EDGE ALREADY COZ IM JUST A TINY LITTLE GIRL, SO DONT TELL ME YOU'LL BE A CHICKEN SH**. YOU TALK A LOT NOEL, IM SICK AND TIRED OF WHATEVER IS COMING OUT OF YOUR MOUTH, LET'S TAKE THIS OUTSIDE... PM ME WHEN YOURE READY COZ IM ALWAYS READY WITH SOMEONE LIKE YOU WHO KEEPS ON HURTING PEOPLE'S FEELINGS AND TELLING THEM "OOOPS SORRY, THAT WAS JUST MY OPINION". OH COME ON MANNNN.

[Loterly_Richard 0]

i think that what seems to be happening in this thread is just miscommunication... i dont think anyone is purposely trying to mislead ppl...

I know its mis-communication. Two sides talking about two different things.

Like bnm, I give up. he he

One party is clearly not talking about the affidavits anymore. Just "personal" garbage.

hi vjers, i know this one is out of topic, but noel was the first one who did this, refer to his POST #48. TELL ME WHO IS A REAL GARBAGE HERE? HE SHOWED THE READERS HERE THE WRONG LINK JUST TO SAVE HIS A**, TO GET SYMPATHY FROM THE READERS. A REAL TOUGH MAN ASKING FOR SYMPATHY FROM THE READERS..HUHUHU I FEEL SO SORRY FOR YOU THAT A GIRL LIKE ME IS BUSTING YOUR B**** OFF. WELL TAKE IT LIKE A REAL MAN. IM GONNA POST HERE THE LINK THAT WILL MAKE YOU PROUD.

this is the story, i was a newbie here at that time seeking for an advice, it is a very delicate matter so MYLA (my very first vjer friend here said we will ask advices from other vjers about my delicate concern, then i said i dont know how to post a new topic and i dont wanna be embarassed) so myla posted the concern. AND THIS NOEL HAPPENED TO REPLY A VERY ENCOURAGING "OPINION" THAT HE THINKS WILL HELP THE CURRENT CONCERN. AND AFTER HIS REPLY TO THAT THREAD, NOONE BOTHERED TO POST THEIR REPLIES ANYMORE FOR SOME REASONS I DONT KNOW, MAYBE OTHER VJERS CHOSE NOT TO ADD ANY REPLIES UNDER NOEL'S REPLY BECOZ THEY WILL BE DRAG WITH HIS SO CALLED "OPINION". ATTEMPTED SUICIDE IS NOT A JOKE, PEOPLE WOULD COME TO THIS WEBSITE TO SEEK FOR HELP GOOD ADVICE AND NOT TO BE JUDGED WITH WHAT STUPID THINGS THEY DID IN THEIR PASTS. BUT NOEL HERE IS SO GREAT THAT THE THREAD THAT MYLA STARTED DIDNT MOVE ANYMORE SO WE WERE NOT ABLE TO GET NEW ADVICES. SO I DECIDED TO LEARN HOW TO POST THE TOPIC AND USE MY PROFILE COZ I WAS REALLY DESPERATE AND CONFUSED THAT TIME, I WAS REALLY EAGER TO SEEK HELP AND HEAR ADVICES

let me show you the link that almost give me a false hope, that almost made me give up, if not for some of the good vjers here who backed me up, i wouldnt have survived.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=113793&st=0&p=1629805entry1629805

NOEL THE NEXT TIME YOU OPEN YOUR BIG GIRLY MOUTH, KINDLY THINK IT OVER IF UR SO CALLED OPINION WOULD HELP OR JUST GIVE MORE PROBLEMS TO THE PERSON CONCERNED, KEEP YOUR OPINION TO YOURSELF TO DELICATE TOPIC PLSSSSS.

YOUR HEART IS PUMPING OUT NOT BLOOD BUT GARBAGE. YOUR BRAIN IS LOADED WITH SPERM CELLS INSTEAD OF BRAIN CELLS. DID I EMBARASSED YOU? IM SORRY NOEL, DID I HIT YOUR MALE EGO? IM SORRY NOEL. IF YOURE A REAL MAN, TAKE IT LIKE A MAN. IF YOU ARE REALLY TOUGH, LETS TAKE THIS OUT OF THIS WEBSITE. YOU HAVE YOUR EDGE ALREADY COZ IM JUST A TINY LITTLE GIRL, SO DONT TELL ME YOU'LL BE A CHICKEN SH**. YOU TALK A LOT NOEL, IM SICK AND TIRED OF WHATEVER IS COMING OUT OF YOUR MOUTH, LET'S TAKE THIS OUTSIDE... PM ME WHEN YOURE READY COZ IM ALWAYS READY WITH SOMEONE LIKE YOU WHO KEEPS ON HURTING PEOPLE'S FEELINGS AND TELLING THEM "OOOPS SORRY, THAT WAS JUST MY OPINION". OH COME ON MANNNN.

this was your very nice opinion on that delicate matter, what do u think would someone like would feel? someone who was at that time seeking for help????

"Admit to it if the doctors asked. These procedures are for the protection of both the petitioner and the applicant.

Shes thinking of burning herself to cover the cuts she did to herself. From what it sounds like, at the moment, she needs the psych help more than the visa."

This post has been edited by NoelandTintin: Mar 4 2008, 06:44 AM

Edited April 28, 2008 by Loterly_Richard

[N360 0]

Loterly,

I'm sorry if I have embarrased you by linking to one of your old post. But I thought thats what you were referring to when you posted the quote below.

it doesnt sound like it is just an opinion, you stated a fact earlier, then restated that you dont know then now its just an opinion.

was it also an opinion when someone replied to a post that this "person" needs a psychiatrist more than a visa? it has nothing to do with this topic, but im just asking your opinion about this. is this a fact or an opinion?

What I didnt realize is that you actually hate me for something else. A post which you included in your latest post. Thanks for clarifying and I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings.

I'm sorry too if what I said is not what you wanted to hear. But a woman thinking about burning herself to cover scars caused by cuts she did to herself on her wrist, my initial reaction is that, that person needs help and should not be worried about a fiance visa. That person should be more worried about her mental state and physical health.

You asked for advice on a public forum. That's what I gave. Sorry if I offended you.

[Loterly_Richard 0]

Loterly,

I'm sorry if I have embarrased you by linking to one of your old post. But I thought thats what you were referring to when you posted the quote below.

it doesnt sound like it is just an opinion, you stated a fact earlier, then restated that you dont know then now its just an opinion.

was it also an opinion when someone replied to a post that this "person" needs a psychiatrist more than a visa? it has nothing to do with this topic, but im just asking your opinion about this. is this a fact or an opinion?

What I didnt realize is that you actually hate me for something else. A post which you included in your latest post. Thanks for clarifying and I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings.

I'm sorry too if what I said is not what you wanted to hear. But a woman thinking about burning herself to cover scars caused by cuts she did to herself on her wrist, my initial reaction is that, that person needs help and should not be worried about a fiance visa. That person should be more worried about her mental state and physical health.

You asked for advice on a public forum. That's what I gave. Sorry if I offended you.

if that is how you replied to that post, then i guess u wont be hearing anything from me.. U DIG THAT?? im glad to know that u can say nice and good advice, but the fact still remains that was not how you said it on that post. it goes the same with your other posts, this is a public form,YES I KNOW THAT RIGHT, so YOU HAVE TO BE RESPONSIBLE WITH WHAT YOU WANNA SAY,YOU HAVE TO BE CAREFUL WITH YOUR WORDS, COZ IF YOU NOTICED, YOU CANT TAKE THEM BACK ANYMORE NOR EDIT THEM ONCE THEY WERE POSTED. THEY WILL BE POSTED THERE FOREVER.

i accept your apology as im sending now mine.