Last Night Clinton Won the Pennsylvania Primary, but Lost the War for the Nomination

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

The Pennsylvania Primary was Hillary Clinton's last chance to deliver a game changing blow to Obama's campaign for the nomination. She failed to deliver.

Pennsylvania provided her with her final real opportunity to knock the wheels off the Obama campaign. She needed a crushing victory of 18% to 25% to have any real chance of altering the math or the psychology. Demographically, Pennsylvania was made for Hillary: the second oldest state in the nation, heavily blue collar, Catholic and rural -- Hillary's voter profile. She started with a lead of almost 20 points. But her final margin -- which the Pennsylvania Secretary of State says was only 8.6% -- fell far short of what was needed to stop Obama's nomination. Here's why:

1). Pledged Delegates. By CNN's count, Clinton netted about 14 pledged delegates in Pennsylvania. That still leaves Obama up by 151 pledged delegates. It is likely that after Guam, Indiana and North Carolina, there will be no net change in pledged delegates, even if Clinton wins Indiana, since Obama will certainly pick up delegates in North Carolina. But at that point only 251 pledged delegates will remain to be chosen.

Even if she got 80% of all of the pledged delegates that remain after Indiana, she would still trail Obama at the end of the day.

The battle for the pledged delegate advantage is over.

2). Popular Vote. Pennsylvania was her best opportunity to really close in on Obama's popular vote lead. She picked up about 216,000 net votes. But that still leaves her over 600,000 votes behind, and Obama will likely increase his popular vote margin further after the contests on May 6th. Her failure to blow Obama out in Pennsylvania makes it almost impossible for her to close the popular vote gap.

3). Electability. Clinton's entire strategy rests on the premise that she can convince Super Delegates that Obama is unelectable. Only a massive win in Pennsylvania would have credibly made that case. Clinton's victory did little to enhance her argument.

Regardless of the passions of the moment, history shows us that just because voters prefer one candidate in the primary, it doesn't mean they won't vote for her Democratic opponent in a general election when the choice is a Republican. When all is said and done, primary voters almost always vote for the candidate of their party in a general election - regardless of what they might say (on either side) in the middle of a primary fight.

In fact, the people who decide general elections rarely set foot in primary voting booths. They are the independent voters who vote only in general elections and unengaged voters who are would vote Democratic, but have to be mobilized to go to the polls.

The fact is that to whatever degree Hillary might have more appeal among independent rural and blue collar voters, Obama more than makes up in additional appeal to independent suburban voters. Obama's ability to mobilize new young and African American voters in the general election is indisputably greater than Clinton's.

And of course, Obama will not go into the General Election burdened by the towering Clinton negatives that her own negative campaign strategy increases daily.

The polls, and even Pennsylvania Governor and Clinton supporter Ed Rendell, make it clear that Obama can win Pennsylvania in the general election. But Obama can also broaden the playing field with a shot at winning states like Colorado and Virginia.

4). Super Delegates. Finally is a fact that is generally overlooked by pundits. At the close of the primaries, Obama will not need a stampede of Super Delegates to clinch the nomination. In fact he will only need about 40% of those that remain today.

Let's make the most conservative assumptions about the outcome of the remaining races: Guam, even; North Carolina, 58%-42% Obama; Indiana, 54%-46% Clinton; Kentucky, 60%-40% Clinton; West Virginia, 60%-40% Clinton; Oregon, 56%-44% Obama, Montana 56%-44% Obama; Puerto Rico, 60%-40% Clinton. That would leave Obama at 1,846 delegates at the close of the Primaries.

He would need only 41% of the Super Delegates remaining today to clinch the nomination with 2,025. And let's remember, he has picked up almost one Super Delegate a day for the last month. There is no reason to believe he won't keep picking up Super Delegates as the contest continues. So by the end of the primaries he will need an even lower percentage of the Super Delegates that remain.

All that remains for Clinton are more opportunities have her own campaign to be shut down. If she loses Indiana and North Carolina it will be extremely hard for her to continue. But there is no longer any opportunity for her to defeat Obama.

Clinton's may have won last night, but she failed to do what she needed to do to derail Obama's march to the nomination. In retrospect, Pennsylvania will appear as Clinton's Waterloo.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-cream...th_b_98165.html

[almaty 19]

good info..and interesting

[dalegg 143]

2). Popular Vote. Pennsylvania was her best opportunity to really close in on Obama's popular vote lead. She picked up about 216,000 net votes. But that still leaves her over 600,000 votes behind, and Obama will likely increase his popular vote margin further after the contests on May 6th. Her failure to blow Obama out in Pennsylvania makes it almost impossible for her to close the popular vote gap.

No, it leaves her only 501,138 votes behind. If she wins the Florida argument she's only 206,366 votes behind and this is not at all impossible to make up.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

2). Popular Vote. Pennsylvania was her best opportunity to really close in on Obama's popular vote lead. She picked up about 216,000 net votes. But that still leaves her over 600,000 votes behind, and Obama will likely increase his popular vote margin further after the contests on May 6th. Her failure to blow Obama out in Pennsylvania makes it almost impossible for her to close the popular vote gap.

No, it leaves her only 501,138 votes behind. If she wins the Florida argument she's only 206,366 votes behind and this is not at all impossible to make up.

Her FL argument lacks legitimacy.

[dalegg 143]

2). Popular Vote. Pennsylvania was her best opportunity to really close in on Obama's popular vote lead. She picked up about 216,000 net votes. But that still leaves her over 600,000 votes behind, and Obama will likely increase his popular vote margin further after the contests on May 6th. Her failure to blow Obama out in Pennsylvania makes it almost impossible for her to close the popular vote gap.

No, it leaves her only 501,138 votes behind. If she wins the Florida argument she's only 206,366 votes behind and this is not at all impossible to make up.

Her FL argument lacks legitimacy.

I don't know about that. Democrats have a history for wanting all votes in Florida to count.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

2). Popular Vote. Pennsylvania was her best opportunity to really close in on Obama's popular vote lead. She picked up about 216,000 net votes. But that still leaves her over 600,000 votes behind, and Obama will likely increase his popular vote margin further after the contests on May 6th. Her failure to blow Obama out in Pennsylvania makes it almost impossible for her to close the popular vote gap.

No, it leaves her only 501,138 votes behind. If she wins the Florida argument she's only 206,366 votes behind and this is not at all impossible to make up.

Her FL argument lacks legitimacy.

I don't know about that. Democrats have a history for wanting all votes in Florida to count.

They will. In November.

[Dan J 277]

For Hillary, last night was a Pyrrhic victory. She won, but her campaign is basically over.

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

It's not looking too good in FL for the Democrats if present polling is to be believed

[HAL 9000 96]

2). Popular Vote. Pennsylvania was her best opportunity to really close in on Obama's popular vote lead. She picked up about 216,000 net votes. But that still leaves her over 600,000 votes behind, and Obama will likely increase his popular vote margin further after the contests on May 6th. Her failure to blow Obama out in Pennsylvania makes it almost impossible for her to close the popular vote gap.

No, it leaves her only 501,138 votes behind. If she wins the Florida argument she's only 206,366 votes behind and this is not at all impossible to make up.

Her FL argument lacks legitimacy.

I don't know about that. Democrats have a history for wanting all votes in Florida to count.

They will. In November.

Well... assuming that the FL Dems don't muck up the rules they agreed to follow for that round.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

It's not looking too good in FL for the Democrats if present polling is to be believed

The general election is in November if the schedule is to be believed. That's over half a year from now. Remember half a year ago? McCain's campaign was virtually at it's end and Hillary was Ms. Inevitable on the Democrats side. Just a little over a month ago, Hillary still lead 20+ points in PA and she closed the race with a mere single digit lead despite having everything going in her favor in that race. In light of that, what value do these polls really have at this point? Not much if you ask me.

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

It's not looking too good in FL for the Democrats if present polling is to be believed

The general election is in November if the schedule is to be believed. That's over half a year from now. Remember half a year ago? McCain's campaign was virtually at it's end and Hillary was Ms. Inevitable on the Democrats side. Just a little over a month ago, Hillary still lead 20+ points in PA and she closed the race with a mere single digit lead despite having everything going in her favor in that race. In light of that, what value do these polls really have at this point? Not much if you ask me.

Yes, but Florida Democrats are largely made up with 2 constituency groups Obama has problems with: old people and hispanics. People who will probably find a moderate like McCain appealling.

Remember when it was suggested that Elian Gonzalez lost FL and the election for Gore? Conisdering Obama's remarks on Cuba (and I'm not saying I disagree with them), he really has an uphill battle. And it might be worth considering whether his position on I/P (which again, I don't disagree with) will help him with older Jewish retirees.

[no name 1]

She also got a superdel last night....

But her final margin -- which the Pennsylvania Secretary of State says was only 8.6% .

9.2%

http://www.electionreturns.state.pa.us/

Edited April 23, 2008 by illumine

[Dan J 277]

It's not looking too good in FL for the Democrats if present polling is to be believed

The general election is in November if the schedule is to be believed. That's over half a year from now. Remember half a year ago? McCain's campaign was virtually at it's end and Hillary was Ms. Inevitable on the Democrats side. Just a little over a month ago, Hillary still lead 20+ points in PA and she closed the race with a mere single digit lead despite having everything going in her favor in that race. In light of that, what value do these polls really have at this point? Not much if you ask me.

Yes, but Florida Democrats are largely made up with 2 constituency groups Obama has problems with: old people and hispanics. People who will probably find a moderate like McCain appealling.

Remember when it was suggested that Elian Gonzalez lost FL and the election for Gore? Conisdering Obama's remarks on Cuba (and I'm not saying I disagree with them), he really has an uphill battle. And it might be worth considering whether his position on I/P (which again, I don't disagree with) will help him with older Jewish retirees.

Obama could make up the difference by choosing the right VP candidate. Not Hillary since there is to much negativism between them to work. But he could find someone of that generation that would help him capture that demographic.

He could possibly win without it, but it would be a very very close race. If he can capture that demographic, he will win by a fairly large margin.

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

It's not looking too good in FL for the Democrats if present polling is to be believed

The general election is in November if the schedule is to be believed. That's over half a year from now. Remember half a year ago? McCain's campaign was virtually at it's end and Hillary was Ms. Inevitable on the Democrats side. Just a little over a month ago, Hillary still lead 20+ points in PA and she closed the race with a mere single digit lead despite having everything going in her favor in that race. In light of that, what value do these polls really have at this point? Not much if you ask me.

Yes, but Florida Democrats are largely made up with 2 constituency groups Obama has problems with: old people and hispanics. People who will probably find a moderate like McCain appealling.

Remember when it was suggested that Elian Gonzalez lost FL and the election for Gore? Conisdering Obama's remarks on Cuba (and I'm not saying I disagree with them), he really has an uphill battle. And it might be worth considering whether his position on I/P (which again, I don't disagree with) will help him with older Jewish retirees.

Obama could make up the difference by choosing the right VP candidate. Not Hillary since there is to much negativism between them to work. But he could find someone of that generation that would help him capture that demographic.

He could possibly win without it, but it would be a very very close race. If he can capture that demographic, he will win by a fairly large margin.

which one - hispanics or old people?

[no name 1]

Florida: McCain vs. Obama

RCP Average 03/15 - 04/10 McCain +11.7

Ohio: McCain vs. Obama

RCP Average 03/24 - 04/13 McCain +2.6

----

Florida: McCain vs. Clinton

RCP Average 03/15 - 04/10 McCain +0.3

Ohio: McCain vs. Clinton

RCP Average 03/24 - 04/13 Clinton +5.0

link

Edited April 23, 2008 by illumine