Canberra, Sydney protests over torch relay

[Heracles 417]

It would be irrelevant if I were the only person who holds that view. Safe to say - that I am not. If anything you're the one in the minority.

Just because a handful of the usual people back your views does not mean that everybody supports them..

I'd say the massive world-wide protests, as well as the official and long-standing condemnation of numerous human rights organisations, world governments and the UN do that. IMO of course.

Lets say 10 mill people protesting max; and that is a huge stretch. China obviously has over 1 billion who disagree.

Edited April 23, 2008 by Boo-Yah!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

BY, it sounds like your issue is with protesting and social activism generally.

"In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist..." --remember that?

My issue is with people who fail to accept that others have opposing views. If a country still wants to be communist then it is their right to do so. Not ours to tell them what they should be.

In the case of Tibet - they do not want to be Communist - as decades worth of passive and violent opposition attest to.

[Heracles 417]

In the case of Tibet - they do not want to be Communist - as decades worth of passive and violent opposition attest to.

Well bad luck it is theirs now. China will not give it up. Ever..

Edit: Protests don't mean #### to the Chinese government..

Edited April 23, 2008 by Boo-Yah!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

It would be irrelevant if I were the only person who holds that view. Safe to say - that I am not. If anything you're the one in the minority.

Just because a handful of the usual people back your views does not mean that everybody supports them..

I'd say the massive world-wide protests, as well as the official and long-standing condemnation of numerous human rights organisations, world governments and the UN do that. IMO of course.

Lets say 10 mill people protesting max; and that is a huge stretch. China obviously has over 1 billion who disagree.

Obviously

Except of course we don't know what the average Chinese citizen thinks do we - given the governments restrictions.

[Sister Fracas 5]

BY, it sounds like your issue is with protesting and social activism generally.

"In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist..." --remember that?

Thanks Big Agnes... it bears repeating the entire poem...

They came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.

Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up.

[Heracles 417]

Obviously

Except of course we don't know what the average Chinese citizen thinks do we - given the governments restrictions.

A Chinese protester's card reads: "French foreigner, China is not easily bullied!" during a protest outside a Carrefour supermaket in Hefei, in central China's Anhui province, on Saturday.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24259535/

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

In the case of Tibet - they do not want to be Communist - as decades worth of passive and violent opposition attest to.

Well bad luck it is theirs now. China will not give it up. Ever..

Edit: Protests don't mean #### to the Chinese government..

Well that kind of defeats your argument doesn't it - they don't want to be governed by China and they have no choice about that. Hence the international outcry.

Protests might not mean anything to the Chinese Govt, but that isn't really the point. Is it...

As I say - the IOC should never have awarded the games to China. It grants them a level of legitimacy and (propagandistic) publicity that they don't deserve. Essentially... its a reward.

Obviously

Except of course we don't know what the average Chinese citizen thinks do we - given the governments restrictions.

A Chinese protester's card reads: "French foreigner, China is not easily bullied!" during a protest outside a Carrefour supermaket in Hefei, in central China's Anhui province, on Saturday.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24259535/

That doesn't answer the question I'm afraid - not even close.

A journalist was tortured and jailed for writing "we want human rights not the Olympics" on a blog.

[Heracles 417]

They came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.

Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up.

Nowadays everyone seems to have something to say. Don't worry about actually doing anything as long as you speak up about it right. For example, Have a concert about global warming, Problem solved! Protest naked to fight child poverty, Problem solved!..

Now back to reality..

Edited April 23, 2008 by Boo-Yah!

[Heracles 417]

Well that kind of defeats your argument doesn't it - they don't want to be governed by China and they have no choice about that. Hence the international outcry.

Who are you to tell China what they can or cannot do??

Maybe the don't want a US style freedom of press in their country. Where a NYT can basically publish all of the country's secrets to sell papers..

Edited April 23, 2008 by Boo-Yah!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Expressing an opinion is doing "something".

Pretending that problems don't exist does not.

[Heracles 417]

Expressing an opinion is doing "something".

Pretending that problems don't exist does not.

I don't. I hate communism as much as I hate socialism.

The point is that it is their country for them to do as they please. I have no right to go to China and tell them how to live.

[Empress of Groovy 373]

BY, it sounds like your issue is with protesting and social activism generally.

"In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist..." --remember that?

Thanks Big Agnes... it bears repeating the entire poem...

They came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.

Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up.

The person in this poem was just respecting the Nazis' right to their views, you see. No rabble-rousers to force their anti-Jewish-extermination views down the Nazis' throats.

Edited April 23, 2008 by Big Agnes!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Well that kind of defeats your argument doesn't it - they don't want to be governed by China and they have no choice about that. Hence the international outcry.

Who are you to tell China what they can or cannot do??

Maybe the don't want a US style freedom of press in their country. Where a NYT can basically publish all of the country's secrets to sell papers..

What do you mean "who are you to tell China what they can or cannot do"?

All you need to do is look at the opinions coming out of Tibet.

[Empress of Groovy 373]

Expressing an opinion is doing "something".

Pretending that problems don't exist does not.

I don't. I hate communism as much as I hate socialism.

The point is that it is their country for them to do as they please. I have no right to go to China and tell them how to live.

You still haven't addressed the question of who can do as they please.

[Heracles 417]

What do you mean "who are you to tell China what they can or cannot do"?

All you need to do is look at the opinions coming out of Tibet.

Will China change because you or anyone else tells them to do so? I'll answer for you. NO

Simple as that..