MENA WOMEN: What kind of jobs are your husbands doing/looking into?

[tammy2688 1]

my husband is a mechanical engineer and can't get an interview here in america for the life of him! every job he's sent his resume to doesn't call back. i think just taking any job, going to more school, then looking again after might give him a better chance.

a friend of mine from morocco who moved to the US 32 years ago (things are different now, i know) went to school starting at high school even was a college graduate from morocco....and now he's the vice president of a bank (making bank!lol) so it can happen. i suggest putting all your husbands back in school here and see what happens!

Yes, taking a job and going to school really does help as I have seen it with my own eyes. Yes, I also know a man who came here about 34 years ago, and he is now the executive of Mutual Banking. There is good opportunity to work upwards, its just now with the economy and the taboo on these men, its harder and the process, all the more headachy for us who only wish to see our husbands satisfied with their work and give them peace of mind.

but they can tell a lot of times by the person's name if they have half a brain!

i had my husband abbreviate his name because his full name is practically impossible to pronounce. he refuses to use another name all together though.

absolutely. as a side note, Simplemale if everyone one did everything they are SUPPOSED to do, like not SUPPOSED to ask/look at religion I wouldn't have even and these concerned women wouldn't have even wasted a breath to respod to this topic.

[tammy2688 1]

Abbas is a chemical engineer with a sub specialty in petroleum and gas.

I want him to follow his engineering career here in the USA. However, not if we have to move to some ####### area to pursue this. Like out in the middle of Texas.

Abbas, knows that chemical engineering is the best way to make some money. But his dream is to pursue skulpture and painting. He wants to open some sort of business doing base relief skulpture on people's houses. What he does not realize, this may be popular in Iran.but it would not work for houses made of wood (like the ones here in Portland, OR). It may work in New Mexico because they have a lot of adobe style buildings.

I try to encourage him to follow his dreams, but I also want him to realize that it will take baby steps.

Many foreigners think that life in USA is easy and that jobs and money fall from the trees. But that is not the case.

Exactly money does not fall of trees, its almost impossible to even SQUEEZE it out of trees now with this current situation. My husband too has some dreams of owning hotels, etc, but as I too, dont want to crush dreams...I say practice your writing and try to get good scores first dear, try to think practical jobs first....then you can dream after a few years of seeing how the job system works.

I believe with time and hard work, anything is possible. I have full faith in all of our husbands who are compassionate, intelligent human beings.

Even though habibi is not here yet, I do worry about this since the economy is not so great. I have prepared him for this tough by explaining this to him and even he can see it kind of because he watches things like the exchange rate and we all know the dollar is down, down, down. But he has a good attitude and he said he will do anything just to get work here when he comes.

Right, the first obstable is getting the visa, the 2nd and most profound is establishing here. My husband too has a good attitude and I have slowly told him to understand nothing will happen instantly, BUT there is great room for opportunities and there is everything that you need to fulfill your dreams. Time is needed to find these things though.

Edited April 23, 2008 by tammy2688

[tammy2688 1]

finding work in america sucks especially if your educated,,,,,,,,,

RIGHT YOU ARE. And it hurts those who are educated to see their intelligent disintegrated into pieces by these "equal opportunity" hirers. I believe then that even though its not fair, continuing to try for better jobs is important...in this dead end world..thats all we can do

[tammy2688 1]

Hubby is studying for the USMLE (United States Medical License Equivalent) which after he passes the second part he can start practicing medicine here for a reduced rate then if he passed all three parts. His sister who is a cardiologist came to the US last year with her Hubby who is an orthopedic surgeon and she passed the first part of the USMLE and has some prospects at various institutions in the US already. So she is working on her paper work to come back here later this year or early next year for one of those prospects.

Since her Husband already did a fellowship at John Hopkins this is a good example for her and Waleed. Waleed is also looking for a fellowship or a clerkship to parley him into a group of professionals to give him some experience and some contacts and possibly start a medical business with them when the time comes. I'm sure we'll be fine but only time will tell.

After he passes the exams and is secured in a good job practicing medicine he says we can start a family.

just a little advice from someone whos been there....tell him study hard and score well on those tests. hassan got 75 on his step 1 and 78 on step 2 and could hardly get a job with those scores. he had to do alot of begging to get into the local hospital residency program. he applied for a ton of programs and did not get one interview. when the post match scramble came we called and called and they wouldnt even talk to him because he didnt score 80. so those scores mean alot in getting a job.

ur husband is also going to have to do a 3 year residency first before a fellowship so dont plan on a family soon and plan on lots of hours alone cuz they will work him to death for a piss poor $40,000/year. its a little more but not much more. i cant remember what the exact amount is.

my husband is behind on his tests. he has 2 more to take before he finishes his second year in the residency program. he hardly has time to study so is best for ur husband to get them all behind him before he starts working.

Right, once they get into work it is tiring to study and keep up with both...if he can not work for a few months and finish the tests to get them over with that is the best thing to do...we all know how hard it is, I too made up my mind that there will be no talk of children, etc until there is some sense of establishment after my husband arrives

[palilover 1]

What do you mean by "no bad associations?" It is obvious from some names that these are Muslim names, but it is not the case all the time. By looking at some names, finding the religions are not so obvious. During the interview, they are not supposed to ask the job seeker about his religion.

They may not ask but they will make their own assumptions. I was actually asked and very rudely treated by an Israeli interviewer in NYC. Most people will not fight discrimination claims as they are very hard to fight. I spoke to a lawyer in MA regarding a similiar incident and she said everything is at will and they can do what they want. EOE is not alive and well in America.

If after hearing thousands of complaints of bad associations with Muslim names, seeing thousands of innocent men being scrutinized by the government for having names like Muhammads/Ahmed/Khan...after seeing first hand how anyone with a beard is treated..how any Muslim man is treated, how YES, the name directly is associated with religion in many cases and after seeing that yes, indeed after a name is abbreviated that the jobs get easier to have - (my own good friend, went from Sheikh Muhammad to "S.M"...life got better, got job as accountant...after seeing that religion IS asked that equal opportunity, if it were as real as you naiively claim for some odd reason in this post (while I know you know better) then most of the incredibly intelligent men coming in from MENA countries, engineers, doctors, teachers, would not have to look for min wage jobs and hope to climb from the bottom...thats what bad association means for anyone, as Seria said, with a half a brain, who can understand.

After the 9/11 attacks, many Muslim men abbreviated their names. many Mohammad's decided to be called Mo instead. When I was living in Ohio, every reference that a white man made to a Muslim was always "Abdullah this" or "Abdullah that". They did not say "some Muslim guy" or "some arab guy"...they would actually use a name of some imaginary arab/Muslim as he was making fun of their way of life and assosiating them with terrorism. So yes, I too believe that names play a part in assosiating certain things with a person or range of people.

[tammy2688 1]

Simplemale:

What do you mean by "no bad associations?" It is obvious from some names that these are Muslim names, but it is not the case all the time. By looking at some names, finding the religions are not so obvious. During the interview, they are not supposed to ask the job seeker about his religion.

Palilover:

They may not ask but they will make their own assumptions. I was actually asked and very rudely treated by an Israeli interviewer in NYC. Most people will not fight discrimination claims as they are very hard to fight. I spoke to a lawyer in MA regarding a similiar incident and she said everything is at will and they can do what they want. EOE is not alive and well in America.

After the 9/11 attacks, many Muslim men abbreviated their names. many Mohammad's decided to be called Mo instead. When I was living in Ohio, every reference that a white man made to a Muslim was always "Abdullah this" or "Abdullah that". They did not say "some Muslim guy" or "some arab guy"...they would actually use a name of some imaginary arab/Muslim as he was making fun of their way of life and assosiating them with terrorism. So yes, I too believe that names play a part in assosiating certain things with a person or range of people.

thats exactly what I meant. Right you are.

[nana_356 0]

times are very hard on muslim men right now!!! especially because mena men are raised in a society where men are the providers. It has got to be very different for them to come to the states and have a taste of the independent american woman!!

I remember when my family first moved here and people were trying to explain the whole process of credit cards to my parents, first thing they though was "free money??"

[Laveau 67]

Nordstrom was the first place to which he applied and he got the job. That was 3 months after his arrival, three days after he received authorization to work. He took on a 2nd job at an upscale hotel as security. After overworking himself he went fulltime as security in an office building and quickly became supervisor of security there. He searched for better paying jobs online. Didnt take long for him to land a supervisor position at another hotel. He quit the security gig and now he is a service express supervisor at a lovely hotel. He loves his job and I am very proud of him.

[sandinista! 1,816]

my husband finally after a 2 year wait is in his 2nd year residency and hating every minute of it. he says they are taking advantage of the arabs while the indians are being treated very well and he is sick of it. i keep trying to tell him its only for another year and half to just hang in there but im not so sure he will. they are tearing him down to where he is depressed all the time.

Donna I have seen this as well. A man who came at a similar time, one was Indian, one was from banngladesh, with Muslim name. The bangladeshi one had a masters, very smart young man. The indian man, who is also a friend of ours had little to no education, but a a simpler name with no bad associations. These cases are sometimes isolated but theres just something so hard about getting an Arab/Muslim into the work force. There are people who succeed though, its just a hard process to do. That's why I asked this question, after the first few months of bliss, we are bombarded with these problems. It's best to try to stick it out and I know all these men are intelligent - something good will come with time.

What do you mean by "no bad associations?" It is obvious from some names that these are Muslim names, but it is not the case all the time. By looking at some names, finding the religions are not so obvious. During the interview, they are not supposed to ask the job seeker about his religion.

If after hearing thousands of complaints of bad associations with Muslim names, seeing thousands of innocent men being scrutinized by the government for having names like Muhammads/Ahmed/Khan...after seeing first hand how anyone with a beard is treated..how any Muslim man is treated, how YES, the name directly is associated with religion in many cases and after seeing that yes, indeed after a name is abbreviated that the jobs get easier to have - (my own good friend, went from Sheikh Muhammad to "S.M"...life got better, got job as accountant...after seeing that religion IS asked that equal opportunity, if it were as real as you naiively claim for some odd reason in this post (while I know you know better) then most of the incredibly intelligent men coming in from MENA countries, engineers, doctors, teachers, would not have to look for min wage jobs and hope to climb from the bottom...thats what bad association means for anyone, as Seria said, with a half a brain, who can understand.

your ranting aside, nothing he said was incorrect. one cannot always tell what religion someone is based on their name. and he's correct, no one is ever supposed to be asked what religion they are when they are looking for a job. he never said that it doesn't happen, just that it isn't supposed to happen. and nowhere does he mention he has any naive beliefs about well-qualified men and women from mena coming to the us and finding work straight away with no discrimination whatsoever. the guy doesn't speak english as his first language, and asked you, politely, what you meant in your post by "no bad associations". this hysterical rudeness and half a brain comment were completely uncalled for.

[sereia 0]

I'm the one who said "half a brain" but its now been taken out of context. What *I* meant is if an interviewer sees a resume with the name Muhammad Al [enter Arabic last name here] they'd probably have a clue (if they had half a brain) that the person applying is Muslim and would not need to ask (although illegal, people DO). Of course not all Muslim's have names that you can tell from, and some do. In our personal experience, people cannot even pronounce my husband's first name so it was easier to shorten it so someone could call without embarrassing themselves when attempting to pronounce it. It still sounds Arabic but much easier to say.

I've been asked all kindsssss of illegal things in previous interviews. It happens we all agree on that.

Maybe calling someone naive wasn't the nicest thing (but far worse things have been said around here daily),

but to say she's hysterical? lol

[simple_male 1]

my husband is a mechanical engineer and can't get an interview here in america for the life of him! every job he's sent his resume to doesn't call back. i think just taking any job, going to more school, then looking again after might give him a better chance.

a friend of mine from morocco who moved to the US 32 years ago (things are different now, i know) went to school starting at high school even was a college graduate from morocco....and now he's the vice president of a bank (making bank!lol) so it can happen. i suggest putting all your husbands back in school here and see what happens!

Yes, taking a job and going to school really does help as I have seen it with my own eyes. Yes, I also know a man who came here about 34 years ago, and he is now the executive of Mutual Banking. There is good opportunity to work upwards, its just now with the economy and the taboo on these men, its harder and the process, all the more headachy for us who only wish to see our husbands satisfied with their work and give them peace of mind.

but they can tell a lot of times by the person's name if they have half a brain!

i had my husband abbreviate his name because his full name is practically impossible to pronounce. he refuses to use another name all together though.

absolutely. as a side note, Simplemale if everyone one did everything they are SUPPOSED to do, like not SUPPOSED to ask/look at religion I wouldn't have even and these concerned women wouldn't have even wasted a breath to respod to this topic.

I never said discrimination does not exist. Again, I know the guideline. An Interviewer is not supposed to ask the job seeker about his religion, race. However, some interviewer might not follow this guideline and of course many job seekers are not aware of this. If one is asked about the race, religion, he/she can simply politely say that he/she prefers not to answer the question. If a job seeker thinks the interviewer is too much concerned about the job seeker's religion, perhaps it is better not to work in that company, if a job offer is made. Sooner or later co-workers, bosses will come to know the religion of the new employee. So the job seeker should make an effort to figure out the company's working environment during the interview and company tour. For your information, sometimes I also interview candidates. It might be easy to find a person's religion by looking at the name, if the name is obvious (mohammad, ahmed, khan, etc). But it is also hard to know a person's religion by looking at the name when the name is not obvious.

Edited April 23, 2008 by simple_male

[sereia 0]

And one more thing... When you submit a resume with ALL previous residences, education, and/or experience listed from countries like Morocco, Pakistan, Iran, Egypt, Jordan, Algeria, etc... they can probably safely assume what religious backgrown a person has also without asking. (obviously not all people from those countries are Muslim but an overwhelming majority is.)

Edited April 23, 2008 by sereia

[Nasturtium 500]

I've been asked all kindsssss of illegal things in previous interviews. It happens we all agree on that.

Heh, I was asked 2 jobs ago if i was pregnant or planned on becoming pregnant because "he didn't want any kids to be getting in the way of my work."

My husband taught at a University in Jordan-- Anthropology. Anyone who deals in academia knows it's really hard for anyone, American or not, to get into. So he's applied but so far we have no hits. He immediately took a job working maintenance at a hotel, then transferred to another one full-time with better pay. He also has a second full-time job now stacking boxes. I knwo it's not what he wanted or dreamed about, but i am proud he was willing to "step down" from his dream to face reality.

[simple_male 1]

And one more thing... When you submit a resume with ALL previous residences, education, and/or experience listed from countries like Morocco, Pakistan, Iran, Egypt, Jordan, Algeria, etc... they can probably safely assume what religious backgrown a person has also without asking. (obviously not all people from those countries are Muslim but an overwhelming majority is.)

Sure! Interviewers can narrow it down from resume too. Even they are not supposed to ask about the marital status. But interviewers sometimes try to find out the job seeker's marital status from their broad conversation without asking the straight question, "are you married?" Sometimes it is helpful to know when it involves relocation issue. But usually the interviewer does not care about to find out the job seeker's religion. I am not saying that all interviewers don't care to know the job seeker's religion.

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

Hubby is studying for the USMLE (United States Medical License Equivalent) which after he passes the second part he can start practicing medicine here for a reduced rate then if he passed all three parts. His sister who is a cardiologist came to the US last year with her Hubby who is an orthopedic surgeon and she passed the first part of the USMLE and has some prospects at various institutions in the US already. So she is working on her paper work to come back here later this year or early next year for one of those prospects.

Since her Husband already did a fellowship at John Hopkins this is a good example for her and Waleed. Waleed is also looking for a fellowship or a clerkship to parley him into a group of professionals to give him some experience and some contacts and possibly start a medical business with them when the time comes. I'm sure we'll be fine but only time will tell.

After he passes the exams and is secured in a good job practicing medicine he says we can start a family.

That would be nice. My husband says something similar, but I think he has about a 5 year time frame for that in his head (bc we have to buy a house first and that's how long it will take to learn english) and I'd be about 30 at that time He talks about buying that house all the time though and I think that's his real marker before having kids, so I'm crossing my fingers and saving my money

Don't want to have them too quick though....I want some more time to enjoy married life without them

We're thinking about that time frame as well. Problem is though I'm not getting younger and there are higher risks of birth defects after 35. We would also like to purchase a house but one step in front of the other.