my wife was deported twice to mexico she as a deport record

[diadromous mermaid 36]

ran down the road under the fence and back to her home and daughter in California

she snuck across but only made it a few feet before she was picked up then she received a 20 year ban

Poor choices

Let's keep this discussion on track and leave armchair judgments for daytime television shows OK?

I think Boiler was well within the realm of being courteous with his reply. Frankly, the OP needs to recognise NOW that his wife made poor choices in the past and there might be a solution, but then again he must prepare for the bitter pill that there's no solution other than to live out the 20 year bar.

I take offense to being told that it is being judgmental to regard an alien that is caught, and deported and incurs a 5 year bar to admission as having exercised poor choices when she chose to remain in the USA for an additional 6 years. That is poor choice to thumb ones nose in the US government's face, and then expect someone to waive the punishment later. The only was the OP is going to find success IS if he facing the cold hard facts and work through the laws to see if there is any relief from the 20 year bar, rather than to find excuses for the choices that were made.

I agree with LadyJane. You just can't judge someone who is in that much pain, and if you do, you don't have to put it in their faces.

It is not easy to think about laws objectively when they separate you from your wife and kids.

This problem that the OP and his wife has been ongoing for 10 years or more, since her first deportation occurred in 1996. While I feel for the OP, trying to change the laws is not the ONLY solution.

[emt103c 10]

She has a twenty year ban and based on the story is not eligible for a waiver for ten years (INA 212a9c). What other solution is there besides law changes or extraordinary measures?

He can move there, but I was only addressing for her to come here. . .

Edited April 26, 2008 by emt103c

[Gaby&Talbert 1]

He could look into living in Juarez and work in El Paso possibly.

Unfortunately if they do pass an immigration reform bill it will still probably not forgive deportations if they are recent. Talk to someone like Laurel Scott and then decide what is best for your family.

[bryan&nicole 0]

I was in the united states last in 04/2003. I was ordered removed because I had no papers. This was only because of my attempted entry in 1996. In 1996 I arrived at the border with proper passport and visa, but based solely on my looks, a officer tore my passport up and through me in jail! Once out, I was faced with the fact, that in California where my husband and my four month old daughter. My husband had no money for day care, or time, or even experience to tend to our baby. I had no money for layers, with fear, anger and indescribable worry about my daughter; as any mother would, I did not think to seek help at the Mexican embassy! I thought only of my daughter, and I went for her! It was the most traumatic experience of my life! I latter retuned to Mexico on my own. In 2003 I was single with two kids, and I made a mistake. Fueled from desperation, and a dream to better my life, I chose to return to the United States, and I regret it! It cost me dearly, I received sever penalties, but I was penalized for something that was not a mistake, something that was not my fault . Mexico would not give me a new passport as they did not believe what had happened, and you could imagine what I thought of American immigration! So in 2003 a combination of being young and ignorant, I tried to return with out papers and I was caught. In 1996 the United States made a mistake, but all they can say now, is their sorry! I have no recourse for that, as immigration law is above the law, it cannot be taken to court! Now I not only pay for my mistakes in 2003, I pay for a mistake the United States made in 1996!

[diadromous mermaid 36]

I was in the united states last in 04/2003. I was ordered removed because I had no papers. This was only because of my attempted entry in 1996. In 1996 I arrived at the border with proper passport and visa, but based solely on my looks, a officer tore my passport up and through me in jail! Once out, I was faced with the fact, that in California where my husband and my four month old daughter. My husband had no money for day care, or time, or even experience to tend to our baby. I had no money for layers, with fear, anger and indescribable worry about my daughter; as any mother would, I did not think to seek help at the Mexican embassy! I thought only of my daughter, and I went for her! It was the most traumatic experience of my life! I latter retuned to Mexico on my own. In 2003 I was single with two kids, and I made a mistake. Fueled from desperation, and a dream to better my life, I chose to return to the United States, and I regret it! It cost me dearly, I received sever penalties, but I was penalized for something that was not a mistake, something that was not my fault . Mexico would not give me a new passport as they did not believe what had happened, and you could imagine what I thought of American immigration! So in 2003 a combination of being young and ignorant, I tried to return with out papers and I was caught. In 1996 the United States made a mistake, but all they can say now, is their sorry! I have no recourse for that, as immigration law is above the law, it cannot be taken to court! Now I not only pay for my mistakes in 2003, I pay for a mistake the United States made in 1996!

While I can *feel* for your dilemma, assigning blame to CBP or the Immigration Service for your situation is not only improper, but will get you nowhere. Every tourist entering this country is presumed to have immigrant intent. That is the law. The fact that you were not able to overcome that is not a fault of the border agents, it is your issue. You had a husband and child in the USA at the time. Entering the country with a tourist visa in hand, yet your immediate family already in California shifts the burden of proof to you to demonstrate that you were not using a visa inappropriately. However, I do wonder if there would not have been a way for you to appeal their actions after you were released and get your documentation back. But, I suppose that is water under the bridge. The problem is that after such an unsuccessfuly attempt, you chose to circumvent the law and enter again in 2003. Once again you were unsuccessful.

Immigration law is not above the law. There are ways and means for aliens to hold the Service to task. I think in view of the fact that the USA is the palce your family chooses to reside, you might wish to change your tune as to how you perceive American immigration law, and the manner in which you allege the United States is inclined to evade facing mistakes made on its part! Good luck.

[Gaby&Talbert 1]

I was in the united states last in 04/2003. I was ordered removed because I had no papers. This was only because of my attempted entry in 1996. In 1996 I arrived at the border with proper passport and visa, but based solely on my looks, a officer tore my passport up and through me in jail! Once out, I was faced with the fact, that in California where my husband and my four month old daughter. My husband had no money for day care, or time, or even experience to tend to our baby. I had no money for layers, with fear, anger and indescribable worry about my daughter; as any mother would, I did not think to seek help at the Mexican embassy! I thought only of my daughter, and I went for her! It was the most traumatic experience of my life! I latter retuned to Mexico on my own. In 2003 I was single with two kids, and I made a mistake. Fueled from desperation, and a dream to better my life, I chose to return to the United States, and I regret it! It cost me dearly, I received sever penalties, but I was penalized for something that was not a mistake, something that was not my fault . Mexico would not give me a new passport as they did not believe what had happened, and you could imagine what I thought of American immigration! So in 2003 a combination of being young and ignorant, I tried to return with out papers and I was caught. In 1996 the United States made a mistake, but all they can say now, is their sorry! I have no recourse for that, as immigration law is above the law, it cannot be taken to court! Now I not only pay for my mistakes in 2003, I pay for a mistake the United States made in 1996!

While I can *feel* for your dilemma, assigning blame to CBP or the Immigration Service for your situation is not only improper, but will get you nowhere. Every tourist entering this country is presumed to have immigrant intent. That is the law. The fact that you were not able to overcome that is not a fault of the border agents, it is your issue. You had a husband and child in the USA at the time. Entering the country with a tourist visa in hand, yet your immediate family already in California shifts the burden of proof to you to demonstrate that you were not using a visa inappropriately. However, I do wonder if there would not have been a way for you to appeal their actions after you were released and get your documentation back. But, I suppose that is water under the bridge. The problem is that after such an unsuccessfuly attempt, you chose to circumvent the law and enter again in 2003. Once again you were unsuccessful.

Immigration law is not above the law. There are ways and means for aliens to hold the Service to task. I think in view of the fact that the USA is the palce your family chooses to reside, you might wish to change your tune as to how you perceive American immigration law, and the manner in which you allege the United States is inclined to evade facing mistakes made on its part! Good luck.

Some CBP officers do think the are above the law because they can get away with crime against people who are not citizens. It happens all the time. The same applies to some ICE officers because they think they can get away with it.

I have seen how differently CBP treat me, a USC, differently.

[Rob & Jin 0]

Sorry to hear about your troubles, all I can suggest is to talk to a very good immigration lawyer.

Sounds like a difficult thing to overcome.

Good luck

[diadromous mermaid 36]

I was in the united states last in 04/2003. I was ordered removed because I had no papers. This was only because of my attempted entry in 1996. In 1996 I arrived at the border with proper passport and visa, but based solely on my looks, a officer tore my passport up and through me in jail! Once out, I was faced with the fact, that in California where my husband and my four month old daughter. My husband had no money for day care, or time, or even experience to tend to our baby. I had no money for layers, with fear, anger and indescribable worry about my daughter; as any mother would, I did not think to seek help at the Mexican embassy! I thought only of my daughter, and I went for her! It was the most traumatic experience of my life! I latter retuned to Mexico on my own. In 2003 I was single with two kids, and I made a mistake. Fueled from desperation, and a dream to better my life, I chose to return to the United States, and I regret it! It cost me dearly, I received sever penalties, but I was penalized for something that was not a mistake, something that was not my fault . Mexico would not give me a new passport as they did not believe what had happened, and you could imagine what I thought of American immigration! So in 2003 a combination of being young and ignorant, I tried to return with out papers and I was caught. In 1996 the United States made a mistake, but all they can say now, is their sorry! I have no recourse for that, as immigration law is above the law, it cannot be taken to court! Now I not only pay for my mistakes in 2003, I pay for a mistake the United States made in 1996!

While I can *feel* for your dilemma, assigning blame to CBP or the Immigration Service for your situation is not only improper, but will get you nowhere. Every tourist entering this country is presumed to have immigrant intent. That is the law. The fact that you were not able to overcome that is not a fault of the border agents, it is your issue. You had a husband and child in the USA at the time. Entering the country with a tourist visa in hand, yet your immediate family already in California shifts the burden of proof to you to demonstrate that you were not using a visa inappropriately. However, I do wonder if there would not have been a way for you to appeal their actions after you were released and get your documentation back. But, I suppose that is water under the bridge. The problem is that after such an unsuccessfuly attempt, you chose to circumvent the law and enter again in 2003. Once again you were unsuccessful.

Immigration law is not above the law. There are ways and means for aliens to hold the Service to task. I think in view of the fact that the USA is the palce your family chooses to reside, you might wish to change your tune as to how you perceive American immigration law, and the manner in which you allege the United States is inclined to evade facing mistakes made on its part! Good luck.

Some CBP officers do think the are above the law because they can get away with crime against people who are not citizens. It happens all the time. The same applies to some ICE officers because they think they can get away with it.

I have seen how differently CBP treat me, a USC, differently.

That might be true occasionally, of course, but in the instant case, (notwithstanding the needless days in jail, mind you) were the CBP agents really all that wrong? They, rightly or wrongly, determined that the OP's wife was/had intentions to remain in the USA beyond the duration of status as indicated in her first visa. In point of fact, the CBP agents were right. For whatever reason, for admirable reasona or not, she chose to break the law and get here at all costs!

[emt103c 10]

That might be true occasionally, of course, but in the instant case, (notwithstanding the needless days in jail, mind you) were the CBP agents really all that wrong? They, rightly or wrongly, determined that the OP's wife was/had intentions to remain in the USA beyond the duration of status as indicated in her first visa. In point of fact, the CBP agents were right. For whatever reason, for admirable reasona or not, she chose to break the law and get here at all costs!

According to the story, the officer claimed it was not she in the passport and ripped it up. . .that is wrong on any level. I do agree with you that she cannot blame the officer for the actions she took afterwards. Those were definitely illegal and she knew it.

Border Patrol DOES believe itself to be above the law, more often than any of us want to believe. I have been in the situation where my husband was denied entry and it was not done according to the border patrols own rules--which were conveniently posted on the wall only to be disregarded by the officer on duty.

The other "above the law" that they are referring to is the fact that there is NO judicial review for that officer's decision. While most CBP officers, I am sure, are extremely level-headed and fair-minded, their decision should not be above judicial review, and neither should that of the consulate. The system is purposefully beaurocratical and difficult to navigate, which is illustrated by the fanatical addiction to reasearch about these laws, that I and other forumers have adopted over the last few years.

There are well educated attorneys, consular officers, USCIS employees, and border patrol agents for whom it is their life's work, and THEY can't all seem to understand it either. I don't think it is fair to assume that someone in a state of emotional crisis--separated from their children, without passport or any means, in their estimation, of legal reprise, to be able to figure out or afford, all of the channels they would have to go through in order to reverse such a decision.

In the end, had it been me, I would have gone the legal route to have my children returned to me, and lived in my home country.

These are just my opinions, not meant to offend anyone.

*steps off soapbox and returns to the work she SHOULD have been doing in the first place*

[bryan&nicole 0]

I was in the united states last in 04/2003. I was ordered removed because I had no papers. This was only because of my attempted entry in 1996. In 1996 I arrived at the border with proper passport and visa, but based solely on my looks, a officer tore my passport up and through me in jail! Once out, I was faced with the fact, that in California where my husband and my four month old daughter. My husband had no money for day care, or time, or even experience to tend to our baby. I had no money for layers, with fear, anger and indescribable worry about my daughter; as any mother would, I did not think to seek help at the Mexican embassy! I thought only of my daughter, and I went for her! It was the most traumatic experience of my life! I latter retuned to Mexico on my own. In 2003 I was single with two kids, and I made a mistake. Fueled from desperation, and a dream to better my life, I chose to return to the United States, and I regret it! It cost me dearly, I received sever penalties, but I was penalized for something that was not a mistake, something that was not my fault . Mexico would not give me a new passport as they did not believe what had happened, and you could imagine what I thought of American immigration! So in 2003 a combination of being young and ignorant, I tried to return with out papers and I was caught. In 1996 the United States made a mistake, but all they can say now, is their sorry! I have no recourse for that, as immigration law is above the law, it cannot be taken to court! Now I not only pay for my mistakes in 2003, I pay for a mistake the United States made in 1996!

While I can *feel* for your dilemma, assigning blame to CBP or the Immigration Service for your situation is not only improper, but will get you nowhere. Every tourist entering this country is presumed to have immigrant intent. That is the law. The fact that you were not able to overcome that is not a fault of the border agents, it is your issue. You had a husband and child in the USA at the time. Entering the country with a tourist visa in hand, yet your immediate family already in California shifts the burden of proof to you to demonstrate that you were not using a visa inappropriately. However, I do wonder if there would not have been a way for you to appeal their actions after you were released and get your documentation back. But, I suppose that is water under the bridge. The problem is that after such an unsuccessfuly attempt, you chose to circumvent the law and enter again in 2003. Once again you were unsuccessful.

Immigration law is not above the law. There are ways and means for aliens to hold the Service to task. I think in view of the fact that the USA is the palce your family chooses to reside, you might wish to change your tune as to how you perceive American immigration law, and the manner in which you allege the United States is inclined to evade facing mistakes made on its part! Good luck.

The Supreme Court has stated that the Bill of Rights

does not apply to immigration cases. So, the right

against self-incrimination does not apply.

In regard to the false imprisonment, while the guard's

behavior may have been inappropriate, there's no false

imprisonment charge as he has the authority to hold

aliens for several months on the allegations he had

against your wife. There is no standard of proof that

he has to meet. His personal suspicion that she was

intending to enter on fraudulent documents was

sufficient. He should not have torn up her Mexican

passport, which is property of the Mexican government.

You have a valid complaint for the destruction of

property.

All of these issues are problems with the law that I

recommend you bring up to your Congressman.

this was sent to me from a very very very highly recommended immigration lawyer frequently referred to or quoted on this website

[bryan&nicole 0]

your “change your tune remark” made me laugh as I recalled a unrelated issue that happened to me this year. I owed some money for my 2005 taxes. So in 2006 I get a letter for a amount I owe, send in a check and pay it done deal right,--- they send the money back, I pay again, the third time they send the money back I get on the phone because buy this time there already sending me penalty notices. I have them launch an investigation that department then sends me papers to sign and tell’s me irregardless of what I receive do not pay anything until investigation is complete! One day I get a notice of levy, so I call in, hey what's going on, they say that they have conducted there investigation and the letter is on it’s way, don't worry! A few days latter I open the letter it says we sent this money back for theses reasons ------- followed buy it was there fault and then they apologize for any inconvenience, but the last sentence is what made me laugh when reading your post "although we regret any inconvenience this matter may of caused you, the penalties accrued are law and can not be removed, you must pay all accrued penalties and interest as we cannot be held accountable or liable for Our mistakes IRS."

I quoted the best I could as I am at home and that letter is hanging framed on the wall were I work and I encourage all to read especially the ones who don’t like my tone at times

[bryan&nicole 0]

That might be true occasionally, of course, but in the instant case, (notwithstanding the needless days in jail, mind you) were the CBP agents really all that wrong? They, rightly or wrongly, determined that the OP's wife was/had intentions to remain in the USA beyond the duration of status as indicated in her first visa. In point of fact, the CBP agents were right. For whatever reason, for admirable reasona or not, she chose to break the law and get here at all costs!

According to the story, the officer claimed it was not she in the passport and ripped it up. . .that is wrong on any level. I do agree with you that she cannot blame the officer for the actions she took afterwards. Those were definitely illegal and she knew it.

Border Patrol DOES believe itself to be above the law, more often than any of us want to believe. I have been in the situation where my husband was denied entry and it was not done according to the border patrols own rules--which were conveniently posted on the wall only to be disregarded by the officer on duty.

The other "above the law" that they are referring to is the fact that there is NO judicial review for that officer's decision. While most CBP officers, I am sure, are extremely level-headed and fair-minded, their decision should not be above judicial review, and neither should that of the consulate. The system is purposefully beaurocratical and difficult to navigate, which is illustrated by the fanatical addiction to reasearch about these laws, that I and other forumers have adopted over the last few years.

There are well educated attorneys, consular officers, USCIS employees, and border patrol agents for whom it is their life's work, and THEY can't all seem to understand it either. I don't think it is fair to assume that someone in a state of emotional crisis--separated from their children, without passport or any means, in their estimation, of legal reprise, to be able to figure out or afford, all of the channels they would have to go through in order to reverse such a decision.

In the end, had it been me, I would have gone the legal route to have my children returned to me, and lived in my home country.

These are just my opinions, not meant to offend anyone.

*steps off soapbox and returns to the work she SHOULD have been doing in the first place*

[bryan&nicole 0]

In the end, had it been me, I would have gone the legal route to have my children returned to me, and lived in my home country.

These are just my opinions, not meant to offend anyone.

*steps off soapbox and returns to the work she SHOULD have been doing in the first place*

hindsight is 20/20

i appreciate your response and you certainly have not offended any one nor am i ever offended by any ones comments i welcome the onions of all and learn something from someone here or there everyday

Edited May 1, 2008 by bryan&nicole

[diadromous mermaid 36]

I was in the united states last in 04/2003. I was ordered removed because I had no papers. This was only because of my attempted entry in 1996. In 1996 I arrived at the border with proper passport and visa, but based solely on my looks, a officer tore my passport up and through me in jail! Once out, I was faced with the fact, that in California where my husband and my four month old daughter. My husband had no money for day care, or time, or even experience to tend to our baby. I had no money for layers, with fear, anger and indescribable worry about my daughter; as any mother would, I did not think to seek help at the Mexican embassy! I thought only of my daughter, and I went for her! It was the most traumatic experience of my life! I latter retuned to Mexico on my own. In 2003 I was single with two kids, and I made a mistake. Fueled from desperation, and a dream to better my life, I chose to return to the United States, and I regret it! It cost me dearly, I received sever penalties, but I was penalized for something that was not a mistake, something that was not my fault . Mexico would not give me a new passport as they did not believe what had happened, and you could imagine what I thought of American immigration! So in 2003 a combination of being young and ignorant, I tried to return with out papers and I was caught. In 1996 the United States made a mistake, but all they can say now, is their sorry! I have no recourse for that, as immigration law is above the law, it cannot be taken to court! Now I not only pay for my mistakes in 2003, I pay for a mistake the United States made in 1996!

While I can *feel* for your dilemma, assigning blame to CBP or the Immigration Service for your situation is not only improper, but will get you nowhere. Every tourist entering this country is presumed to have immigrant intent. That is the law. The fact that you were not able to overcome that is not a fault of the border agents, it is your issue. You had a husband and child in the USA at the time. Entering the country with a tourist visa in hand, yet your immediate family already in California shifts the burden of proof to you to demonstrate that you were not using a visa inappropriately. However, I do wonder if there would not have been a way for you to appeal their actions after you were released and get your documentation back. But, I suppose that is water under the bridge. The problem is that after such an unsuccessfuly attempt, you chose to circumvent the law and enter again in 2003. Once again you were unsuccessful.

Immigration law is not above the law. There are ways and means for aliens to hold the Service to task. I think in view of the fact that the USA is the palce your family chooses to reside, you might wish to change your tune as to how you perceive American immigration law, and the manner in which you allege the United States is inclined to evade facing mistakes made on its part! Good luck.

The Supreme Court has stated that the Bill of Rights

does not apply to immigration cases. So, the right

against self-incrimination does not apply.

In regard to the false imprisonment, while the guard's

behavior may have been inappropriate, there's no false

imprisonment charge as he has the authority to hold

aliens for several months on the allegations he had

against your wife. There is no standard of proof that

he has to meet. His personal suspicion that she was

intending to enter on fraudulent documents was

sufficient. He should not have torn up her Mexican

passport, which is property of the Mexican government.

You have a valid complaint for the destruction of

property.

All of these issues are problems with the law that I

recommend you bring up to your Congressman.

this was sent to me from a very very very highly recommended immigration lawyer frequently referred to or quoted on this website

Isn't this citation from the prominent immigration attorney essentially what I said above? That the incarceration of your wife, as inhospitable as it was, was not outside the realm of a CBP agent's duty? It clearly appears to be a case that the CBP agent had reason to believe that your wife was intending to either misuse the visa she was carrying or the visa itself was not hers.

I agree that an alien cannot plead the Fifth Amendment when encountered by an Immigration Officer, this isn't a matter that demonstrates an alien is stripped of rights that he or she should be entitled to, in my opinion. While we are all aware that the Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination can be taken by the defendant in a criminal case, are you aware of the fact that the Bill of Rights, in particular, the right of the Fifth Amendment against self-incrimination cannot be asserted by that same crimininal when it comes to providing DNA samples?

I agree that she had recourse, still does perhaps, as it applies to her passport, but it is the choice she made thereafter that have caused her more distress. I am only stating this to try to dissipate your sense of distaste for the system. You ahve a right to be angry with the circumstances you face, but not the reasons for those circumstances. The system is certainly not perfect, but the system is in place because there are individuals that take it upon themselves to enter the country without the appropriate documentation. Your wife has reason to be dissapointed at the outcome of her first encounter with our American Immigration representatives, no doubt. As for her second encounter, I think she is paying a handsome price for taking her future into her own hands.

With respect to your comment of hindsight being 20/20, perhaps you might consider that also now, and think of alternatives than to rest on the law accommodating your particular circumstance.

I hope you find a resolution to this that doesn't require a decade or more of separation. If it turns out that her inadmissibility for 10 years is indeed upheld, for the sake of your children, who deserve to be with their mother, perhaps you will consider the option of relocating, if for no other reason than to mitigate the damages already done.

P.S. As to your retelling of the matter that involved the IRS, I believe that this could be fought. There are services available to make an "Offer of Compromise" to the agency, if and when a taxpayer can demonstrate that a penalty and interest have been mounting due to an error made by IRS!

[bryan&nicole 0]

P.S. As to your retelling of the matter that involved the IRS, I believe that this could be fought. There are services available to make an "Offer of Compromise" to the agency, if and when a taxpayer can demonstrate that a penalty and interest have been mounting due to an error made by IRS!

thank you ill look into that tomarrow

ps. I just learned today that I have to nvc numbers one for k3 one for I 130 I called the nvc they said chose the one you want and don't pay the other that said and you obviously being very educated what are your thought on choosing--- copied from another forum...

Which visa do I want I would pay someone to figure that out! as you may know if you read some of my other post, excited as I was, as I figured that my wife would be here in a month or two per my k3 visa I always figured that I would fail the interview but it was the advice of all the people I'm about to mention that I go through the process once denied file 601 hardship and 97% of the time you win it was here only a week ago I learned on visa journey after a 3 year quest seeking help from consulates, senators, governors, immigration lawyers and embassies that my wife will not be able to come here at all! I will not be eligible to apply for the 601! my baby boy now 10 month's will have no father unless I move there and I will not be able to return here to my country ever unless I choose for him to be fatherless at some point in time! where I would need to come home and earn an income for a year or two to meet the poverty line restrictions, as living there I would have no income here, I guess, unless some how I got a job at an American company over there which is highly unlikely as I am not a top ceo here, no one here would want to send me there lol, they have plenty of labor there already. since my wife as two deportations and will not legally be able to apply until 2013 I'm told that said dose one of these visas the 130 or the k3 provide a greater chance for a loop hole or a greater chance for a one in million long shot of going through the system and getting passed I will appreciate help in determining the answer to this thank you Bryan