Our Reign of Terror, by the Israeli Army

[mawilson 2,133]

Pot: You're black!

Kettle: No, you're black!

Pot: No, you're black!

Kettle: No, you're black!

Pot: No, you're black!

Kettle: No, you're black!

Pot: No, you're black!

Kettle: No, you're black!

Pot: No, you're black!

Kettle: No, you're black!

Pot: No, you're black!

Kettle: No, you're black!

Pot: No, you're black!

Kettle: No, you're black!

Pot: No, you're black!

Kettle: No, you're black!

Pot: No, you're black!

Kettle: No, you're black!

Pot: No, you're black!

Kettle: No, you're black!

Pot: No, you're black!

Repeat for 60 years...

So Pot started it?

[DeadPoolX 9]

Pot: You're black!

Kettle: No, you're black!

Pot: No, you're black!

Kettle: No, you're black!

Pot: No, you're black!

Kettle: No, you're black!

Pot: No, you're black!

Kettle: No, you're black!

Pot: No, you're black!

Kettle: No, you're black!

Pot: No, you're black!

Kettle: No, you're black!

Pot: No, you're black!

Kettle: No, you're black!

Pot: No, you're black!

Kettle: No, you're black!

Pot: No, you're black!

Kettle: No, you're black!

Pot: No, you're black!

Kettle: No, you're black!

Pot: No, you're black!

Repeat for 60 years...

So Pot started it?

That just proves it. Marijuana is to blame for all of our problems.

[mawilson 2,133]

Wife_of_mahmoud would have you believe that Hamas just want what's best for the people,

and if only Israel withdrew to the 1967 borders, everyone would hold hands and sing "Kumbaya".

And now this just in, courtesy of Jimmy Carter himself:

"Hamas leaders said they would accept a Palestinian state on the 1967 border and the right

of Israel to live as a neighbor, provided the agreement was submitted to the Palestinian people

for overall approval,'' Carter said.

Oops, somebody get Jimmy a better interpreter:

Hamas later said it wouldn't necessarily accept the results of a peace referendum, the

Associated Press reported, and Hamas leader Khalid Mashaal said from Damascus the group

won't recognize Israel.

Mashaal offered Israel a 10-year truce if it withdraws from lands seized in 1967, AP added.

link

A 10-year truce? Really now? That's all that Israel can expect for finally doing what the Palestinians

have been dreaming about for decades? Somebody call the Knesset, it's a deal of a lifetime!

[DeadPoolX 9]

What irks me is that even if Israel suddenly went up in smoke and vanished, and completely ceased to exist, that wouldn't satisfy the extremists. They'd be happy for a little while, but not for long. They'd eventually turn their attention towards North America and Europe. Why? Because like Israel, we're not the way they are. It's sad and certainly not unique to Islamic extremists, but when someone is different, the reaction is usually one of panic, horror and ultimately hatred.

I'm not going to sit here and say that all Muslims are like that. They're not. My opthamologist, for instance, is Muslim and she's a wonderful person -- loves the U.S. (for the most part) and gets along with most people she encounters. In other words, she's like any other American here. She outwardly disagrees with terrorist groups, such as Hamas and other Islamic extremists, if for nother reason, they give Muslims a bad name. She may not agree with everything Israel does either (and neither do I, and I'm Jewish), but she doesn't feel they deserve to be bombed in civilian centers or have rockets blasted at them.

So while perhaps the rank-and-file Muslim has no desire for "Islamic World Conquest" or whatever, many of these extremist groups would like that if at all possible. They want to forcibly convert others to Islam and if they refuse or put up a fight, then they will be killed. Now tell me... if Islam is a religion of peace -- and the Koran teaches such peaceful ideas as well -- how do these militant groups fit in with the original Islamic ideals? As far as I can see, they don't. Then again, I'm not Islamic, so what do I know?

It looks like it's really up to educated Muslims to stop this violent affair. Israel will continue to retaliate as long as it feels it is attacked (wether or not the response given is warranted). Just accept that. The issue here isn't Israel itself, it is containing the extremist factions that make it their mantra to "kill every last Jewish man, woman and child." Once they are dealt with, then perhaps a real peace agreement -- with land for the Palestinians -- can reached. In addition, doing so will show Israel and the world that when peaceful Muslims state that Islam and the Koran were not meant to be used for hate or violence, they were doing more than merely blowing a bunch of hot air at the West.

Edited April 21, 2008 by DeadPoolX

[mawilson 2,133]

It looks like it's really up to educated Muslims to stop this violent affair. Israel will continue to retaliate as long as it feels it is attacked (wether or not the response given is warranted). Just accept that. The issue here isn't Israel itself, it is containing the extremist factions that make it their mantra to "kill every last Jewish man, woman and child." Once they are dealt with, then perhaps a real peace agreement -- with land for the Palalestinians -- can reached. In addition, doing so will show Israel and world that when peaceful Muslims state that Islam and the Koran were not meant to be used for hate or violence, they were doing more than merely blowing a bunch of hot air at the West.

I agree.

I don't believe for a second that Hamas wants to peacefully co-exist with the Jewish state.

It's not about the land, 1967 borders, the right of return or any of that - they made it

perfectly clear today. There is nothing that Israel can do to satisfy Hamas other than die:

Abu Zuhri [a Hamas official in the Gaza Strip] also noted that Hamas, which refuses to

recognise Israel, would regard any future Palestinian state in the occupied West Bank

and the Gaza Strip, territories Israel captured in the 1967 Middle East war, as ”transitional”.

link

Transitional - get it? Any future Palestinian state in the occupied West Bank and the Gaza Strip

is going to be transitional! Until they can regroup, rearm and capture all of Palestine, that is.

They even gave themselves 10 years to accomplish this goal - hence the generous

"10 year truce" offer.

[Risto 0]

I believe that completely. i saw things when i was there i would never forget. How the israeli soliders are to the

Palestinian .I know you have seen alot also going there wife of mahmoud. I went there in 1988 It was bad then now it is worst . I pray for the Palestinian people so much!!!!! This is terrible reading this but its so true.

Yes, I've seen some extremely disturbing things...

But I want to point out that these are *Israeli soldiers* who are speaking out -- and it's because they want the Israeli people to know the reality of what is being done in their name.

The reason the Israeli army is stationed in Hebron is *not* for defense -- it's in order to protect a gang of illegal, extremist Israeli squatters who continue to appropriate Palestinian property, and who conduct a vicious ongoing campaign to harass the residents.

The illegal settlers are one of the main instigating factors in the conflict (and they're not just in Hebron, but in hundreds of settlements all over the West Bank -- about 275,000 of them now, plus another 200,000 living in occupied East Jerusalem, which Israel claims it has "annexed.")

The soldiers know this, and they're sick of having to be part of it.

Why don’t you cry about the “Palestinian territories” East of Jordan river and about the atrocities committed there against the Palestinians?

[simple_male 1]

The middle east

Jewish = .17%

Arab = 99.83%

Enough already. Let the Jews be. Tell the Palestinians to stop supporting Hamas and firing rockets at civilians and watch what happens.

The Israelis pull out of Gaza and the thanks is rocket fire? What an ungrateful bunch of savages terrorists are. Wake up.

where are you going with this? because hamas has fired rockets then the events described by israeli soldiers in hebron are not condemnable? do you condone such behaviour by israeli soldiers and think it is justified? can you address the article wom posted without stinking up the place with the red herring of hamas?

Are you surprised? I am sure, he won't answer you whether or not he condones such behaviors by Israeli soldiers.

Edited April 21, 2008 by simple_male

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

hope if they go after terrorists and leave children alone...jews and palestinians civilians should live in peace together and extremists from both sides should stop their actions: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=95...8yyBA&hl=en

Palestinian Arabs and Jews (and Christians) *DID* live in peace together -- they've lived together peacefully in Hebron (as they did throughout Palestine) for centuries. There were some troubles from various armies passing through from time to time, but the locals got along remarkably well.

Here is a short history of Hebron:

When Spain expelled all of its Jews in 1492, it was the Muslim Ottoman Empire that permitted several groups of Sephardim to settle in Hebron. But they were a very small minority within the general population -- the city remained predominantly Arab, and predominantly Muslim. In 1841, Hebron was home to 1500 Muslim families, 41 Jewish families, and 1 Christian familiy -- a total of 10,000 people.

The "Troubles" began when Zionist Jews from Europe started arriving around the turn of the 20th century with the stated intention of taking all of Palestine from its native inhabitants, by force if necessary, in order to turn it into The Jewish State.

By the 1920s, violence had broken out between the two groups. In 1929, riots spread to Hebron. 67 Jews were massacred by Arabs, and hundreds wounded. Most of the rest were evacuated to Jerusalem by the British.

After Israel invaded and occupied the West Bank in 1967, it began to institute its illegal settlement policy there. A year later, in 1968, a group of Jewish extremists led by Rabbi Moshe Levinger arrived in Hebron, claiming to be "tourists." They booked rooms in a downtown Hebron hotel, and then simply refused to leave.

Now this Levinger guy was a real nutcase who was arrested at least 10 times for attacking Palestinians, including killing one man. You can Google him for more info, but basically he was an extremist Zionist criminal who was also a major proponent of illegal Israeli settlements in the West Bank.

It's important to note that Levinger's group was not in any way related to or affiliated with the original Jewish families who had fled Hebron in the 1930s -- many of Levinger's followers were from Brooklyn, New York. In fact, the original Hebron Jews were opposed to Levinger's acts, and spoke out against him. Their children and their grandchildren (none of whom is a member of the current Hebron settlers) have repeatedly condemned the atrocities carried out by these fanatics.

After a couple of years of skirmishes between Levinger's group and the locals, the Israeli military moved the group to a military post on the outskirts of Hebron called Kiryat Arba. It is now a full-fledged town, housing about 6000 illegal settlers, and guarded by the Israeli army.

In 1979, a group of women and children from Kiryat Arba (led by Levinger's wife) sneaked into a downtown Hebron hospital under cover of night, and pulled the same thing again -- simply refused to leave. Further back and forth violence ensued. After about a year of this, the Israeli government officially recognized this group as another "settlement", which then took over surrounding buildings.

The illegal settlers of Hebron are extremist fanatics. They believe that the West Bank is part of Israel, and that the Arab inhabitants should be driven out. They regularly vandalize and ransack Palestinian shops, homes and fields, cut Palestinians' electricity lines and water pipes, wreck Palestinian cars, even attack Palestinian schoolchildren. Many of them are followers of Meir Kahane and his outlawed Kach terror group. Several of them have murdered Palestinian residents of Hebron, only to be pardoned by the Israeli government.

Gradually, under the protection of Israeli occupation forces, the settler groups expanded their operations to the entire downtown business district of Hebron, forcing Arab shops to close and their owners to leave. Streets and neighborhoods were closed to any Palestinians, except those with a special permit. Gates were installed, and even those with a permit had to wait for soldiers to arrive to open the gates to the streets where their businesses were located. And of course many of their customers were forbidden to enter.

In 1994, Baruch Goldstein, an extremist Kahanist from Kiryat Arba, massacred 30 Palestinians praying inside the Ibrahim Mosque, and wounded 150 more.

Riots immediately followed, leading to the deaths of 25 Palestinians and five Israelis. The Israeli government then slapped a two-week total curfew on the 120,000 Palestinian residents of Hebron, but allowed the (then) 400 Jewish settlers to move freely.

Back and forth violence escalated. The settlers continued to attack Palestinians, while Israeli troops actively protected them.

In 1995, the mayor of Hebron asked the Christian Peacemaker Teams to establish a presence in the city, to help Palestinians cope with the daily oppression of settlers and soldiers.

In 1997, the Israeli government "officially" divided the city into 2 sectors -- H1 (Arab) and H2 (Jewish) -- which was designated for the Jewish settlers living in the city center. (Of course this is the same Israel that said of Jerusalem that "no city should be divided.)

The part designated for Arabs was home to about 120,000 Palestinians. The part designated as Jewish was home to 30,000 Palestinians, along with about 700 Jewish settlers, and contained the main downtown market area. Extensive curfews and other restrictions placed on H2's Palestinian residents, along with the closure of their roads and shops and harrassment by the settlers have greatly reduced the population.

Deserted Palestinian houses are immediately taken over by settlers, who then use the opportunity to torment the next row of Palestinian neighbors. It's slow-motion, unofficial-yet-offically-condoned-and-supported terror and ethnic cleansing.

In short -- the Israeli military is stationed in Hebron simply to protect the settlers, and to enable them to take over Palestinian property, while terrorizing the Palestinian inhabitants into leaving. *This* is what the soldiers in the article are speaking out about.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Some maps that may be helpful in understanding the situation:

How do you feel about Hamas?

How do you feel about Kach ?

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

Hey WOM, when you gonna strap on some explosives to make your point?

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

The middle east

Jewish = .17%

Arab = 99.83%

Enough already. Let the Jews be. Tell the Palestinians to stop supporting Hamas and firing rockets at civilians and watch what happens.

The Israelis pull out of Gaza and the thanks is rocket fire? What an ungrateful bunch of savages terrorists are. Wake up.

where are you going with this? because hamas has fired rockets then the events described by israeli soldiers in hebron are not condemnable? do you condone such behaviour by israeli soldiers and think it is justified? can you address the article wom posted without stinking up the place with the red herring of hamas?

Definitely a

The problems with the settlers in Hebron started some 20 years before there even WAS a Hamas.

[Ban Hammer 13,340]

Hey WOM, when you gonna strap on some explosives to make your point?

[LaL 418]

Hey WOM, when you gonna strap on some explosives to make your point?

Knock it off CM.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Wife_of_mahmoud would have you believe that Hamas just want what's best for the people,

and if only Israel withdrew to the 1967 borders, everyone would hold hands and sing "Kumbaya".

Please, post the quote where I've said that.

If you can't, then you have two choices: either retract your statement, or be forced to accept without protest any unsubstantiated claim I fabricate about you.

And now this just in, courtesy of Jimmy Carter himself:

"Hamas leaders said they would accept a Palestinian state on the 1967 border and the right

of Israel to live as a neighbor, provided the agreement was submitted to the Palestinian people

for overall approval,'' Carter said.

Oops, somebody get Jimmy a better interpreter:

Hamas later said it wouldn't necessarily accept the results of a peace referendum, the

Associated Press reported, and Hamas leader Khalid Mashaal said from Damascus the group

won't recognize Israel.

Mashaal offered Israel a 10-year truce if it withdraws from lands seized in 1967, AP added.

link

A 10-year truce? Really now? That's all that Israel can expect for finally doing what the Palestinians

have been dreaming about for decades? Somebody call the Knesset, it's a deal of a lifetime!

Once again, Hamas has *nothing* to do with the topic -- why don't you post this in one of the Jimmy Carter threads ?

It seems that you really don't want to face the topic here. (If I'm wrong, I invite you to discuss it. In case you forgot -- the topic is Israeli soldiers speaking out about atrocities against Palestinians in Hebron.)

[Amby 490]

Hey WOM, when you gonna strap on some explosives to make your point?

can I get some of that after my bath charles?