Muta marriage in Egypt

[SaadBell 0]

what is Islam it is the religion of peace

Really? Not seeing a whole lot of peace going on here. Just like all religions, this is just my personal belief, so don't jump on me. I just think you are a shining example of why a lot of people who are critial thinkers, have a hard time believing any of this. This is something I think about all the time when I hear anyone tell me they know certain that there is a God.

God did not reward men for being honest, generous and brave, but for the act of faith. Without faith, all the so-called virtues were sins. and the men who practiced these virtues, without faith, deserved to suffer eternal pain.

All of these comforting and reasonable things were taught by the ministers in their pulpits -- by teachers in Sunday schools and by parents at home. The children were victims. They were assaulted in the cradle -- in their mother's arms. Then, the schoolmaster carried on the war against their natural sense, and all the books they read were filled with the same impossible truths. The poor children were helpless. The atmosphere they breathed was filled with lies -- lies that mingled with their blood.

So, they told of a man who compared himself with his dog. "My dog," he said, "just barks and plays -- has all he wants to eat. He never works -- has no trouble about business. In a little while he dies, and that is all. I work with all my strength. I have no time to play. I have trouble every day. In a little while I will die, and then I go to hell. I wish that I had been a dog."

Yet in spite of my surroundings, of my education, I had no love for God. He was so saving of mercy, so extravagant in murder, so anxious to kill, so ready to assassinate, that I hated him with all my heart. At his command, babes were butchered, women violated, and the white hair of trembling age stained with blood. This God visited the people with pestilence -- filled the houses and covered the streets with the dying and the dead -- saw babes starving on the empty breasts of pallid mothers, heard the sobs, saw the tears, the sunken cheeks, the sightless eyes, the new made graves, and remained as pitiless as the pestilence.

This God withheld the rain -- caused the famine, saw the fierce eyes of hunger -- the wasted forms, the white lips, saw mothers eating babes, and remained ferocious as famine.

It seems to me impossible for a civilized man to love or worship, or respect of this God. A really civilized man, a really civilized woman, must hold such a God in abhorrence and contempt.

When I was working in shelters, where were all the Christians and Mulsims? We have to keep kids in shelters, why, cause we have no one to take them in. I also live in the south and the Christians are everywhere here, but funny thing, poverty is everywhere, while these people sit in their churches and judge. It is all big talk, I have met very few people who really live their faith. You would think with all the Christians and Muslims, all saying they love everyone, than why the wars, and why is this world full of hate and death.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

hahahaha typical virtual wife ignorant and just spread wrong information

you know it is waste my time to read your posting and answer it

old mam like you just keep home praying and ask forgivness for what she did allover her life. and after all she still think about her sexual desires and looking for younger strong man to staisfy her

and oh please dont pretend to be angel good muslim while you arenot and show your ugly old face thats all i can say about you . and by sorry i see some new muslim believe her lie about islam it is very sad . but Allah know best

dont you know by marrying non muslim man u admmit shirk and u should say shahada again

i wish you do before you die cause i really wish you die muslim not mushrika .

you need to cease with the personal attacks.

You don't think stating that they are not really married and stating that they only have "fukking papers" is not a personal attack????

You think that telling me my 30 year marriage to a Christian man was haram was not a personal attack?

[sara..... 371]

what is Islam it is the religion of peace

Really? Not seeing a whole lot of peace going on here. Just like all religions, this is just my personal belief, so don't jump on me. I just think you are a shining example of why a lot of people who are critial thinkers, have a hard time believing any of this. This is something I think about all the time when I hear anyone tell me they know certain that there is a God.

God did not reward men for being honest, generous and brave, but for the act of faith. Without faith, all the so-called virtues were sins. and the men who practiced these virtues, without faith, deserved to suffer eternal pain.

All of these comforting and reasonable things were taught by the ministers in their pulpits -- by teachers in Sunday schools and by parents at home. The children were victims. They were assaulted in the cradle -- in their mother's arms. Then, the schoolmaster carried on the war against their natural sense, and all the books they read were filled with the same impossible truths. The poor children were helpless. The atmosphere they breathed was filled with lies -- lies that mingled with their blood.

So, they told of a man who compared himself with his dog. "My dog," he said, "just barks and plays -- has all he wants to eat. He never works -- has no trouble about business. In a little while he dies, and that is all. I work with all my strength. I have no time to play. I have trouble every day. In a little while I will die, and then I go to hell. I wish that I had been a dog."

Yet in spite of my surroundings, of my education, I had no love for God. He was so saving of mercy, so extravagant in murder, so anxious to kill, so ready to assassinate, that I hated him with all my heart. At his command, babes were butchered, women violated, and the white hair of trembling age stained with blood. This God visited the people with pestilence -- filled the houses and covered the streets with the dying and the dead -- saw babes starving on the empty breasts of pallid mothers, heard the sobs, saw the tears, the sunken cheeks, the sightless eyes, the new made graves, and remained as pitiless as the pestilence.

This God withheld the rain -- caused the famine, saw the fierce eyes of hunger -- the wasted forms, the white lips, saw mothers eating babes, and remained ferocious as famine.

It seems to me impossible for a civilized man to love or worship, or respect of this God. A really civilized man, a really civilized woman, must hold such a God in abhorrence and contempt.

When I was working in shelters, where were all the Christians and Mulsims? We have to keep kids in shelters, why, cause we have no one to take them in. I also live in the south and the Christians are everywhere here, but funny thing, poverty is everywhere, while these people sit in their churches and judge. It is all big talk, I have met very few people who really live their faith. You would think with all the Christians and Muslims, all saying they love everyone, than why the wars, and why is this world full of hate and death.

im sorry if anyone thought that i have jumped on them i dont even raise my voice so it must have been something i said that sounded hard.....for that im truly sorry i have never jumped on anyone that i know of and if i have im truly sorry.....i am assuming that the quote about Islam being the religion of peace was from what i wrote so again i am assuming that u think im capable of jumping on u .........im sorry really very very sorry it is not my intent at all

[doodlebugg 10]

hahahaha typical virtual wife ignorant and just spread wrong information

you know it is waste my time to read your posting and answer it

old mam like you just keep home praying and ask forgivness for what she did allover her life. and after all she still think about her sexual desires and looking for younger strong man to staisfy her

and oh please dont pretend to be angel good muslim while you arenot and show your ugly old face thats all i can say about you . and by sorry i see some new muslim believe her lie about islam it is very sad . but Allah know best

dont you know by marrying non muslim man u admmit shirk and u should say shahada again

i wish you do before you die cause i really wish you die muslim not mushrika .

you need to cease with the personal attacks.

You don't think stating that they are not really married and stating that they only have "fukking papers" is not a personal attack????

You think that telling me my 30 year marriage to a Christian man was haram was not a personal attack?

What I think is that you both should stop insulting each other. This whole subject is so very personal and disgusting imho. I'm staying out of it from now on since both me and my husband's blood is boiling over it. Good luck to all.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Islam is a religion of peace, gg. Muslims have to grow into it. Like you, it saddens me to see the nonsense posted in the name of Islam as if God is supplimated to the will of men, and not the other way around.

But progress is a process that takes patience and time, both of which I have in abundance.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

hahahaha typical virtual wife ignorant and just spread wrong information

you know it is waste my time to read your posting and answer it

old mam like you just keep home praying and ask forgivness for what she did allover her life. and after all she still think about her sexual desires and looking for younger strong man to staisfy her

and oh please dont pretend to be angel good muslim while you arenot and show your ugly old face thats all i can say about you . and by sorry i see some new muslim believe her lie about islam it is very sad . but Allah know best

dont you know by marrying non muslim man u admmit shirk and u should say shahada again

i wish you do before you die cause i really wish you die muslim not mushrika .

you need to cease with the personal attacks.

You don't think stating that they are not really married and stating that they only have "fukking papers" is not a personal attack????

You think that telling me my 30 year marriage to a Christian man was haram was not a personal attack?

What I think is that you both should stop insulting each other. This whole subject is so very personal and disgusting imho. I'm staying out of it from now on since both me and my husband's blood is boiling over it. Good luck to all.

I have attacked no one. I have merely corrected incorrect assertions that have been made to appear as though Islam condones them. In this atmosphere of ignorance about Islam, it is not a one time fix.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

im sorry if anyone thought that i have jumped on them i dont even raise my voice so it must have been something i said that sounded hard.....for that im truly sorry i have never jumped on anyone that i know of and if i have im truly sorry.....i am assuming that the quote about Islam being the religion of peace was from what i wrote so again i am assuming that u think im capable of jumping on u .........im sorry really very very sorry it is not my intent at all

It is easy to sound harsh and cold on a message board, even if not intended. Human communication is 80% visual body language, and we lack that here. Because of that, I long ago gave up worrying about how others perceive me here. There is no control over that, it is so subjective.

Edited April 19, 2008 by Virtual wife

[~Jackie~ 30]

[Nasturtium 500]

What do you suppose that movement indicates? I have two pizzas, and you can't have them both?

[SaadBell 0]

I wasn't pointing any fingers at all, and at anyone. I just think it is sad that something that is supposed to be love, always comes around to someone is right and someone is wrong. This is just a forum, and we asks our self’s daily why so much misery in this world? I respect all beliefs, I am more of a, if I can see than it is real. I am like that. This is no way a remark just about Islam, this is all religions, how many of Catholics have died in the name of Jesus in Ireland? Sadly the people believe all this fantasy, but if you really stop, and really think hard, you might start to see some real problems with all religions. The bible itself is full of violence, horrific tortures, I can’t even imagine what it is like to be crucified, but they did that in the day. Just curious, do you believe in evolution or creation? Where do the dinosaurs come in, what was the reason for that, see I am really confused, not trying to be mean, but really why do we have evidence of man being in this world for longer than the religions say? Why would this God create a world of so much pain and misery? If he knows the beginning and end, than when he created this, he knew the outcome, because, God knows everything. Why do this in the first place, if I know my child will drown in the pool I have out in back, I can see the future and can change it, What kind of mother would not save their child from a horrible death, and get rid of the pool? Yet, this so called God created the whole thing, knew the ending, knew that billions would suffer and for eternity, but still he went a head with created this hell. Very hard to swallow this, and why do you worship some super being that would even do that?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

There is also a problem with no religion. Atheists are not free of prejudice either. Thay may not believe in God, but they have beliefs. Since they are not all the same beliefs, they also have conflicts that bring about pain. Absense of faith is no panacea for the ills of the world.

Edited April 19, 2008 by Virtual wife

[peezey 0]

atheist = fornicator

salaam!

[aisha kandisha 0]

Actually, part of that scholarship is a tenet of law known as the asl al deen. It prescribes that what Allah has made halal is halal, what Allah has made haram is haram. That He has been silent about is a blessing to us.

Do you not make distinctions between the divine law of Allah and the interpretations of the text by fallible men that conprises fiqh? Fiqh has trends and has changed over time. This, too, will pass. and there will be those who say it is a good thing to be no longer a burden on women.

Yes, I both make and understand distinctions between Sharia and fiqh, but I also don't believe in advocating for the makruh or committing makruh acts just because no punishment is attached.

No man can truly make impermissible that which Allah did not. It is an opinion, and the early imams expected their rulings to be changed and reevaluated because, they were not God, nor a proper substitute for Him. They made their rulings in consideration of the needs of the society they were addressing, so the rulings would vary, and they did not expect their opinions to be binding on all Muslims for all time.

Of course man cannot make impermissible what God did not, just as man cannot make required of us what God did not.

You see, moral law, fiqh, is not equal to divine law. Your resepect is misplaced when Allah is the final arbitor. Makruh is a mortal determination for a situation that is specific, not general. It could change and that would be that because motals change their minds. Allah didn't allot a punishment for interfaith marriage for Muslimas, as He didn't prohibit it. Muslims, having a need to control their women and limit them to their men, did so in His stead. How does that please God? How does it comfort you to believe that following ijima in a matter that Allah did not legislate is better than following God?

My respect lies with God. Just as there are acts pleasing to God that are not required by us, we can choose to strive to please God by engaging in those acts - nonobligatory fasts, prayers, serving the poor beyond what is required, etc. Likewise, if my understanding is something would be displeasing to God, I can try to avoid that. This isn't misplaced respect, it is about worship. Do we do only that is required and only avoid what is forbidden, or do we strive do honor, show our love and respect for God by going beyond? Again, if we believe something is displeasing to God, do we choose that? And if we do, is that really showing respect/honor/worship?

In the west, women who convert to Islam have been commanded to tear away form the life thy had, a loving husband, divide their little children to "please God" because of the opinion of scholars. In contrast, a husband who converts is allowed to keep secure his non-Muslim wife, doing her no harm, and elevating her status by her assiciation with a Muslim man with no effort of her own.

Are you to accept that the women, by being drawn to Islam, is to be first punished by having to leave her home nd her non-Muslim husband, even if he is fine with her conversion? Are you ok with how her first act is to create acrimony in her life and between the people who love her as her introduction to the faith? How is the stark contrast between what happens to a married non-Muslim woman who accepts Islam and a married non-Muslim man who accepts Islam grab you? Does the diversity in their treatment repulse you, or do you merely shrug your shoulders and say, well, it is ijima, a product of centuries of scholarship. It is ok with me?

The reason why there is an allowance for the needs of society in fiqh rulings is because of the diversity between societies. Is it makruh to use Islam to bring non-Muslim men to understanding rather than bitterness when his wife converts? Is it mahruh to make Muslim women who fall in love with a non-Muslim Muslim man in the west pariahs, even as we congratulate Muslim men who do the same with a non-Muslim woman?

Islam is a rational faith. It is not mena to be bound by jahilyya traditions and the notion that Muslims are superior to non-Muslims, Arabs are superior to Arabs, and men are superior to women. A permission for men does not create a prohibition for women. That is not so in any other ayah addressed to men, but also held to be binding on women. In fact, it is a commonality in Islamic law that what the Quran says is binding on all Muslims, and the Quran is mostly addressed to men, but that is only reflective of the gender norms of the Arab pennisula at the time, not a obligation of the Message for all time.

I have no issue with Muslim women marrying non-Muslim men. I don't think there is evidence to declare this an impermissible act. I also thinking seeking out a Christian husband (if one accepts such marriage as makruh and as you stated it was) is quite different than a woman converting and then dealing with a marriage and likely children that already exist, and this is why it is so important that Islam and fiqh rulings are not static, and things can vary even within a time/region. A respectful Christian man can be a better husband more supportive of a woman's faith than plenty of Muslims.

That said, when something is determined as makruh for our time/place, and after thoughtful examination we agree with such determination, I see no point in purposely engaging in it. It has nothing to do with misplaced respect. I personally don't think that our lives should be simply an avoidance of the haram and fulfilling of only the obligatory. As you know, an act being halal doesn't make it desired. Rulings on illicit drug use are made through qiyas and therefore are not divine, but it doesn't take a 3-digit IQ to realize that shooting up wouldn't be pleasing to God.

It is good that you are thinking, but you are still thinking as a novice.

Your mastery of adab is such a shining example for all.

[SaadBell 0]

atheist = fornicator

Another shinning example of the love and caring, doesn't matter I am a decent person, now I am a nothing. WOW

Well it if you look around you, religion isn't doing such a super job, maybe it is time just to accept people for who they are, try to help out a fellow human being, never let people die of hungry. With all the religions in the world and all this big talk of I follow this God, why do we have hungry? If people really believed this, you would think they would be hitting the streets and helping with lost children, hunger, racism, and tons of other problems. Like I said, where is the love and care, why do I have to look at an 8 year child and tell him, I am sorry no one is willing to take you to their home. Talk is cheap, live by example, what really gets my blood hot is all the billions of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ these people rake in, and it is a lot, we build big churches, over the top for something that there is absolutely no evidence. But ask some of these so called religious people to take a trouble teen in to their homes, than the real love comes out, all of a sudden, there are the excuses. Sickens me, I rarely see these so called religious people at the shelters feeding the homeless, or in the streets to give out blankets, where are you? I am not talking about anyone on this forum; I am talking about the people in my city. But they got a new big old church down the road, and it is over the top, must of cost a ton of money, but we at the shelter, have to struggle to find food for people every day. Oh and I have called the local churches before, I won’t even go in that one, some do help, but the majority are too worrying for every ones soul to worry if children go hungry. We also have Muslims here; never saw one of them help, EVER. Every day we beg, ask, plead to get donations, why, we are talking about basic humanity. Where is all the help????????? Why do you call me an atheist, to be honest, I am not sure on anything, but I can tell you now, after this, I am really thinking now.

[~Jackie~ 30]

fornicator?

hi peezy

Edited April 19, 2008 by just_Jackie