Muta marriage in Egypt

[mohamed N melinda 0]

Marriage is NEVER simply an act before God. It is ALWAYS a legal matter, no matter what country's soil is under a couple's feet when they marry.

This is particularly true in Islam. The nikah contract is just that, a legal contract. It is not a sacrament, as in Christianity. There is no "married in God's eyes". It is a social contract whose power lies in its ability to provide protection and enforce responsibilites.

In a paper marriage, none of this exists. The onus is on the parties themselves to be honorable enuf to keep to the contract. If they don't want to, they don't have to.

I think that western women, charmed by the exotic nature of a foreign culture and faith, are easily lead to believe that a nikah is a nikah is a nikah. Certainly, that is not so, and western women, convert or not, imbued in Christian ideology of the sacrement of marriage in their heads, fall all too fast for "marriage in God's eyes", something they are less likely to do with a western man.

So what about countries where the state/govt itself routinely fails to enforce the contract, particularly the rights of women, as is the case in Egypt. The onus still lies with the parties to act nobly. Isn't this an equally problematic issue - registered marriages in places that fail to protect the rights of women.

In the end, if Mohamed is a stand-up man, he likely would do better by Melinda in the event of divorce than she could ever expect with an dishonorable man with a registered marriage.

thanks only Allah know what human intend . u may pray but u wont reward just when u do for Allah sake not cause poele say oh he is religius

[Sofiyya 1,687]

So what about countries where the state/govt itself routinely fails to enforce the contract, particularly the rights of women, as is the case in Egypt. The onus still lies with the parties to act nobly. Isn't this an equally problematic issue - registered marriages in places that fail to protect the rights of women.

A problem such as you describe is not alleviated in the least by claims that a paper marriage is halal. The errosion of women's rights in Muslim countries is symptomized by paper marriages where women are disrespected from the beginnning of the union to the end and beyond. It is admited by the fiqh scholars who support them that they are allowed for the benefit of men, and not to protect women.

In the end, if Mohamed is a stand-up man, he likely would do better by Melinda in the event of divorce than she could ever expect with an dishonorable man with a registered marriage.

You can't get divorced until you are married.

Edited April 20, 2008 by Virtual wife

[mohamed N melinda 0]

are you thinking for more lies dear

we are waiting

[Sofiyya 1,687]

dear we talk here by mind give those poeple excuse for why u married this man.

and why he married you?????

your hubby isnot prophet and your arenot prophet wife so stop it

The Prophet's marriage to Khadija is our example, and a very good one. He married his woman, THEN had kids. You have not. Who is your example?

[mohamed N melinda 0]

answer me virtual wife why u married boy in your grandson age for what i know it is personal stuff but u asked me be4 why i married her

do you think he will keep with you while you are older than his mom and cant give him kids.

i told you you arenot prophet wife and your hubby isnot prophet

so find another excuse thats not working

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Apparently you are so obsessed with kids that you have them out of wedlock. Not everyone is that obsessed

[mohamed N melinda 0]

we talk about nowadays. what make young boy marry woman older than his mom and plz dont tell me love as he can love his mom

and what if he wants kids

when u give us logic magic we will accept it

[Sofiyya 1,687]

What is my age? What is my husband's age?

It's clear you would rather do this than read your Quran.

Give me credit for trying to be intellectual re this topic, peeps, but my debate partner reminds me of the story of the donkey carrying books.

Edited April 20, 2008 by Virtual wife

[mohamed N melinda 0]

come on mam

i asked clear question need ligic answers

so if u dont have answer just say it

dont be shy

Edited April 20, 2008 by mohamed N melinda

[Ihavequestions 419]

So what about countries where the state/govt itself routinely fails to enforce the contract, particularly the rights of women, as is the case in Egypt.

The state/govt of Egypt will, of course, enforce a legal and binding contract. The problem is these contracts are not legal and binding because, in order to be legal in Egypt, the marriage has to be registered with the government. Legal marriages - anywhere - include rights and responsibilities. No court will protect a right or enforce a responsibility that is not legally there to begin with, no matter where we are on the planet. Women who are legally married in Egypt have rights. It is the women who are not legally married who don't.

In the end, if Mohamed is a stand-up man, he likely would do better by Melinda in the event of divorce than she could ever expect with an dishonorable man with a registered marriage.

I agree.

[mohamed N melinda 0]

well now i feel bity for you i am sorry

but you should get lesson from that.

i hope

[Sofiyya 1,687]

come on mam

i asked clear question need ligic answers

so if u dont have answer just say it

dont be shy

I agree, you do need logical answers. Unfortunately, you wouldn't know one if it fell on you.

[brnidokiegurl 0]

Okay. You all are right. Let's remove the names of specific individuals (because that is where the hurting starts) and discuss the issue at hand.

With that, let's look at the following scenario:

Two USCs want to marry. They enter an attorney's office in their hometown and sign a contract that says they agree they are married, in front of two witnesses. They go home, have a little "We agreed we're married!" party with their families and move on with their married life, which eventually includes children.

Some years later, husband has a mid-life crisis, quits his job, buys a red Corvette, and starts dating a woman half his age. The agreed-to marriage is now a train wreck and she's so outta there. The missus wants the children, child support for the children, alimony (spousal support), and half of all of their material possessions - the house, bank account, mini-van, family pets, silverware, all of it. In order to enforce what she believes are her rights as a woman who agreed to be married, she takes her copy of the contract into the courthouse and asks a judge for a divorce and to give her what she believes she is entitled to.

How well do you suppose that "agreement" would hold up in court?

It wouldn't because a signed statement does not make a legal marriage. At best this couple simply "put in writing" they would be living together as if they were married.

At minimum, marriage in the U.S. requires a license (permission) and an officiant to perform a ceremony in which the couple are pronounced man/husband and wife - and that pronouncement is the moment when the couple becomes husband and wife. The marriage must be recorded in the local courthouse where becomes a matter of public record. No matter who performs the ceremony or where it occurs, be it a religious official in a place of worship or a government official in a government building (i.e., court house), every legal marriage in the U.S. contains those same elements: permission, the pronouncement, and a legal record.

Are you with me so far?

I hope so because here lies the problem.

Because there was never a legal marriage, this couple would not end their relationship with divorce. Instead, the wife would go about claiming her rights (custody and, if she's lucky or has a really sympathetic judge, "Pal"-imony) and the rights of her children (child support) by filing a series of law suits. Custody of the children, child support, and "Pal"-imony would be handled in a family court and a civil suit (think: Judge Judy) would have to remedy the rest. And, because, in the U.S., children born of a marriage are legally the husband's children and this is not a legal marriage, this wife is now in the position where she has to establish paternity and the man she agreed she was married to could argue the question right up to the DNA results. What could have been solved with one legal action becomes a series of actions quite quickly, all of which require money to claim as well as defend.

Marriage is NEVER simply an act before God. It is ALWAYS a legal matter, no matter what country's soil is under a couple's feet when they marry.

From the U.S. Embassy (Cairo) Consular Section which is certainly a must-read for every U.S. citizen planning to marry an Egyptian: "The only legal marriage for foreigners in Egypt is a civil ceremony performed at the local marriage court, which is in accordance with Islamic practice. Persons wishing a religious ceremony may arrange for one separately, but it is the civil ceremony that establishes the legal marriage."

"Court." Not an attoney's office. A court. Big difference.

While I can understand there have been problems which prohibited USCs from marrying Egyptians, I cannot understand the belief that, because they couldn't legally do something, convincing themselves they found an alternative legal solution somehow makes it legal when neither individuals or couples make law but only legislators.

(Sorry for the blathering. I'm tired this morning and really wanted to spend some time in this discussion because I do think it's important before the thread locked.)

i had to register our marriage certificate at our okla court house also to change my social security

[Sofiyya 1,687]

well now i feel bity for you i am sorry

but you should get lesson from that.

i hope

Don't feel sorry for me. You behave like a clown, disrespect the Prophet and have not a clue about your faith. And, you're proud of it. Feel sorry for yourself.

[AngelK96 0]

answer me virtual wife why u married boy in your grandson age for what i know it is personal stuff but u asked me be4 why i married her

do you think he will keep with you while you are older than his mom and cant give him kids.

i told you you arenot prophet wife and your hubby isnot prophet

so find another excuse thats not working

I would like to know that answer, but I think I would like to know your opinion instead. We never had a muslim man on here asking these questions. Maybe it will give some future vjer who's older than her husband and filing a k1 through egypt some insight on what they should know.

k, thanks

Angel ( Legally Islamically Married)