Non-Muslims married to Muslim MENA

[Nasturtium 500]

Islam & Christianity (I'm not educated about the Torah) can be simplified together as one as far as the Old Testaments. They are the same religion until the New testament is in Place.

The Torah are the first 5 books of the Christian Bible. The Tanakh is the Old testament in entirety. The Qu'ran is not AT ALL EVEN CLOSE to the same as the Torah or Tanakh. The stories are very changed and there are many additions in the Quran.

[morocco4ever 63]

You are comfortable with the way you were married and you do not have to defend it to me. But, I think the question with these "Islamic" marriages is whether the contract is enforcable. If the judge will not register it (for whatever reason--we can all agree that he should, but if he will not...) then how is the contract enforced? Because if the contract cannot be enforced then her rights are not protected. And, I do not fault anyone for pointing that out to people. Women should know their rights--for themselves and their children--and if they choose to overlook them, they should do so with knowledge of what it means.

There is a difference between saying "this is alright with me" and "this is alright according to Islam." Those two approaches require very different justifications and I think they are often confused in discussion here.

in Egypt the problem is not that the Islamic marraige is not able to be registered in the court ..........unless ur from the USA.....if ur from most other countries their embassy will give the paper that the court ask for to be able to register ur marraige......if ur both Egyptian no problem registering the marraige.......its that the USA embassy will not give the paper giving permission for the USA person to marry the Egyptian so the court refuses to register it so that it can then be documented at the USA embassy but for all other purposes as in are the womens martial rights protected if something should happen between the Egyptian and the non Egyptian yes they are because the court recognizes the wedding it just can not register it with out the approval of the embassy

What is this paper from the embassy? Is it simply giving permission to marry, or is it similar to what Morocco requested. I had to go to the consulate to get a paper that states that I was single and eligible to marry.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

You are comfortable with the way you were married and you do not have to defend it to me. But, I think the question with these "Islamic" marriages is whether the contract is enforcable. If the judge will not register it (for whatever reason--we can all agree that he should, but if he will not...) then how is the contract enforced? Because if the contract cannot be enforced then her rights are not protected. And, I do not fault anyone for pointing that out to people. Women should know their rights--for themselves and their children--and if they choose to overlook them, they should do so with knowledge of what it means.

There is a difference between saying "this is alright with me" and "this is alright according to Islam." Those two approaches require very different justifications and I think they are often confused in discussion here.

in Egypt the problem is not that the Islamic marraige is not able to be registered in the court ..........unless ur from the USA.....if ur from most other countries their embassy will give the paper that the court ask for to be able to register ur marraige......if ur both Egyptian no problem registering the marraige.......its that the USA embassy will not give the paper giving permission for the USA person to marry the Egyptian so the court refuses to register it so that it can then be documented at the USA embassy but for all other purposes as in are the womens martial rights protected if something should happen between the Egyptian and the non Egyptian yes they are because the court recognizes the wedding it just can not register it with out the approval of the embassy

What is this paper from the embassy? Is it simply giving permission to marry, or is it similar to what Morocco requested. I had to go to the consulate to get a paper that states that I was single and eligible to marry.

last year the Egyptian government started requiring a paper for NON EGYPTIANS to marry. The American Embassy would not issue this particular paper to prospective couples. Morocco accepts the US non encumbrance letter as does the Tunisians. Egypt was not. This made it next to impossible to Egyptians to easily marry their non Egyptian spouses. This is the point that infuriates me to no end.. People judging these people when they could not get permission to marry.

These marriages are NOT the same as MUTA at all , the type of marriages you have seen with Iraqi shias...

[jpaula 20]

I speak here of marriage in general, not only of yours, but it does bring up important points.

My point is that for this discussion it does not matter why the judge will not register it. What matters is whether you can be married in the eyes of the political authority under which you live and that is responsible for enforcing laws--in this case Egypt and the US. The US, it seems, does not recognize it as a legally binding marriage. Does Egypt? What is the difference between it being recognized by the court and it being registered by the judge (who is, I persume, an agent of the court)? Could you take a marriage contract that was not registered and use it to obtain inheritence rights in the case of the death of a spouse? Is a child born of this marriage considered legitimate under Egyptian law? Is the father held to his parental responsibilities?

I really do encourage people to go back and read the threads where this was discussed and to try to do so without defensiveness, but with an attempt to understand what the arguements are. I think they are importnat and it is unfortunate that they are often burried under shouting, name calling and chest pounding.

[Nasturtium 500]

I understand, if there is a such new thread it'd be interesting to read. This is my last post on this subject since it's off topic but I really didn't want to start a new post. I think we are not on the same track because I am referring biblically. Correct me if I'm wrong but I see only Years from 1800-1900's and there after. Muslims Christians Jews yes we were and still are all Brothers/Sisters. I am Christian and my views are based on the bible I think that's why we are departing from views. Quick note of my thoughts - Abraham 2 sons Ishmael (muslim) Isaac (Jew) From Abraham's Land of Canaan given by God to Isaac to his son Jacob which was Israel. Palestine wasn't known at that time. So Land of Canaan aka Promised Land= Given to Israel God defines the borders but I nor any other in this life can Compare to God's wisdom and works. I'm not trying to conform you into my view but I am informing you what I strictly believe.

That is not a Biblically-based view. A Biblically based view would be that Abraham had 2 sons-- Ishmael and Isaac. Isaac came to know the G-d of his father, and Ishmael did not. There are no Muslims in the Bible. The "promised land" is a concept promised to Abraham but not given to him-- it was a concept that was carried out through Moses, although Moses only viewed it and was not allowed to enter it. Joshua was that leader. Ishmael did not inherit, but the blessing was given to Isaac. Ishmael had 12 sons and died at 137 and lived in the desert and was a strong man.. but little is really said about him. He is not listed as being the father of the Arabs, although just by default he would have some involvement in some of the lineages around the area. He would not be the sole father of the Arabs if you were to take a Biblical point of view of who the people are, and likely would have little to no involvement with the lineages of the Arabian penninsula unless there was some kind of major post-biblical migration.

[desert_fox 32]

Meanwhile while all the idiots debate over their religion....anyone want to fornicate????

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Meanwhile while all the idiots debate over their religion....anyone want to fornicate????

[sara..... 371]

Meanwhile while all the idiots debate over their religion....anyone want to fornicate????

[Nagishkaw 510]

Meanwhile while all the idiots debate over their religion....anyone want to fornicate????

Certainly not with you.

[mohamed N melinda 0]

I am curious. I had mentioned in a previous post that my friend told me that she had this kind of marriage, and that they set an actual time for the marriage (i.e. 2 years, 10 years, 100 years, whatever). Is this true?

Please keep in mind, I am not judging your marriage at all. I really am curious.

the marriage u talk about called MUTA marriage and sunni muslims dont accept it as it consider excuse to have sex with someone to period of time .

Meanwhile while all the idiots debate over their religion....anyone want to fornicate????

you are the only rude idiot here

Edited April 18, 2008 by mohamed N melinda

[brnidokiegurl 0]

no name calling unless u want it closed, there has already been a warning

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

no name calling unless u want it closed, there has already been a warning

*This* was the name-calling:

Meanwhile while all the idiots debate over their religion....anyone want to fornicate????

I think the replies were appropriate.

[mohamed N melinda 0]

no he can call name but we as muslims arab cant lol

[desert_fox 32]

Meanwhile while all the idiots debate over their religion....anyone want to fornicate????

I think the replies were appropriate.

But I didnt take them as a definite NO...just playing hard to get.

[aisha kandisha 0]

I speak here of marriage in general, not only of yours, but it does bring up important points.

My point is that for this discussion it does not matter why the judge will not register it. What matters is whether you can be married in the eyes of the political authority under which you live and that is responsible for enforcing laws--in this case Egypt and the US. The US, it seems, does not recognize it as a legally binding marriage. Does Egypt? What is the difference between it being recognized by the court and it being registered by the judge (who is, I persume, an agent of the court)? Could you take a marriage contract that was not registered and use it to obtain inheritence rights in the case of the death of a spouse? Is a child born of this marriage considered legitimate under Egyptian law? Is the father held to his parental responsibilities?

I really do encourage people to go back and read the threads where this was discussed and to try to do so without defensiveness, but with an attempt to understand what the arguements are. I think they are importnat and it is unfortunate that they are often burried under shouting, name calling and chest pounding.

The Egyptian government routinely fails to protect the rights of women in matters and fails to enforce the responsibilities of men (i.e. - support). Men can divorce their wives without even going through a court process. Women who seek divorce without their husband's consent give up all their rights. These issues raise questions about registered marriages as well.

Egypt gives no rights to Christians for inheritance from Muslim spouses, and this is something else to be considered.