Non-Muslims married to Muslim MENA

[brnidokiegurl 0]

for what she did ( marry non muslim men) (pretty sure he is muslim as is she)

[mohamed N melinda 0]

for what she did ( marry non muslim men) (pretty sure he is muslim as is she)

no brindokiegurl u seem you didnot pay attention . virtual wife had non muslim husband before that why she defend like that intstead she addmit that was wrong

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

To this non-Muslim, the biggest problem with Islam as practiced today is the watering down of what is an intellectually rigorous religion and the lack of personal responsibility that accompanies this. Had I dedicted my life to studying my own religion and then watched it become the sloppy recitation of either husbands or online "scholars" that is often presented here (and, in my exererience, elsewhere as well), I would be raging mad and I would stand up to it. The fact remains that no one here except VW has explained their own beliefs with any kind of Quranic backing nor with their own reasoning. Agree or disagree, but do so with some original thought and without resorting to personal attacks. Or, we should just move on as the discussion will lead no where.

I have to differ with you on this one. Explaining your beliefs with koranic verses and attacking young families is another thing. She went onto a thread ( completely unrelated ) like a happy he is coming thread weeks ago and started telling the two of them that they werent married. She has also gone out of her way to incite several people on the boards.

Lots of people are scholars of this thing and the other , including ISLAM. I am sure the 9 11 hijackers studied ISLAM in depth but that doesnt mean they did the right thing in their interpretation of religion. I am sorry JP, what VW has done to the young couples on this board is nothing short of heinous. Its heinous to attack them for trying to get married and be a family when she herself never had to deal with the Egyptian system. Its heinous for her to continue pounding on them. Frankly, right or not and I am not saying she is not right in her interpretation of Islam or how it should be practiced, somethings are in poor taste. The young couples that married "islamically" because they tried to marry the other way and couldnt had good intentions. I am absolutely sure that no scholar in Egypt or Imam would fault them because they were unable to get the proper paperwork to get married and they have every INTENTION of doing the right thing. Intention is ALWAYS the most important thing. When you pray you have to have an intention. You have to clean your heart and offer submission to God. These couples beyond a doubt did that. VW can throw out every arguement in the world but the fact remains. Her lectures are more to prove she is RIGHT and not offer advice , help or compassion. Lots of very bad people are RIGHT. Its simply heinous to do what she has done in insinuating the children of these relationships are bastards and that the muslim husbands did not do everything in their power to marry correctly and marry with love and good intentions.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

for what she did ( marry non muslim men) (pretty sure he is muslim as is she)

no brindokiegurl u seem you didnot pay attention . virtual wife had non muslim husband before that why she defend like that intstead she addmit that was wrong

You live in Egypt right? Would your local scholar find fault in what you did or say you were a bad person because of the way you got married? If you explained all your circumstances to a local imam or scholar and that you could not easily get papers from the American Embassy to get married, would anyone fault you for marrying like you did to be able to be halal and good with each other?

I don't think so. You are in EGYPT right down the street from Al Azar University. Don't worry what some moron tells you. Talk to people where you live. I am sure without a shadow of a doubt that NO IMAM WOULD FAULT YOU FOR ANYTHING

Best of luck with your wife and baby

[brnidokiegurl 0]

Best advice ive heard....and we can each decide who that is....best of luck to ALL

Don't worry what some moron tells you.

[jpaula 20]

VW can speak quite well for herself, but I have read these threads over and over and I see it totally differently. She is not attacking anyone for getting married in whatever way they did. She is contesting the insistance that all that is required for a marriage to be Islamic is for it to take place in a mosque with two witnesses. She is insiting on the legal protections required and is frustrated that women are being talked out of these protections. She has outlined over and over what is required for an Islamic marriage and why. No one ever refutes this in an intelligent way. Saying it is hard, even impossible, to get married in Egypt does nothing to refute what she claims is required for a marriage to be Islamic. If people disagree they are welcome to ignore her, not care what she says. Or they can explain why they believe otherwise. But, that is not what happens. Instead, we get cut and paste and personal attacks. What is a shame to me is that there can be no intelligent debate or discussion.

[sarahaziz 0]

Yes I agree I don't think VW meant anything nasty to anyone. I think some misunderstood and took it in a negative light. Just misunderstanding

[brnidokiegurl 0]

VW can speak quite well for herself, but I have read these threads over and over and I see it totally differently. She is not attacking anyone for getting married in whatever way they did. She is contesting the insistance that all that is required for a marriage to be Islamic is for it to take place in a mosque with two witnesses. She is insiting on the legal protections required and is frustrated that women are being talked out of these protections. She has outlined over and over what is required for an Islamic marriage and why. No one ever refutes this in an intelligent way. Saying it is hard, even impossible, to get married in Egypt does nothing to refute what she claims is required for a marriage to be Islamic. If people disagree they are welcome to ignore her, not care what she says. Or they can explain why they believe otherwise. But, that is not what happens. Instead, we get cut and paste and personal attacks. What is a shame to me is that there can be no intelligent debate or discussion.

this was my point, not against her

[Nagishkaw 510]

So much talk. So many words. So many pages. That is all I have to say here.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

VW can speak quite well for herself, but I have read these threads over and over and I see it totally differently. She is not attacking anyone for getting married in whatever way they did. She is contesting the insistance that all that is required for a marriage to be Islamic is for it to take place in a mosque with two witnesses. She is insiting on the legal protections required and is frustrated that women are being talked out of these protections. She has outlined over and over what is required for an Islamic marriage and why. No one ever refutes this in an intelligent way. Saying it is hard, even impossible, to get married in Egypt does nothing to refute what she claims is required for a marriage to be Islamic. If people disagree they are welcome to ignore her, not care what she says. Or they can explain why they believe otherwise. But, that is not what happens. Instead, we get cut and paste and personal attacks. What is a shame to me is that there can be no intelligent debate or discussion.

What I find reprehensible is the legalism and lack of compassion for these young couples. Unless someone has led a stellar life with no mistakes which I sincerely doubt anyone here has, no one has the right to judge another. I would like to hear the opinion of someone actually from there that is an imam on this subject and what they think. I doubt that they would condemn these young couples and say they were not married. This is absolute bunk as far as I am concerned.

[mohamed N melinda 0]

for what she did ( marry non muslim men) (pretty sure he is muslim as is she)

no brindokiegurl u seem you didnot pay attention . virtual wife had non muslim husband before that why she defend like that intstead she addmit that was wrong

You live in Egypt right? Would your local scholar find fault in what you did or say you were a bad person because of the way you got married? If you explained all your circumstances to a local imam or scholar and that you could not easily get papers from the American Embassy to get married, would anyone fault you for marrying like you did to be able to be halal and good with each other?

I don't think so. You are in EGYPT right down the street from Al Azar University. Don't worry what some moron tells you. Talk to people where you live. I am sure without a shadow of a doubt that NO IMAM WOULD FAULT YOU FOR ANYTHING

Best of luck with your wife and baby

here in Egypt it is accepted by judge to marry in islmaically way

and i am have no DOUBT that our marriage is legal islmaically and halal and i dont care what vw think she can think what she wants

VW can speak quite well for herself, but I have read these threads over and over and I see it totally differently. She is not attacking anyone for getting married in whatever way they did. She is contesting the insistance that all that is required for a marriage to be Islamic is for it to take place in a mosque with two witnesses. She is insiting on the legal protections required and is frustrated that women are being talked out of these protections. She has outlined over and over what is required for an Islamic marriage and why. No one ever refutes this in an intelligent way. Saying it is hard, even impossible, to get married in Egypt does nothing to refute what she claims is required for a marriage to be Islamic. If people disagree they are welcome to ignore her, not care what she says. Or they can explain why they believe otherwise. But, that is not what happens. Instead, we get cut and paste and personal attacks. What is a shame to me is that there can be no intelligent debate or discussion.

jp islmaic marriage has to have 3 factors

1- acceptance between the couples

2- 2 adult witnesses

3- to be known for all poeple and not secret

if the 3 factors is found then your marriage is legal and Halal and there is no doubt in that and if you see thats not right let me know why and with evidence

thats the islmaically marriage and all muslims know the islamically marriage is more more than important than court marriage

even after we had out contract and went to register it by judge they didnot allow that that was tp protect rights as she saying and yes she have all her rights as flat in her own name, dowery and gold as wedding gift

[jpaula 20]

You are comfortable with the way you were married and you do not have to defend it to me. But, I think the question with these "Islamic" marriages is whether the contract is enforcable. If the judge will not register it (for whatever reason--we can all agree that he should, but if he will not...) then how is the contract enforced? Because if the contract cannot be enforced then her rights are not protected. And, I do not fault anyone for pointing that out to people. Women should know their rights--for themselves and their children--and if they choose to overlook them, they should do so with knowledge of what it means.

There is a difference between saying "this is alright with me" and "this is alright according to Islam." Those two approaches require very different justifications and I think they are often confused in discussion here.

[mohamed N melinda 0]

You are comfortable with the way you were married and you do not have to defend it to me. But, I think the question with these "Islamic" marriages is whether the contract is enforcable. If the judge will not register it (for whatever reason--we can all agree that he should, but if he will not...) then how is the contract enforced? Because if the contract cannot be enforced then her rights are not protected. And, I do not fault anyone for pointing that out to people. Women should know their rights--for themselves and their children--and if they choose to overlook them, they should do so with knowledge of what it means.

There is a difference between saying "this is alright with me" and "this is alright according to Islam." Those two approaches require very different justifications and I think they are often confused in discussion here.

they didnot allow us to register it cause american goverment dont allow it in this time not cause it isnot legal

[morocco4ever 63]

I am curious. I had mentioned in a previous post that my friend told me that she had this kind of marriage, and that they set an actual time for the marriage (i.e. 2 years, 10 years, 100 years, whatever). Is this true?

Please keep in mind, I am not judging your marriage at all. I really am curious.

[sara..... 371]

You are comfortable with the way you were married and you do not have to defend it to me. But, I think the question with these "Islamic" marriages is whether the contract is enforcable. If the judge will not register it (for whatever reason--we can all agree that he should, but if he will not...) then how is the contract enforced? Because if the contract cannot be enforced then her rights are not protected. And, I do not fault anyone for pointing that out to people. Women should know their rights--for themselves and their children--and if they choose to overlook them, they should do so with knowledge of what it means.

There is a difference between saying "this is alright with me" and "this is alright according to Islam." Those two approaches require very different justifications and I think they are often confused in discussion here.

in Egypt the problem is not that the Islamic marraige is not able to be registered in the court ..........unless ur from the USA.....if ur from most other countries their embassy will give the paper that the court ask for to be able to register ur marraige......if ur both Egyptian no problem registering the marraige.......its that the USA embassy will not give the paper giving permission for the USA person to marry the Egyptian so the court refuses to register it so that it can then be documented at the USA embassy but for all other purposes as in are the womens martial rights protected if something should happen between the Egyptian and the non Egyptian yes they are because the court recognizes the wedding it just can not register it with out the approval of the embassy