Non-Muslims married to Muslim MENA

[Nasturtium 500]

Seriously? Again, this is someone else's argument (although giving a source would help us understand exactly who is making it). And, it is a rather strange one. Do you agree with it? Why? Why not? Does it make sense to you that there are sections of the Quran missing/lost? How do we know? How do we decide what we can add to the Quran? How valid are the rather enormous changes made in [brackets]? Are they the word of Allah? What else is missing/lost from the Quran?

Whoa - one suggestion here.

"Adding" to the Quran, or changing (attempting to change) Islam - is like, an ultimate/unforgivable sin - it's called "shirk" - it's looked at as a very, very bad thing....

As far as I know, it's the only religious text that was written down close to the original Prophet's life, and has been preserved in its entirety. Know how there's so-called "sects" - changes - is why they're persecuted. That's one thing that is a major no-can-do.

She is probably referring to the bracketed material in Mohammed's post 147:

("24:2 The fornicatress and the fornicator, flog each of them with a hundred stripes. Let not pity withhold you in their case, in a punishment prescribed by Allah, if you believe in Allah and the Last Day. And let a party of the believers witness their punishment. [This punishment is for unmarried persons guilty of the above crime (illegal sex), but if married persons commit it (illegal sex), the punishment is to stone them to death, according to Allah's law].")

which follows the ayat and then adds its own explanation of what is meant-- although it adds a considerable ammount to that ayat's meaning.

Edited April 17, 2008 by julianna

[Nutty 2]

What about the juice coming out of a steak that is pink???

Is that blood or myogloben???

[jpaula 20]

Thank you julianna,

I was replying to that as well as to the entire cut and paste post regarding the lost stoning passage of the Quran.

[Nasturtium 500]

So basically the above says that Mohammed went against his own words at times and the Qu'ran is missing parts (thus invalidating the idea that it is perfect and complete and unaltered).

who said muhammed went against his own words? there is nothing say he said aginst his own words

and for sure Quran is perfect and complete and unaltered

and cant believe you said that and what make u say that??????????

please respect islam and Quran as muslims respect all religion

you asked me before for evidence that parent are first before wife and i did

please you need to learn about islam and Quran before you talk about it in this rude way

just ask you hubby if quraan is perfect and complete and unaltered

and let me know what he will tell you

Well, FYI, typing in giant bolded letters with a whole bunch of punctuation like question marks means you're mad, and thus being quite disproportionately rude to me. I made a statement based on what you posted-- which I read and perhaps you did not read. I didn't disrespect anything, i was letting you know what exactly you had posted. If you'd like I can repost your post with all the incidences bolded for your reading ease.

Upon the testimony of four witnesses, or if the husband caught his wife in the act, he is to swear "by Allah four times that he is truthful and the fifth that Allah's damnation be brought upon him if he was lying", the adulterer and adulteress are to be punished. It is said that the wife would be given the final word and would acquit herself completely if she takes a counter-oath "swearing four times by Allah that the man is a liar, and the fifth that Allah's damnation be brought upon her if he was truthful". Those who falsely accuse chaste women are to be flogged with 80 stripes (an-Nur 24:4-10). Though adultery is mostly considered a grave sin in Islam, in certain situations Muhammad commanded his followers to commit adultery!

Much controversy has surrounded the source of the punishment for adultery. The penalty prescribed in the Qur'an is 100 stripes (an-Nur 24:2). However, Muslim jurists have made a distinction between pre-marital sex and extra-martial affairs. Some traditions say that the verse is missing from the Qur'an. The sharia rests its authority on the hadiths to prescribe the penalty of stoning for married adulterers.

Umar recalls that Stoning verse was sent down by God as part of Scripture (Qur'an):

* ``Umar in his reign as Caliph recalled that "God sent Muhammad and sent down the Scripture to him. Part of what he sent down was the passage on stoning, we read it, we were taught it, and we heeded it. The apostle stoned and we stoned them after him. I fear that in time to come men will say that they find no mention of stoning in God's book and thereby go astray in neglecting an ordinance which God has sent down. Verily stoning in the book of God is a penalty laid on married men and women who commit adultery."'' (Ibn Ishaq, Sirat Rasulullah, tr. Guillaume, p. 684) (Also, Sahih Bukhari 93.21, Muslim, Hudud 1691, Tirmizi, Hudud 8.1431, Abu Dawud 41.1, Itkan 2.34)

Umar confirm that the Stoning verse was in the Book of God.

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:

..... In the meantime, 'Umar sat on the pulpit and when the callmakers for the prayer had finished their call, 'Umar stood up, and having glorified and praised Allah as He deserved, he said, "Now then, I am going to tell you something which (Allah) has written for me to say. I do not know; perhaps it portends my death, so whoever understands and remembers it, must narrate it to the others wherever his mount takes him, must narrate it to the others wherever his mount takes him, but if somebody is afraid that he does not understand it, then it is unlawful for him to tell lies about me. Allah sent Muhammad with the Truth and revealed the Holy Book to him, and among what Allah revealed, was the Verse of the Rajam, the stoning of married person (male & female) who commits illegal sexual intercourse, and we did recite this Verse and understood and memorized it. Allah's Apostle did carry out the punishment of stoning and so did we after him.

I am afraid that after a long time has passed, somebody will say, 'By Allah, we do not find the Verse of the Rajam in Allah's Book,' and thus they will go astray by leaving an obligation which Allah has revealed. And the punishment of the Rajam is to be inflicted to any married person (male & female), who commits illegal sexual intercourse, if the required evidence is available or there is conception or confession. And then we used to recite among the Verses in Allah's Book: 'O people! Do not claim to be the offspring of other than your fathers, as it is disbelief (unthankfulness) on your part that you claim to be the offspring of other than your real father.' (Sahih Bukhari 8.817)

Similar reports were recorded by Imam Ahmad in part one of his Musnad (in the Musnad of Umar under the caption of the hadith Al-Saqeefah, pages 47 and 55). Ibn Hisham recorded similar things in his Sirah of the Prophet, part 2, page 658 (second printing, 1955).

certain verses were lost, including the Stoning verse,

* ``Again, there is a tradition from A'isha, the propet's wife, that a certain chapter which now consists of 73 verses once contained no less than 200, and that when 'Uthman compiled the Quran the missing verses could not be found. One of them was called the Verse of Stoning, and is said to have contained the order to stone a man or woman who had committed adultery.

It cannot be affirmed with any certainty that this verse ever formed part of the Quran; it is more likely that it was either a genuine hadith of the prophet or very early invention of one of his followers. The fact remains that this verse is said to have been part of the original Qur'an. Many early authorities say so, and what is very significant is that the first Caliphs punished adultery by stoning; this is still the penalty prescribed in Muslim law-books, whereas the Quran (an-Nur 24:2) prescribes a hundred stripes. In this case there is not sufficient evidence in favour of abrogation to claim it as proof, though it remains to be explained why, if the Quranic penalty is scourging the shari'a should decree stoning.'' (Guillaume, Islam, 2nd ed. 1956, pp. 191)

Some Muslims have tried to explain this away by saying that God's book may not necessarily mean the Qur'an, but simply "the ordinance of God". It is not clear, however, whether such usage are common. One need to ask, what other God's book are there, and is everything binding (as in the case of adultery)?

``'Although Zina covers both fornication and adultery, in the opinion of Muslim jurists, the punishment laid down here applies only to unmarried persons. As for married persons, their punishment, according to the sunnah of the Prophet is stoning to death.'

The recorded tradition states:-

Abdullah bin Umar says that a group of Jews came to the Prophet and said, "A man and a woman of our nation have comitted adultery." The Prophet asked them, "What does the Torah says about pelting stones?" They replied, "We humiliate them and give publicly to their evil act and punish them by flogging." Abdullah bin Salam said, "You are telling a lie. Bring the Torah which also ordains pelting stones." So they brought the Torah and one of them having covered his hand the verse relating to the pelting of stones read out the verse preceding it and the verse after it.

Abdullah bin Salam said, "Take off your hand." And the verse about pelting stones was seen clearly. The Jew said, "Abdullah bin Salam is right. The verse about pelting stones is there." Then the Prophet directed that both the committers of adultery be stoned to death and they met their fate. (traditions collected by Muslim and Bukhari) (In Yusuf Ali's commentary no. 2954 on verse an-Nur 24:2)

"Ubadah ibn Samit reported that the Prophet said, "Take orders from me. Yes take from me orders. The Exalted Allah has fixed a procedure for women. If a virgin commits adultery with a bachelor, she should be punished with one hundred flogs and exiled for one year, and if a married man commits adultery with a married woman, then both of them should be punished with one hundred flogs each and both should be stoned to death." (Muslim)

Other hadiths on stoning for adultery, Sahih Bukhari 2.413, Sahih Bukhari 8.819, Sahih Bukhari 8.805, Sahih Bukhari 8.814.

Khalifites believe that the punishment should be whipping, as given in an-Nur 24:1-10, not stoning as prescribed in the hadiths, following that of the Bible.

[Nasturtium 500]

Thank you julianna,

I was replying to that as well as to the entire cut and paste post regarding the lost stoning passage of the Quran.

YW

[mohamed N melinda 0]

ohhhhhhh i didnot read it it was in certain website

for sure thats wrong i think that was from anti-islam website

excuse me as english isnot my mother langugue

[sandinista! 1,816]

What about the juice coming out of a steak that is pink???

Is that blood or myogloben???

water and myoglobin. most muscle is around 75% water.

[Ban Hammer 13,283]

If you believe stoning is inhumane, please sign the petition to stop another senseless murder.

http://www.petitiononline.com/azadizan/petition.html

this petition points to the following:

Hajiyeh Must be Freed Now!

To: khatami@president.ir

Organisation for Women’s Liberation-Iran

2 weeks to the New year!

2 weeks to the end of a woman’s life in Iran!

Hajiyeh Esmaelvand, is a woman who is going to be stoned to death in Iran by the end of December. We can not let this happen. According to the Islamic laws in Iran and the supreme court of the Islamic Republic of Iran she is to be executed by stoning for having sexual relations outside marriage.

Hajiyeh is yet another victim of backward and brutal laws and values of Islam being imposed on millions of people in Iran. How many lives does it take to tell the world that the Islamic government of Iran is violating every human and civil rights known to man? How many people should live in fear before the Iranian government is condemned? How many acts of stoning must be carried out before we can declare the Islamic government of Iran a government not worthy of being? One life, one person, one stoning is too many!

We the undersigned demand that

* stoning and all forms of capital punishment must be banned in Iran.

* Hajiyeh must be freed now.

* We support the efforts of the International Committee against Stoning and the Organisation for Women’s Liberation for ending stoning in Iran. We call upon all to do the same.

-----------------

just one small problem.......it's almost 4 years ago she was killed!

Hajiyeh Esmaelvand was killed in such a manner in December 2004. She was accused of adultery. She is but one victim of this law of the Sharia.

link

[Nagishkaw 510]

Are we there yet?

[SaadBell 0]

It is ok, the petion is still active, so please sign it, we keep doing this to make sure our message gets heard.

[Ban Hammer 13,283]

It is ok, the petion is still active, so please sign it, we keep doing this to make sure our message gets heard.

the petition may be alive, but what's the point when the one the petition is intended to help died over 3 years ago?

[Nagishkaw 510]

[SaadBell 0]

the petition may be alive, but what's the point when the one the petition is intended to help died over 3 years ago?

This continues to be sent to the leader of Iran in protest of their stoning practices, if you don't want to sign than don't.

[sereia 0]

maybe i'm just cynical, but how would a petition signed by a bunch of people make iran change their long time policies? *sigh

[SaadBell 0]

It worked for a women in Nigeria, they were going to stone her to death, she got lucky we have to keep this up. They used the excuse about judges, but they got a lot of pressure over this, and we believe that protesting help in this case.

Mother-of-four Amina Lawal, 30, was told her case will not be heard by the Islamic appeal court until August 27 -- two days after the date set for her execution.

But the court reassured her the execution will not go ahead before the appeal has been heard.

CNN's Jeff Koinange, who was at the court in the northern city of Katsina, said the court had explained the hearing had been postponed because of a shortage of judges.

Four judges were needed to hear the appeal but only two turned up because they were on "national duties," he said.

Lawal, whose life has been on hold for a year, is one of three Nigerians sentenced to be stoned to death for having sex outside marriage due in court this week.

The cases are expected to turn the spotlight back on a bitter battle over Shariah law in Nigeria.

Lawal was convicted and sentenced by an Islamic Shariah court in March last year after giving birth to a baby girl more than nine months after divorcing.

Pregnancy outside marriage constitutes sufficient evidence for a woman to be convicted of adultery according to some Northern Nigerian states that apply strict Shariah law.

An appeals court stayed her execution for two years to allow her to wean her baby.

Koinange says there has been a lot of pressure from around the world for the sentence to be overturned. "People are waiting to see what precedent this sets. The outcome will be crucial for Nigeria," he said.

"The woman's life is on hold. She has no idea what is happening to her, or the impact this case has had."

After the Islamic court, Lawal will have one more chance to appeal -- before Nigeria's Supreme Court.

"The supreme court is not a Shariah court, so if she is unsuccessful before the Islamic appeal court, she may have one more chance," Koinange said.

Human rights group Amnesty International has condemned the sentence and says it is deeply concerned for the physical and psychological wellbeing of Lawal.

The adoption of Shariah law, which punishes theft with the amputation of hands, has stoked violence between Muslims and Christians in Africa's most populous state. More than 3,000 people have been killed.