Non-Muslims married to Muslim MENA

[Aymerlu 3]

Let me answer your question! I would never do that to my husband ever! Yes he is my husband !

The question wasn't "if" you would do that to your husband, I have no doubts that you love him. I was wondering if he condones this type of treatment. Also, according to his post, I was correct that it takes 4 witnesses.

I do have a question however. if he is your husband why are you filing for a K-1 fiance visa?

nevermind

Edited April 17, 2008 by Aymerlu

[Nasturtium 500]

nevermind

I think Rocketta is taking lessons from Bridget as to how to start awesome threads for those of us stuck at work

[brnidokiegurl 0]

And if this is the belief or whomever would they allow that to happen to the aunt, cousin, child etc (possibly a wife/husband) sister in their own family

Edited April 17, 2008 by brnidokiegurl

[Aymerlu 3]

it is passing the time!

[jpaula 20]

Upon the testimony of four witnesses, or if the husband caught his wife in the act, he is to swear "by Allah four times that he is truthful and the fifth that Allah's damnation be brought upon him if he was lying", the adulterer and adulteress are to be punished. It is said that the wife would be given the final word and would acquit herself completely if she takes a counter-oath "swearing four times by Allah that the man is a liar, and the fifth that Allah's damnation be brought upon her if he was truthful". Those who falsely accuse chaste women are to be flogged with 80 stripes (an-Nur 24:4-10). Though adultery is mostly considered a grave sin in Islam, in certain situations Muhammad commanded his followers to commit adultery!

Much controversy has surrounded the source of the punishment for adultery. The penalty prescribed in the Qur'an is 100 stripes (an-Nur 24:2). However, Muslim jurists have made a distinction between pre-marital sex and extra-martial affairs. Some traditions say that the verse is missing from the Qur'an. The sharia rests its authority on the hadiths to prescribe the penalty of stoning for married adulterers.

Umar recalls that Stoning verse was sent down by God as part of Scripture (Qur'an):

* ``Umar in his reign as Caliph recalled that "God sent Muhammad and sent down the Scripture to him. Part of what he sent down was the passage on stoning, we read it, we were taught it, and we heeded it. The apostle stoned and we stoned them after him. I fear that in time to come men will say that they find no mention of stoning in God's book and thereby go astray in neglecting an ordinance which God has sent down. Verily stoning in the book of God is a penalty laid on married men and women who commit adultery."'' (Ibn Ishaq, Sirat Rasulullah, tr. Guillaume, p. 684) (Also, Sahih Bukhari 93.21, Muslim, Hudud 1691, Tirmizi, Hudud 8.1431, Abu Dawud 41.1, Itkan 2.34)

Umar confirm that the Stoning verse was in the Book of God.

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:

..... In the meantime, 'Umar sat on the pulpit and when the callmakers for the prayer had finished their call, 'Umar stood up, and having glorified and praised Allah as He deserved, he said, "Now then, I am going to tell you something which (Allah) has written for me to say. I do not know; perhaps it portends my death, so whoever understands and remembers it, must narrate it to the others wherever his mount takes him, must narrate it to the others wherever his mount takes him, but if somebody is afraid that he does not understand it, then it is unlawful for him to tell lies about me. Allah sent Muhammad with the Truth and revealed the Holy Book to him, and among what Allah revealed, was the Verse of the Rajam, the stoning of married person (male & female) who commits illegal sexual intercourse, and we did recite this Verse and understood and memorized it. Allah's Apostle did carry out the punishment of stoning and so did we after him.

I am afraid that after a long time has passed, somebody will say, 'By Allah, we do not find the Verse of the Rajam in Allah's Book,' and thus they will go astray by leaving an obligation which Allah has revealed. And the punishment of the Rajam is to be inflicted to any married person (male & female), who commits illegal sexual intercourse, if the required evidence is available or there is conception or confession. And then we used to recite among the Verses in Allah's Book: 'O people! Do not claim to be the offspring of other than your fathers, as it is disbelief (unthankfulness) on your part that you claim to be the offspring of other than your real father.' (Sahih Bukhari 8.817)

Similar reports were recorded by Imam Ahmad in part one of his Musnad (in the Musnad of Umar under the caption of the hadith Al-Saqeefah, pages 47 and 55). Ibn Hisham recorded similar things in his Sirah of the Prophet, part 2, page 658 (second printing, 1955).

certain verses were lost, including the Stoning verse,

* ``Again, there is a tradition from A'isha, the propet's wife, that a certain chapter which now consists of 73 verses once contained no less than 200, and that when 'Uthman compiled the Quran the missing verses could not be found. One of them was called the Verse of Stoning, and is said to have contained the order to stone a man or woman who had committed adultery. It cannot be affirmed with any certainty that this verse ever formed part of the Quran; it is more likely that it was either a genuine hadith of the prophet or very early invention of one of his followers. The fact remains that this verse is said to have been part of the original Qur'an. Many early authorities say so, and what is very significant is that the first Caliphs punished adultery by stoning; this is still the penalty prescribed in Muslim law-books, whereas the Quran (an-Nur 24:2) prescribes a hundred stripes. In this case there is not sufficient evidence in favour of abrogation to claim it as proof, though it remains to be explained why, if the Quranic penalty is scourging the shari'a should decree stoning.'' (Guillaume, Islam, 2nd ed. 1956, pp. 191)

Some Muslims have tried to explain this away by saying that God's book may not necessarily mean the Qur'an, but simply "the ordinance of God". It is not clear, however, whether such usage are common. One need to ask, what other God's book are there, and is everything binding (as in the case of adultery)?

``'Although Zina covers both fornication and adultery, in the opinion of Muslim jurists, the punishment laid down here applies only to unmarried persons. As for married persons, their punishment, according to the sunnah of the Prophet is stoning to death.'

The recorded tradition states:-

Abdullah bin Umar says that a group of Jews came to the Prophet and said, "A man and a woman of our nation have comitted adultery." The Prophet asked them, "What does the Torah says about pelting stones?" They replied, "We humiliate them and give publicly to their evil act and punish them by flogging." Abdullah bin Salam said, "You are telling a lie. Bring the Torah which also ordains pelting stones." So they brought the Torah and one of them having covered his hand the verse relating to the pelting of stones read out the verse preceding it and the verse after it.

Abdullah bin Salam said, "Take off your hand." And the verse about pelting stones was seen clearly. The Jew said, "Abdullah bin Salam is right. The verse about pelting stones is there." Then the Prophet directed that both the committers of adultery be stoned to death and they met their fate. (traditions collected by Muslim and Bukhari) (In Yusuf Ali's commentary no. 2954 on verse an-Nur 24:2)

"Ubadah ibn Samit reported that the Prophet said, "Take orders from me. Yes take from me orders. The Exalted Allah has fixed a procedure for women. If a virgin commits adultery with a bachelor, she should be punished with one hundred flogs and exiled for one year, and if a married man commits adultery with a married woman, then both of them should be punished with one hundred flogs each and both should be stoned to death." (Muslim)

Other hadiths on stoning for adultery, Sahih Bukhari 2.413, Sahih Bukhari 8.819, Sahih Bukhari 8.805, Sahih Bukhari 8.814.

Khalifites believe that the punishment should be whipping, as given in an-Nur 24:1-10, not stoning as prescribed in the hadiths, following that of the Bible.

Seriously? Again, this is someone else's argument (although giving a source would help us understand exactly who is making it). And, it is a rather strange one. Do you agree with it? Why? Why not? Does it make sense to you that there are sections of the Quran missing/lost? How do we know? How do we decide what we can add to the Quran? How valid are the rather enormous changes made in [brackets]? Are they the word of Allah? What else is missing/lost from the Quran?

[mohamed N melinda 0]

So basically the above says that Mohammed went against his own words at times and the Qu'ran is missing parts (thus invalidating the idea that it is perfect and complete and unaltered).

who said muhammed went against his own words? there is nothing say he said aginst his own words

and for sure Quran is perfect and complete and unaltered

and cant believe you said that and what make u say that??????????

please respect islam and Quran as muslims respect all religion

you asked me before for evidence that parent are first before wife and i did

please you need to learn about islam and Quran before you talk about it in this rude way

just ask you hubby if quraan is perfect and complete and unaltered

and let me know what he will tell you

[SaadBell 0]

I don't think any punishment in this life can even compare to that which will happen in the hereafter.

I have to ask, what is the punishment in the after-life? I would hate to be scared to death of going to some kind of hell, even if I was a good person, help the poor, and did charity work, but because I don't believe in cruel and usual punshment that I could be thrown into enternal hell. WOW, that is a little bit much???????????????????? So basically you are being good out of fear of punishment, what about just doing the right thing, without fear of a horrible hell? Some call this a Consciences.

[Jenn! 918]

So basically the above says that Mohammed went against his own words at times and the Qu'ran is missing parts (thus invalidating the idea that it is perfect and complete and unaltered).

who said muhammed went against his own words? there is nothing say he said aginst his own words

and for sure Quran is perfect and complete and unaltered

and cant believe you said that and what make u say that??????????

please respect islam and Quran as muslims respect all religion

you asked me before for evidence that parent are first before wife and i did

please you need to learn about islam and Quran before you talk about it in this rude way

just ask you hubby if quraan is perfect and complete and unaltered

and let me know what he will tell you

Are you even reading what you're posting here?

[doodlebugg 10]

Let me answer your question! I would never do that to my husband ever! Yes he is my husband !

The question wasn't "if" you would do that to your husband, I have no doubts that you love him. I was wondering if he condones this type of treatment. Also, according to his post, I was correct that it takes 4 witnesses.

I do have a question however. if he is your husband why are you filing for a K-1 fiance visa?

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...t&p=1764019

[mohamed N melinda 0]

Seriously? Again, this is someone else's argument (although giving a source would help us understand exactly who is making it). And, it is a rather strange one. Do you agree with it? Why? Why not? Does it make sense to you that there are sections of the Quran missing/lost? How do we know? How do we decide what we can add to the Quran? How valid are the rather enormous changes made in [brackets]? Are they the word of Allah? What else is missing/lost from the Quran?

there is nothing missing in Quran. it is Allah words and no one can add or remove any thing from it

it is Allah words and Allah will protect it forever

[jpaula 20]

Seriously? Again, this is someone else's argument (although giving a source would help us understand exactly who is making it). And, it is a rather strange one. Do you agree with it? Why? Why not? Does it make sense to you that there are sections of the Quran missing/lost? How do we know? How do we decide what we can add to the Quran? How valid are the rather enormous changes made in [brackets]? Are they the word of Allah? What else is missing/lost from the Quran?

there is nothing missing in Quran. it is Allah words and no one can add or remove any thing from it

it is Allah words and Allah will protect it forever

I don't think you understand the the "evidence" you are cutting and pasting. And, thus, I do not think it is worth continuing this.

[doodlebugg 10]

I don't think any punishment in this life can even compare to that which will happen in the hereafter.

I have to ask, what is the punishment in the after-life? I would hate to be scared to death of going to some kind of hell, even if I was a good person, help the poor, and did charity work, but because I don't believe in cruel and usual punshment that I could be thrown into enternal hell. WOW, that is a little bit much???????????????????? So basically you are being good out of fear of punishment, what about just doing the right thing, without fear of a horrible hell? Some call this a Consciences.

If hell is there, then it's there whether you believe in it or not. It doesn't really matter what we think of it since we don't have much of a say in it afterall, right? I don't have the source but some have said that the physical punishments that are set out in Islam decrease the time spent in the hellfire, so sure the punishment sounds absurd and inhumane but no one knows what it is crossing off in the afterlife and compared to what is to come if we do such a thing, i.e. adultry, it's probably not half as bad.

I don't do good out of fear of punishment all the time, though it sure is a deterrent to know that if I were to commit adultry that after my flesh is burnt more flesh is grown and burnt again and it continues over and over ad infinitum.

[morocco4ever 63]

So basically the above says that Mohammed went against his own words at times and the Qu'ran is missing parts (thus invalidating the idea that it is perfect and complete and unaltered).

who said muhammed went against his own words? there is nothing say he said aginst his own words

and for sure Quran is perfect and complete and unaltered

and cant believe you said that and what make u say that??????????

please respect islam and Quran as muslims respect all religion

you asked me before for evidence that parent are first before wife and i did

please you need to learn about islam and Quran before you talk about it in this rude way

just ask you hubby if quraan is perfect and complete and unaltered

and let me know what he will tell you

What did she say that was disrespectful? Was it the part that she said that Mohammed went agaisnt his own words at times? That is what it said in what you quoted.

" Though adultery is mostly considered a grave sin in Islam, in certain situations Muhammad commanded his followers to commit adultery! "

If that isn't what your issue is with, can you explain it please?

I don't view her questions as disrespectful, just questioning your source. Knowledge is a good thing, but only if you base it on truth.

[morocco4ever 63]

Let me answer your question! I would never do that to my husband ever! Yes he is my husband !

The question wasn't "if" you would do that to your husband, I have no doubts that you love him. I was wondering if he condones this type of treatment. Also, according to his post, I was correct that it takes 4 witnesses.

I do have a question however. if he is your husband why are you filing for a K-1 fiance visa?

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...t&p=1764019

Okey Dokey, got it.

[Hanna&Mohamed 0]

I think Mohamed has told that enough that we married by our religion ! So we can file for K1 visa. We already have our visa!!!