Universal Health Care

[mawilson 2,133]

But it is a right or we treat as such in that a dying man on the street will never be left to die because of his inability to pay.

There's no such thing as "inability to pay". When the poor dying man recovers, the hospital will stick him with the bill.

[Ban Hammer 13,654]

Been there and done that, also my ex husband was in the military, so I have been a solider and a wife of a naval officer. The health care was at lest free, now, I just don't go to the doctors, the co-payments are very costly. I have stopped a lot drug therapy for my MS, and just pray that I don't get too sick. That is my reality everyday.

the fact remains you had the same opportunity as myself and others to secure your own health care via retirement from military service...

[Empress of Groovy 373]

Oh yea, no one WANTS TO GIVE ME HEALTH INSURANCE.

One thing the government should definitely do is make it illegal for insurance companies

to deny insurance based on pre-existing conditions.

Sweet apostles, Ma Wilson, now you're talking sense!

Well, Agnes - I do believe that the insurance industry needs to be regulated and forced to

provide affordable and available coverage. Beyond that, I agree with GaryC - healthcare

is not a "right". If someone needs insurance, they can buy it. If a person is young and

healthy and doesn't want to spend his or her money on health insurance, it's their right not

to do so, and it's my right not to have to pay for their coverage with my taxes.

I'd be inclined to agree with you if insurance costs were reasonable based on other financial indices, but they clearly aren't. If insurance companies were forced to provide affordable coverage to everyone (and by affordable, I mean a reasonable percentage of a household's income), even the very ill, the system would collapse, and even more insurance companies would go under. Insurance companies are for-profit businesses, which is at the root of the crisis.

This is another topic, but I think that the recent Massachusetts health care legislation is an interesting case. As a Mass. native and proponent of UHC in some form, I've been watching it closely. It's interesting that the legal aspect of it hasn't been given much attention. Basically, everyone in Massachusetts now has to get health insurance or be penalized financially. While I understand what the law is trying to do, where else, and under what other circumstances, is an individual required to buy a product--and a very expensive one at that--from a private, for-profit company? I don't think that people should be forced into this by a state government. It seems like more like caving to insurance interests than helping get people insured.

[Ban Hammer 13,654]

But it is a right or we treat as such in that a dying man on the street will never be left to die because of his inability to pay.

There's no such thing as "inability to pay". When the poor dying man recovers, the hospital will stick him with the bill.

actually, yes there is. if he dies, he's unable to pay

[one...two...tree 2,762]

But it is a right or we treat as such in that a dying man on the street will never be left to die because of his inability to pay.

There's no such thing as "inability to pay". When the poor dying man recovers, the hospital will stick him with the bill.

Exactly my point...and you can't squeeze blood from a turnip, so that means you and me and everyone else with medical insurance will end up paying that man's bill. There's just no getting around paying for everyone's healthcare - it's a question of what kind of care do we want for everyone?

[mawilson 2,133]

I'd be inclined to agree with you if insurance costs were reasonable based on other financial indices, but they clearly aren't. If insurance companies were forced to provide affordable coverage to everyone (and by affordable, I mean a reasonable percentage of a household's income), even the very ill, the system would collapse, and even more insurance companies would go under. Insurance companies are for-profit businesses, which is at the root of the crisis.

Why would they collapse? They don't collapse in other countries that have affordable healthcare.

[SaadBell 0]

I didn't retire from the military, my ex-husband did, and now that we are divorced, my health care is over. What do I do now? So I just don't go to the doctor that much, like the facts state, that is why we die younger than other first world countries.

[mawilson 2,133]

But it is a right or we treat as such in that a dying man on the street will never be left to die because of his inability to pay.

There's no such thing as "inability to pay". When the poor dying man recovers, the hospital will stick him with the bill.

Exactly my point...and you can't squeeze blood from a turnip, so that means you and me and everyone else with medical insurance will end up paying that man's bill. There's just no getting around paying for everyone's healthcare - it's a question of what kind of care do we want for everyone?

Believe me, debt collectors can squeeze a lot of blood from the broke-### turnip.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Universal healthcare will happen in this country...polls have shown that Americans want it. Preventive care for all will be much more affordable and efficient than how we currently handle the uninsured in this country.

But it is a right or we treat as such in that a dying man on the street will never be left to die because of his inability to pay.

There's no such thing as "inability to pay". When the poor dying man recovers, the hospital will stick him with the bill.

Exactly my point...and you can't squeeze blood from a turnip, so that means you and me and everyone else with medical insurance will end up paying that man's bill. There's just no getting around paying for everyone's healthcare - it's a question of what kind of care do we want for everyone?

Believe me, debt collectors can squeeze a lot of blood from the broke-### turnip.

Don't make me cut and paste statistics of how much the uninsured and unpaid medical bills raise our premiums.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

* The fiscal burden of the uninsured on the community negatively impacts the service delivery and capacity of other medical providers. Uncompensated care drives up costs. As a result, providers and insurers shift costs to insured patients by raising charges and premiums.

The fiscal implications to the family were described in a report titled "Paying for Health Care When You're Uninsured: How Much Support Does the Safety Net Offer?" (4)

The authors noted that among individuals who used "safety net providers," 60 percent needed help paying their medical bills and as many as 46 percent reported that they had unpaid bills or were in debt to their provider. To compound this, as many as 50 percent of all personal bankruptcies are related to health care bills. (5)

In contrast, a study by the Kaiser Commission on Medicaid and the Uninsured found that "Better Health would improve annual earnings by about 10-30 percent and would increase educational attainment."

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0843/is_/ai_101937890

[Ban Hammer 13,654]

Don't make me cut and paste statistics of how much the uninsured and unpaid medical bills raise our premiums.

should that be the case, why are you not hot after the deadbeats instead of wanting to punish everyone?

eta: and btw, compare your position on that to illegals receiving health care

Edited April 16, 2008 by charlesandnessa

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Is the health coverage an issue that will affect your vote for a new president? Do you want universal health care?

Yes and yes. The current system has proven to be the least efficient in the world, costing more per capita than any other system while delivering mediocre to poor service on the whole. Don't even try and fix it - we've been doing that dance the past 3-4 decades w/o success. Build a system focused on the health and well being of the people rather than the lining of a few pockets. And cut the fcuking red tape that the private system has created. Any government anywhere in the world is doing a more efficient job of administering health benefits.

[Empress of Groovy 373]

I'd be inclined to agree with you if insurance costs were reasonable based on other financial indices, but they clearly aren't. If insurance companies were forced to provide affordable coverage to everyone (and by affordable, I mean a reasonable percentage of a household's income), even the very ill, the system would collapse, and even more insurance companies would go under. Insurance companies are for-profit businesses, which is at the root of the crisis.

Why would they collapse? They don't collapse in other countries that have affordable healthcare.

If insurance companies were forced to take on sick people who would then turn around and make gigantic claims while paying low (affordable) premiums, this would cut into profits. Many health insurance companies stay profitable by denying coverage to high-risk applicants. In a group plan scenario, economies of scale help pool the risk because healthy people (presumably) are paying into the pool. But outside group plans, the insurers need to pick and choose whom they cover to keep the profit margins high. Someone who pays $3500 a year in premiums but whose claims are $100,000K (not an uncommon scenario for a sick person) is obviously going to be a liability.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Don't make me cut and paste statistics of how much the uninsured and unpaid medical bills raise our premiums.

should that be the case, why are you not hot after the deadbeats instead of wanting to punish everyone?

Why am I not? People should pay if they can...that's not the point. I'm saying that there are people who don't have insurance and don't have the money to pay their medical bills. The medical providers have collectors to go after them, who have legal means to try and get them to pay, but in the end as the sign at the hospital says, they won't turn anyone away because of inability to pay - which is where the problem starts.

Edited April 16, 2008 by Jabberwocky

[mawilson 2,133]

If insurance companies were forced to take on sick people who would then turn around and make gigantic claims while paying low (affordable) premiums, this would cut into profits.

Absolutely. Their astronomical profits will take a hit, their stocks will plummet, but the system won't collapse.