Universal Health Care

[GaryC 7]

We don't want it, simple as that. I don't see any pride in another government take over of our lives. I would see it as a shame and a degrading of our country. Your from another country, we have a different mind-set here. We don't take pride in government, we take pride in individual achievement.

What is this, you elected these people, why would you vote for someone you don’t trust. That is crazy, so you don’t trust the government for health care, but put your life in the hands of insurance companies that are in for profit. I really hope you never have to watch someone die slowly because they are denied treatment. Individual achievement, shame on you, what is that about, don’t care about your neighbor, just step over their body and keep going, too bad for them. If you are hungry, shut up and die already, same with bad health, wow the compassion. I just can’t stand by and watch these rich #### making billions, while some poor normal person, middle class, is denied treatment for profit. That is really scary, and if you think it can’t happen to you than you are living in a dream world. That is why I hope we get some new blood in the white house, this used to be a great country, but I feel we are losing ground. All this talk about long lines, not being able to see a doctor for weeks, guess what, better than never seeing a doctor because you can’t afford it. We have a higher infant mortality rate than CUBA, CUBA, ####### is that. They are very poor, but yet their health care is better than ours. We should be ashamed of our health care, I know I am.

What a load of BS. You have no idea what I am like or what my feeling are about my fellow man. I care very much for my neighbors. Shame on me for advocating individual achievement? That is precisely what has made our country great. Not the government. You willingness to just turn it all over to the government is what will spell the doom of our country. Shame on you for denying your faith in your fellow man. Your doing a great disservice to everyone around you. You really haven't listened to a word I have said have you? I want to reform our present system, not junk it. The free market can work but the government cannot. Your bleeding heart ideas will make things worse, not better. I have faith in men and women, not the government. Your faith in the government is sorely misplaced. You are what is wrong with our country. People that think that the government is the solution to all your problems. People are our greatest asset.

Tell you what, if you think Cuba has such a great system then I invite you to go there.

[GaryC 7]

We don't want it, simple as that. I don't see any pride in another government take over of our lives. I would see it as a shame and a degrading of our country. Your from another country, we have a different mind-set here. We don't take pride in government, we take pride in individual achievement.

This doesn't make any sense to me, you take pride in your country and your flag but not your goverment? It's not like there's a quota on pride, or that by taking pride in what the goverment does you can't also take pride in individual achievements. That whole line of thought is completely barmy.

Good health is not just another commodity like oil and good health isn't something that effects everyone equally - there is only so much personal responsibility can account for when striving to maintain good health - after that it's a matter of what genes you have been dealt and yet private health care takes no account of these inequalities because to attain maximum profit for the shareholders private insurers must take as much money as it can from healthy people while at the same time trying to minimise coverage for those who are unhealthy. I don't see any way of forcing private health insurers to provide fair health care and even if it were possible, those who favour unregulated industry are not going to allow that to happen anyway.

The resistance to universal health care is such an odd thing, the US is the only wealthy, industrialized nation that does not have a universal health care system - but it's not as if the goverment doesn't have health care responsibility. The goverment has to take on some of the highest risk groups of people including the elderly, disabled, military veterans, childern and poor. That has to be the most inefficient way to accomodate health care so it's not surprising that the US has the biggest spend of GDP on health care while at the same time not giving everyone adequate care.

I have great pride in my country. But our country isn't defined by our government but by it's people. I have complete faith in the people but I have very little faith in the government. I don't care who is running the show. The health industry needs reformed. Of that there is no doubt. Handing it over to the government isn't reform, it's destroying it. Make insurance affordable and accountable. Make is something that everyone can get. Then let the free market run it. That is what I want to see. That is what I will try to do with my vote.

[Heracles 417]

We don't want it, simple as that. I don't see any pride in another government take over of our lives. I would see it as a shame and a degrading of our country. Your from another country, we have a different mind-set here. We don't take pride in government, we take pride in individual achievement.

What is this, you elected these people, why would you vote for someone you don’t trust. That is crazy, so you don’t trust the government for health care, but put your life in the hands of insurance companies that are in for profit. I really hope you never have to watch someone die slowly because they are denied treatment. Individual achievement, shame on you, what is that about, don’t care about your neighbor, just step over their body and keep going, too bad for them. If you are hungry, shut up and die already, same with bad health, wow the compassion. I just can’t stand by and watch these rich #### making billions, while some poor normal person, middle class, is denied treatment for profit. That is really scary, and if you think it can’t happen to you than you are living in a dream world. That is why I hope we get some new blood in the white house, this used to be a great country, but I feel we are losing ground. All this talk about long lines, not being able to see a doctor for weeks, guess what, better than never seeing a doctor because you can’t afford it. We have a higher infant mortality rate than CUBA, CUBA, ####### is that. They are very poor, but yet their health care is better than ours. We should be ashamed of our health care, I know I am.

New blood in the white house.... #### sacks man/woman. The whitehouse does not control America. You guys have three levels of government.

Cuba does not have better healthcare. The only issue here is that everyone cannot afford to be covered. Even then, the issue is extremely complicated. The system can be changed and reformed to cover everybody but copying the UHC system of any other nation will not work for America. It needs to design its own system to suite your style of government.

[mawilson 2,133]

Yet, you admit that despite the problems, the armed forces can't be privatised?

Of course the armed forces can be privatized - there are quite a few private military contractors.

Remember Blackwater USA?

How would everyone rate military contractors in terms of financial efficiency and military efficiency? Going well is it?

I think they are pretty efficient, albeit more expensive.

[Heracles 417]

I have great pride in my country. But our country isn't defined by our government but by it's people. I have complete faith in the people but I have very little faith in the government. I don't care who is running the show. The health industry needs reformed. Of that there is no doubt. Handing it over to the government isn't reform, it's destroying it. Make insurance affordable and accountable. Make is something that everyone can get. Then let the free market run it. That is what I want to see. That is what I will try to do with my vote.

I think the attitude towards the government is a big mistake people make here. Why should the government be incompetent? The government should be there to look out for its people. After all that is its job. Public workers should accountable to the government and should be fired when deemed incompetent. When people ask me how do you find the US I always say that in terms of corporations they are on the ball. Yet when it comes to government departments, they are run the same way they were run in the 60's, back in Aus. Government jobs in America remind me of dictatorships / communism. Where once you are in you can do as you please and are almost always guaranteed a job the higher up you are. Fraud and incompetence rarely gets a slap on the wrist. If we fix that attitude and the way the government system is currently run like the country will be a better place. People vote in clowns and then turn around and blame the government for incompetency.

When it comes to free markets, yes they usually work but can fail. Especially when someone corrupt is manipulating it to their advantage. It is almost like a game. Like any game it has to have its rules. The governments job is to ensure these rules are enforced and followed. Leaving it up to the people is not how the free market game works or what it is all about. Free market means you are free to choose what you do as you please. It does not mean the system is free for anyone to work it as they please. Once again, the government's job is to ensure a fair playing field.

Edited April 16, 2008 by Boo-Yah!

[SaadBell 0]

So government can control the military but is incapable of handing health insurance. I am a good American, served in the military, married a military man, he was in the gulf war, I have always been behind America. I gave my time and most of my life to the government, and guess what, THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT THAT. So don't tell me I am the problem with this country, I have done a lot for this country, more than the average American. Yes I have read everything you wrote, you can’t reform a profit making business. It all comes down to these people who run these insurance companies that are making billions, oh yea they will give that up. Greed has screwed up this country, and it continues to take us on the road where we soon will be a third world country. We should be number one on caring for our people, yet we dump them, if you can’t pay or get insurance, you just stay home and die. You have faith in our people, so do I, to get these old rich men out and put some new blood in the congress and senate. I worked hard all of my life, with two incurable illness, and still, don’t go to the doctors, too much money, not enough insurance. So most likely I will die much younger than if I had some good medical care that didn’t cost me an arm and a leg, I once had a medication that cost me 1,200 a month and that was in 1995, can you bet how much it is now. Why, someone who has volunteered herself, her family, has to stay away from doctors and hospitals, because I can’t afford them. Yea great country, when you get old, we just are done with you. These old people who skip meds to get food, should just shut up, and pray that the insurance companies will get a heart. If you think the government is bad, what is your take on the profit monsters insurance companies? Their job is to make a profit, A PROFIT, off sick people, yea that is something to look up to. You can't reform that, maybe we should take the retire military and take away their health insurance, see how that blows over. We can save a ton of money, just let the solider figure out health care on their own, since government and health care should not be together. Sounds like a plan.

[GaryC 7]

I have great pride in my country. But our country isn't defined by our government but by it's people. I have complete faith in the people but I have very little faith in the government. I don't care who is running the show. The health industry needs reformed. Of that there is no doubt. Handing it over to the government isn't reform, it's destroying it. Make insurance affordable and accountable. Make is something that everyone can get. Then let the free market run it. That is what I want to see. That is what I will try to do with my vote.

I think the attitude towards the government is a big mistake people make here. Why should the government be incompetent? The government should be there to look out for its people. After all that is its job. Public workers should accountable to the government and should be fired when deemed incompetent. When people ask me how do you find the US I always say that in terms of corporations they are on the ball. Yet when it comes to government departments, they are run the same way they were run in the 60's, back in Aus. Government jobs in America remind me of dictatorships / communism. Where once you are in you can do as you please and are almost always guaranteed a job the higher you are up. Fraud and incompetence rarely gets a slap on the wrist. Fix that attitude and system up and trust me the country will be a better place. People vote in clowns and then turn around and blame the government for incompetency.

When it comes to free markets, yes they usually work but can fail. Especially when someone corrupt is manipulating it to their advantage. It is almost like a game. Like any game it has to have its rules. The governments job is to ensure these rules are enforced and followed. Leaving it up to the people is not how or what the free market game works. Free market means you are free to choose what you do as you please. It does not mean the system is free for anyone to work it as they please.

Your absolutely correct when you describe the way our government works. By it's very nature it's corrupt and inefficient. I also think the government should be reformed. I would like to see it returned to what is spelled out in the constitution. Nothing less and nothing more.

I do see a big role for the government in our health care. Pass regulations on the insurance companies that make it available to everyone. They should also regulate health costs so insurance companies can offer it at a reasonable cost. They should also reign in malpractice law suits. If a doctor fukcs up then the patient should be compensated. But too many malpractice judgments are awarded to people because medicine is an inexact science and sometime sh!t happens despite the best efforts of the doctor. There is nothing wrong with profit in medicine. There is nothing wrong with profit in insurance. Just make it fair to all. But like anything else in this world it should be something that must be worked for and paid for by the people that get the benefit of it. It shouldn't be a hand out.

[SaadBell 0]

We are owned!!!!!!!!!!

[GaryC 7]

So government can control the military but is incapable of handing health insurance. I am a good American, served in the military, married a military man, he was in the gulf war, I have always been behind America. I gave my time and most of my life to the government, and guess what, THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT THAT. So don't tell me I am the problem with this country, I have done a lot for this country, more than the average American. Yes I have read everything you wrote, you can’t reform a profit making business. It all comes down to these people who run these insurance companies that are making billions, oh yea they will give that up. Greed has screwed up this country, and it continues to take us on the road where we soon will be a third world country. We should be number one on caring for our people, yet we dump them, if you can’t pay or get insurance, you just stay home and die. You have faith in our people, so do I, to get these old rich men out and put some new blood in the congress and senate. I worked hard all of my life, with two incurable illness, and still, don’t go to the doctors, too much money, not enough insurance. So most likely I will die much younger than if I had some good medical care that didn’t cost me an arm and a leg, I once had a medication that cost me 1,200 a month and that was in 1995, can you bet how much it is now. Why, someone who has volunteered herself, her family, has to stay away from doctors and hospitals, because I can’t afford them. Yea great country, when you get old, we just are done with you. These old people who skip meds to get food, should just shut up, and pray that the insurance companies will get a heart. If you think the government is bad, what is your take on the profit monsters insurance companies? Their job is to make a profit, A PROFIT, off sick people, yea that is something to look up to. You can't reform that, maybe we should take the retire military and take away their health insurance, see how that blows over. We can save a ton of money, just let the solider figure out health care on their own, since government and health care should not be together. Sounds like a plan.

Your chart has nothing to do with reality. It is a chart showing GOVERNMENT coverage. Of course it shows the US behind on that because (thank God) we don't have government run health care. You served in the military? Thank you. So did I. You say private insurance can't be reformed? WRONG! It can and it should. What you are advocating is a move to socialism. The government take over of a large segment of the economy. That may fly in other countries but never here. If the reforms I spelled out were instituted you would be able to get insurance. You would get your medicine. And we wouldn't have the government running the show.

Let me ask you, if the insurance and health reforms I speak of were instituted and you were able to get insurance would you quit crying about profit? Or is your beef with the idea of free markets in general?

Face it, UHC will never happen in America. It was shot down in 1996 when Hillary suggested it and it will be shot down again if offered. Reforming the insurance industry and the health industry is the only option.

[Peikko 1,575]

I'm still not getting it. The goverment is people, the elected representatives of 'the people'. Surely if enough voters demand the goverment is efficient, does its job properly and runs the institutions in its care properly then wasteful practices can be reduced/eliminated and the goverment can become more accountable for the institutions and programs that it runs.

I still don't see why the goverment isn't something worth taking pride in. I don't see why it has to be an either or situation, either pride in the individual or pride in the goverment. There is no reason why one cant give the goverment certain responsibilities and duties and take pride in them being carried out efficiently and well and also take pride in individual achievement. I am also not quite sure how corporations work in this taking pride in the individual philosophy.

Also the fact that the goverment is already asked to undertake the care of many of those who are at most risk of health problems has not been addressed. What should be done with these programs? Should they be scrapped? Currently the goverment is being asked to take the hit on these high risk categories without the benefit of sufficient funding. That doesn't make any sense.

I also have to ask why, if free enterprise is the best possible answer to health care (even given all the points I raised regarding inequality of 'good health' and the 'non commodity' nature of 'good health'), has the current system so far failed to provide good care? Is it somehow the fault of goverment? Have the private companies not been given enough freedom to perform?

Finally, given that all other wealthy industrial nations have universal health care, all of which work, some better than others of course, what makes the US so unique, so different (apart from pride in individual achievements) that precludes this solution from being implemented in the US?

The only thing I can come up with is that this notion of personal responsibility has become so far removed from the reality of people's real lives that people see good health simply as a reward for good choices and bad health as a punishment for bad choices which is such a screwed up notion that I can't really believe anyone does think this way.

[sara..... 371]

im one of those that fall into NO HEALTH CARE...........its not easy and its expensive...........at least we live in a small community that will allow me to make payments on anything that is above what i have cash for.........

[Heracles 417]

Your absolutely correct when you describe the way our government works. By it's very nature it's corrupt and inefficient. I also think the government should be reformed. I would like to see it returned to what is spelled out in the constitution. Nothing less and nothing more.

I do see a big role for the government in our health care. Pass regulations on the insurance companies that make it available to everyone. They should also regulate health costs so insurance companies can offer it at a reasonable cost. They should also reign in malpractice law suits. If a doctor fukcs up then the patient should be compensated. But too many malpractice judgments are awarded to people because medicine is an inexact science and sometime sh!t happens despite the best efforts of the doctor. There is nothing wrong with profit in medicine. There is nothing wrong with profit in insurance. Just make it fair to all. But like anything else in this world it should be something that must be worked for and paid for by the people that get the benefit of it. It shouldn't be a hand out.

You brought up a good point there Gary. Malpractice law suits. Why is it nobody ever questions the billions insurance companies, hospitals, doctors and consequently the people have to pay because of this. When you go into surgery, for example, in Australia you know it comes with risk. Therefore unless the doctor is deliberately negligent you cannot simply sue sue sue. Funny how many on the other side of the fence fail to mention this. I think it has something to do with the love for their lawyer buddies. You know, those same people like the ACLU who like to "promote liberties"; yet use the closed doors of a court room to force their agenda on others. People like to bring up other nations health care system. So I wonder, what percentage of medical costs are related to lawsuits in the USA in comparison to everyone else.

I hear a lot of my like-minded republicans say that but I don't buy it. The constitution was setup and based on the 1778. Back when most people produced enough food to feed their family and that is about it. The world has changed 100 fold since then. We need a strong and competent federal government to protect us in 2008. The right to bear arms does not cut it if you had 500 missiles from Iran or China heading here. The key is we need politicians in power who actually care about the country and the people. And politicians who are willing to roll up their sleeves and clean out any incompetent public or private workers dealing with the government.

Edited April 16, 2008 by Boo-Yah!

[SaadBell 0]

You are most likely correct, we will never see UHC, why, GREED. So do we get rid of Medicare, screw the old folks, let them work, and keep their insurance. What happened to this country, where we don’t care about one another? So we should just let the government run the military, and how about privatizing the police force, the fire department? If you get a house fire and you don’t have insurance or enough money to cover the cost of the firemen putting out your fire, than let the home burn to the ground. Or the police, if you don’t pay police insurance, than you get no service like health care. Where does it stop? So give up your health care with the military, you believe that the government doesn’t owe you anything, then don’t take the health care or your retirement check, you want money and health care work for them. Easy to fight for something when you already have it, you are not worried, get stuck in a situation where you have no choices, and face your own morality and maybe you might see things differently.

[Peikko 1,575]

Ah, I do think I have it as far as Gary is concerned - health care should be run for profit because otherwise it's 'socialising' the country and the economy. Personally, I don't have a problem with the idea of something that is fundamentally social in nature, taking care of the sick, being put under the 'socialising' umbrella. It's not like it's dampened the economies of all those wealthy nations that have invested in the health of their people.

Too bad that some people think that socialism in this context is just another word for evil.

[Heracles 417]

It all comes down to these people who run these insurance companies that are making billions, oh yea they will give that up. Greed has screwed up this country, and it continues to take us on the road where we soon will be a third world country. We should be number one on caring for our people, yet we dump them, if you can’t pay or get insurance, you just stay home and die. You have faith in our people, so do I, to get these old rich men out and put some new blood in the congress and senate. I worked hard all of my life, with two incurable illness, and still, don’t go to the doctors, too much money, not enough insurance.

While the insurance industry needs to be reformed they are hardly the blame. What about the billions of dollars paid out to lawyers and lawsuits?? Who do you think ends up paying for this? You guessed it every other American. I bet when it comes to the countries you posted above, it is probably 100 times harder to sue for BS than it is in the United States.

The system does need to be reformed and regulated as it is out of hand. It should first start with abolishing frivolous lawsuits with unlimited payouts.