Debate on Immigration, H-1B Visas

[mawilson 2,133]

I don't see a problem with companies who hire for a position in which they cannot fill with an American with a similar skill set. Unfortunately, I think most of the time it is more about hiring someone with a lower salary.

They can't give them a much lower salary - the Department of Labor (which administers

the H-1B program) requires that an employer pay H-1B workers the same as other

workers with similar skills and qualifications.

Foreigners on H-1B visas do earn 10-25% less on average than American workers with

similar jobs simply because the Department of Labor salary data is inaccurate (or lags

behind inflation.)

[William33 110]

Bottom line, most countries that hire expatriates (international speak for foreign workers), have an expectation that the foreign worker is "more qualified" than the local.

Clearly not the case here in the USA, as many "equivalent" workers get work visa's.

Moreover, foreign graduates of US universities, get preferential treatment in the US workplace, with lesser salaries.

We have Indonesian friends that have been there and done that, so the aforementioned anecdotal stats mean nothing here.

[HAL 9000 96]

And who's to say that that skilled immigrant won't bring in his/her uneducated mother?

Diana

It would be a lot harder for him/her to do that if we changed our immigration priorities in favor of those who will contribute to our economy.

If we're only interested in people who contribute the economy, then it won't be long before less well-educated Americans will find themselves being deported. The way things are going, this ain't no stretch.

with illegals taking the jobs we allegedly won't do at one end and worker visas taking jobs we allegedly can't do at the other, it won't be too long before an american can't get a job at all.

Funny how it works out no-

We have a choice to be able to do both.

Those that come illegally are happy to get what they can.

i'm failing to see the humor in the situation......

And I, for that matter, in the idiocy of believing that we'd lose a chance eventually to be employed by something forces other than our own choices. Unless its legislation you want...

H1 jobs for the most part are required to be paid higher salaries than many entry-level domestic employers are willing to pay per employee, so in the end most employers will prefer to wait it out for lower paid domestics than higher paid H1s. USCIS requires the employer to follow DoL salary scales per geographic location and job classification for all H1s.

[HAL 9000 96]

I don't see a problem with companies who hire for a position in which they cannot fill with an American with a similar skill set. Unfortunately, I think most of the time it is more about hiring someone with a lower salary.

They can't give them a much lower salary - the Department of Labor (which administers

the H-1B program) requires that an employer pay H-1B workers the same as other

workers with similar skills and qualifications.

Foreigners on H-1B visas do earn 10-25% less on average than American workers with

similar jobs simply because the Department of Labor salary data is inaccurate (or lags

behind inflation.)

Just looking at the academic market in more reputable universities, the demand for highly qualified H1s means higher starting salaries adjusted for location- meaning higher starting salaries than suitably endowed American appointments. At least this is the case for postdocs in most sciences, where I tend to see hordes of H1s.

Nevertheless there are many cases that I've heard of that hiring departments seek more domestic talent AND pay more than the DoL entry level requirements for H1s, but that is merely merit-based and not necessarily tied to regulation of visas.

[Gaby&Talbert 1]

On the unskilled end of labor needed I can speak from experience. I went to the gulf coast after Katrina and it was next to impossible to get labor there. A large portion of the local labor was unwilling to work as long as they were getting free money, as the free money started to run out they started looking for work. Innitially we had to import workers from other parts of the country but as we started hiring local labor the quality was very poor. We were paying above average wages but it was hard to find decent labor locally. Unfortunately to get H1 workers we would have had to prove local labor wasn't available but the problem was that local labor was poor quality. We chose to advertise for labor where large populations of hispanic workforce was available and got much better quality workers at the same cost as poor quality workers that were available locally. For most of the workers citizen or legal immigrant it was the first time they had taxes taken out of their checks. We verified every employee was allowed to work legally. What we discovered is that at that level of education of the workers the Americans had lower values and ethics than the immigrants. The immigrants were usually family oriented and didn't abuse drugs. They were more productive, more punctual, and more respectful on average. I am not saying all unskilled American labor is this way and there are bad workers in every country but if an American has any ambition and willing to relocate where there is work can make a decent living. If they work hard they can learn and gain experience. They can apply for better and better jobs. Lets face it, if an American is 30+ and still taking unskilled labor jobs something is wrong. He has had some bad luck or he has chosen not to improve his life. There are exceptions and this does not apply to women.

[Caladan 19]

I think there's a case to be made for bringing smart, educated people here on a path to permanent residency, but I'm familiar mostly with the academic end of hiring, and it's definitely to our advantage to be able to hire the best people.

The people who come here on these visas will contribute *significantly* to our economy through tax dollars and creation of new jobs (I heard Bill Gates talking on the radio in support of more H1-B visas; for every one highly skilled immigrant hired, *dozens* of jobs are created around that person in terms of support staff.) If the H1-B visas that are available were snapped up that quickly, clearly employers WANT to hire people to do the jobs in the US but are unable to due to the cap on visas.

I know this is a family immigration forum so it's not a popular view, but wouldn't a highly skilled immigrant contribute more to the economy than someone's uneducated mother who comes here after being sponsored by their child?

There's an economic benefit to allowing the newcomer to bring his (or her) family here; more likely that they'll stay and contribute, rather than send money back home or leave once they've built up some cash. Not everyone who moves here thinks the U.S. is better than their home country; they just might like the economic opportunities, and allowing them to bring family here means it's more likely (in theory, at least) that they'll stay.

I'm not sure a more protectionist policy is the way to go. Canada has this (and again, I only know the academic end of it), and to hire an American (or any other foreign) academic they have to swear that no Canadian is *qualified* for the position, not just no Canadian is better-skilled. In practice this means that more Canadians get hired, but it also means that when they do have a chance to hire a very good American scholar, there's a chance that the paperwork will get fouled up. (Having sworn that there is no Canadian qualified means that their second choice can't be Canadian, which means if the American turns down the job offer, their job search will be scuttled for that year.)

This happened to a friend of mine; while a university in Montreal was taking their own sweetas$ time making an offer, he accepted a job at another place, and they didn't fill the position.

Is that better for Canada's universities overall? Hard to say how common my friend's experience is, but most of my colleagues tend not to even bother with applying for the Canadian jobs.