Unprecedented breach of security, Israeli Shin Bet refuses to cooperate with US Secret Service to protect former President Carter

[mawilson 2,133]

In fact, a growing number of Israelis are calling on their government to "talk with Hamas" -- including former Mossad chief Efraim Halevy and even the Mayor of Sderot.

Weak. Negotiating with your enemies is a sign of weakness - you just don't do it,

unless you're losing the war.

Israel has been quite successful in preventing terrorist attacks on its soil - more successful

than ever, in fact. Experience shows that the harder they squeeze, the safer they are.

Loosen travel restrictions and curfews, and get "rewarded" with more terrorist attacks.

Isn't he the same person who was upset over a VJ member saying they wished somebody (a non-member) was dead ?

Interesting.

???

[joelunchbox 0]

Wasn't it Jimmy Carter who engineered the first and longest-lasting peace accord between Israel and an Arab country, at a time when the two were bitter enemies ?

Anyway, Shimon Peres saw no reason to "shun" Carter -- they met yesterday.

Mahmoud Abbas met with Hamas plenty of times, and Israel isn't "shunning" him.

In fact, a growing number of Israelis are calling on their government to "talk with Hamas" -- including former Mossad chief Efraim Halevy and even the Mayor of Sderot.

A group of prominent Americans, including Zbigniew Brzezinski, Brent Scowcraft, Paul Volcker and others, have called for the same thing.

The idea is not so "unheard of" as some would like to think.

Sure, a negotiation engineered collectively by the State Dept. and scripted by the incumbant U.S. president.

Now this egotistical idjit goes off on his own, to project his own foreign policy, ignoring the State Dept. , Israel, and the U.S. President.........

It seems to be something that democrats drink in their water!

Brent Scowcraft, Shimon Peres, Efraim Halevy and the mayor of Sderot are all Democrats ???? Wow... who would've thunk it ?

Anyway, your version of history is a bit different than most accounts, which give Carter a lot of credit for the agreement:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_David_Accords

He meant that the deal with Isreal and Egypt was done as an official government negotiations. Carter, the president, and the State Department worked together to make the deal. No one is denying that. What Carter is doing now is totaly outside the government and isn't sanctioned by the government. Regardless of his intentions it isn't his job any more.

That's right, peace isn't anyone's job anymore.....

You don't make any money from peace.

[joelunchbox 0]

Weak. Negotiating with your enemies is a sign of weakness - you just don't do it,

unless you're losing the war.

No, you attack from a position of weakness.

Israel has been quite successful in preventing terrorist attacks on its soil - more successful

than ever, in fact. Experience shows that the harder they squeeze, the safer they are.

Loosen travel restrictions and curfews, and get "rewarded" with more terrorist attacks.

And how many days of "peace" has Israel had??

And how many have read any factual book on the middle east lately??

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

In fact, a growing number of Israelis are calling on their government to "talk with Hamas" -- including former Mossad chief Efraim Halevy and even the Mayor of Sderot.

Weak. Negotiating with your enemies is a sign of weakness - you just don't do it,

unless you're losing the war.

Israel has been quite successful in preventing terrorist attacks on its soil - more successful

than ever, in fact. Experience shows that the harder they squeeze, the safer they are.

Loosen travel restrictions and curfews, and get "rewarded" with more terrorist attacks.

So.... Israel was "weak" or "losing the war" when it negotiated peace agreements with Egypt and Jordan ?

Actually, Israel's own policies have turned it into the most dangerous place for Jews anywhere on earth. This wasn't the case until the last 15 years or so. And the period of increasing violence corresponds exactly to Israel's increasingly hardline measures -- it's stepped-up building of illegal settlements on Palestinian land, its push to annex increasing amounts of Palestinian property, and its drastically increased oppression of the Palestinian people.

The record shows the facts: the "harder" Israel "squeezes," the worse the violence gets.

Some cynics have asked -- does Israel really want peace ? Or does it prefer an endless state of war, even deliberately instigating further hostilities, which it then attempts to use as an excuse to expand its territory ?

Some cynics say that Israeli leaders will use any excuse they can dream up to avoid facing real peace negotiations with the Palestinians, because Israel isn't done taking what it wants yet -- in particular the choice real estate of the West Bank, including its vital water resources.

A fair and negotiated peace would mean that Israel would have to evacuate all of its illegal settlements (or give up territory in exchange for them,) pull its military entirely out of the West Bank, leave East Jerusalem, give up its totalitarian control of Palestinian borders and airspace and coastal waters, and either allow Palestinian refugees to return to their property, or pay them just reparations. This scenario is far more disturbing to certain Israeli factions than the thought of endless war and the senseless deaths of thousands (perhaps many more.)

Isn't he the same person who was upset over a VJ member saying they wished somebody (a non-member) was dead ?

Interesting.

???

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=121612

[joelunchbox 0]

Something we tend to forget is that Israel is made up of many factions. Just like every other nation.

[simple_male 1]

Dan + Gemvita has it right.

Being a member of Hamas, or providing them material support, is certainly illegal under current U.S. regulations, and would be grounds for denying a visa to an immigrant or visitor.

However, meeting with Hamas is *not* illegal. LOL if it was, you'd have to arrest a whole lot of journalists and other perfectly law-abiding people.

Jimmy Carter is not violating any U.S. law.

Spot on WOM.

Why does everyone have a problem with a former "Statesman" visiting problematic areas to promote peace?

He is not an "official" of the United States anymore, rather an influential US representative with good intentions.

Official US diplomatic representation is not even in question here.

Brother William, I agree with what you said. Actually, Jimmy Carter helped broker a peace treaty between Egypt and Israel and it is still holding today. Some don't like Jimmy Carter because he tried to be fair to both parties. He said terrorism by hamas and other groups are despicable. He also said that Israel has a choice to make, either live in peace with its Arab neighbors or continue illegal settlements and occupation (both are illegal under international law). Blind supporters of Israel do not like his view on illegal settlements and occupation. So that's why, there is so much uproar! Plus his book, "Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid" made him even more unpopular among blind supporters of Israel. This is a classic example actually. One can criticize any country's wrongdoings except Israel.

Edited April 15, 2008 by simple_male