Riots in Egypt?

[Caladan 19]

Been reading about food shortages & the resulting riots in Egypt in the news lately. Everyone's s.o.'s okay?

[Nagishkaw 510]

Quite ok.

[ya falaha! 0]

LOL! I just posted about this in another thread. It seems the media is really making a molehill into a mountain about this subject. One of my husband's regular customers came in yesterday really concerned about the welfare of my husband's family. The man was ready to give him money to send back home. My husband didn't even know of such goings on and he speaks with his family a couple times a week. He knew that the prices of certain food items has gone up but nothing to this extent.

To answer your question though...his family is doing just fine.

[Caladan 19]

Yeah, the media haven't been much clearer than 'Egypt' which doesn't really give a good sense of it.

[chaishai 1]

LOL! I just posted about this in another thread. It seems the media is really making a molehill into a mountain about this subject. One of my husband's regular customers came in yesterday really concerned about the welfare of my husband's family. The man was ready to give him money to send back home. My husband didn't even know of such goings on and he speaks with his family a couple times a week. He knew that the prices of certain food items has gone up but nothing to this extent.

To answer your question though...his family is doing just fine.

lol i listen to npr alot in the morning and heard about this and was thinking to myself if people in VJ arent complaining about it then it must be the media blowing things out of proportion

they are also saying the same thing is happening in haiti and its all supposed to be the start of a global recession

and another thing

i just get so stressed listening to stations like NPR and the doom and gloom of the economy. what is funny is i am in the same job, nothing has changed, nothing to lead me to believe i might lose this job, my husband still earns money but i get panicked like the world is about to end.

i have been listening to cheesy dance music stations lately instead.

[polarbear 0]

My SO's family is from Mahalla, and I know they are hurting right now but I hadn't heard about the riots. They are starting to sell things from the home though, so yeah, the situation is bad. The price of everything has tripled it seems and my husband has cancelled his trip home to just send the money but they do have alot of doctor's bills right now so it's a little different. And they will be fine, they have a farm and shouldn't go hungry at least

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

Having a minor in foreign and international affairs I have been following these political events for some perspective on it. This isn't so much as making a mountian out of a molehill as much as focusing on the real issues at hand in Egypt. From what I have observed they are in danger of a revolution.

However this is only possible if several precondiontions exhist which they seem to be manifesting currently.

These riots are not new they have been building and gaining momentum.

Mubarak is in his 80's looking to transition his position to his son. Which everyone knows in a true democracy you can not inherenitly transition your position hereditarily. Many Egyptions do not believe it is a true democracy which it isn't in MHO and I know many of you agree with me.

Second is Mubarak has to appease the elites which include the land owners, the professionals such as doctors, laywers, business men, and educated skilled workers. As well as appease the military and beauracracy.

To have a successful revolution the peasants and the middle class have to form a coalition. These coalitions are mobalised by the elites. These coalitions come from educated college students and intellectuals who tell the peasants you are suppressed come with me; such as in the case of China's Tinaman Square. We witnessed that massacare in 1989.

President Mubarak as a sort of neopolitican uses the carrot and the stick approach. Offering goodies and rewards to the elites. The carrot is as strange as it seems is built on a reputation of trust and promises on to the elites to gain alliances. The stick is a suppression method not for the masses but for those that get out of line. One example is in the case of the Muslim Brotherhood. Mubarak ordered the arrest of up to 247 members and counting in the last two weeks who participated in protests and riots recently for no other reason but the suppresse the opposition in the coming elections.

The major downfall here is US policy and economical support that undermines the presidency. Usually towards the end such as we're witnessing now the US policy affects the perception of the peasants and the middle class who believe that the Presidency is in alliance with foreign policy more than Egyptian policy. When elites start turning agains the President he has to turn to relying on forgien aid to support the domestic policy and pay out on those carrots. Relying heavily on this support while being told by the US policy we'd like to see you form a true democracy and form some basic human rights in accordance with our policy helps to undermine that leader. First that leader wishes nothing more than to stay in power just like he has for the last 30 years. Second telling him to support human rights is undermining his suppression efforts to stay in power.

When the coalition recognizes this they form a sense of nationalism stating that the President is more in line or possibly under the influence of the US policy more than the Egyptian policy. This creates the revolts which we have seen in prior revolutions.

When you have an economic downturn like we are witnessing with the bread shortages in Egypt this also contributes to the frustation of the individual.

I could go on here but then it would turn into a very long post so I'll keep it short for the moment until I find points to correct and educate further on about what I know and what I witness.

For those of you that have your SO's here already be glad they are not where they are right now before the trasistion comes in the Egyptian government. You are very lucky.

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

Egypt Police Arrest Democracy Activist

By PAKINAM AMER – 20 hours ago

CAIRO, Egypt (AP) — A key leader of Egypt's main pro-democracy group was arrested Wednesday night during a raid on his home in Cairo, police and group officials said.

George Ishaq, director-general of Kifaya, was taken away by security officers who stormed the home around 8 p.m., one of the group's founders, Abdel-Halim Qandil, told The Associated Press. He said more than 50 members of the movement had been arrested this week.

A police officer confirmed Ishaq's arrest, speaking on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to talk to reporters.

Ishaq had not been formally charged, but was expected to undergo interrogation. Egyptian authorities often detain suspects for weeks or months without charge.

Kifaya, which means "Enough" in Arabic, is a broad-based movement that has spearheaded demonstrations against the government of President Hosni Mubarak since late 2004.

Qandil accused the Egyptian government of cracking down on Kifaya in retaliation for a nationwide labor strike last weekend.

"The authorities want to create a case against Kifaya. They want to indict us and frame the movement as a banned group," Qandil said.

"It's not like Kifaya is a secret society or an underground group. We openly call for demonstrations and strikes, but we do this without harming national security or public and private property," he said.

Thousands of Egyptians skipped school and work Sunday and hundreds marched at rallies across the country to protest high food prices. The demonstrations were organized by several opposition groups, including Kifaya.

The nationwide strike was the first major attempt by such groups to turn the past year's labor unrest into a wider political protest against Mubarak's government and his ruling party.

Source

56 injured in Egypt's latest unrests

Thu, 10 Apr 2008 13:25:15

At least 56 people have been injured in police attempts to stop riots over low wages and rising prices in northern Egypt, officials say.

Police and security forces clashed with some 2000 protesters who had gathered in front of two police stations in the town of Mahalla al-Kobra north of Cairo, Egyptian sources said on Wednesday.

The angry demonstrators demanded the immediate release of hundreds of people who were arrested when they protested against the price hikes on April 6 and 7.

During the two days of protest in Egypt, some 40 police vehicles were set ablaze and more than 87 rioters were arrested.

On Wednesday, a 45-year old man wounded during Monday clashes died at a hospital from a bullet wound to the head, becoming the second fatality since the beginning of the unrest.

The other, a 15-year-old, was reportedly targeted while standing on a third-floor apartment balcony, watching the protesters run from riot police.

MRS/RA

Source

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

I wasn't sure to put this in the Riots Thread or my Human Rights Thread or start a new thread.

Egypt arrests 9 journalists following economic riots

Egyptian freedom of speech scrutinized yet again as authorities order arrests of journalists, photographers, bloggers covering riots in northern city of Mahalla. Rights groups slam arrests

Associated Press

Published: 04.11.08, 22:35 / Israel News

Egyptian authorities detained at least nine Egyptian photojournalists and cameramen on Friday in a northern industrial city where economic riots erupted earlier this week, a security official said.

Also on Friday, James Buck, an American freelance journalist detained in Egypt the previous day over his coverage of the riots, said he had been released but was staying in a police station to protest the arrest of his translator.

Meanwhile, London-based Amnesty International said it was disturbed by the killings of two Egyptians during the rioting in Mahalla el-Kobra and the arrests of pro-democracy activists after unrest sparked by rising food prices.

Rising prices have struck hard in Egypt, a US ally where 20 percent of the country's population of 76 million lives below the poverty line of around US$2 a day. Mahalla, home to the Middle East's largest textile factory, has seen a wave of strikes for more than a year.

Worst unrest in 30 years

Earlier this week, protesters tore down a billboard of President Hosni Mubarak and fought with police in clashes in Mahalla that claimed two lives. It was Egypt's worst unrest since 1977 riots over increased bread prices.

The journalists arrested Friday were apparently in Mahalla to cover a visit by a group of professors and activists who came to express solidarity with the residents of the gritty Nile Delta city.

Among those arrested were Reuters photographer Nasser Nouri and independent Egyptian weekly paper El-Fagr's Ahmed Hamad, as well as journalists for Dream TV and Orbit TV, said the security official.

Buck told AP that state prosecutor had ordered his release early Friday along with his translator Mohammed Saleh Ahmed. But the two were re-arrested as soon as they stepped out of the prosecutor's office in Mahalla. Although Buck was later told he was again free to go, he declined to leave without Ahmed, who remained in custody.

Police also prevented the group of 50 university professors, political activists and journalists from entering Mahalla earlier Friday.

The demonstrations were organized by several opposition groups, including the pro-democracy Kifaya. It was the first major attempt by such groups to turn labor disenchantment into a wider political protest against President Hosni Mubarak's government.

Bloggers beware

Authorities arrested several Kifaya members and leaders afterward, including George Ishaq, along with his two associates. They were charged with inciting unrest and violence, which can carry up to 10 years in jail.

However, Ishaq was ordered released Friday on bail set at 10,000 Egyptian pounds, (approx $1,800). One of Ishaq's associates was ordered detained for 15 days pending investigation, while the other was to face a medical committee Saturday to determine whether he can be held in detention because of poor health.

Also Friday, Reporters Without Borders condemned arrest of three Egyptian bloggers accused of calling for the Sunday strike. The group said the three, who were ordered detained for two weeks, were charged with forming a group to "Undermine public security," Ransacking public buildings and insulting police.

The Paris-based watchdog known as RSF, said there were no legal grounds for their arrests - all that they did was support the April 6 strike, ask Egyptians to wear black, display national flags and boycott shopping on the day of the strike.

Egyptian authorities are "Cracking down on anyone who may have issued the strike call, and bloggers are likely suspects," said the RSF. "We call for their release."

Egypt's highest ranking Muslim imam, Sheik Mohammad Seyed Tantawi said in a sermons during Friday prayers that those inciting riots deserve punishment and that their acts amount to "sabotage." He was quoted by the state MENA news agency as saying that this "Is criminal and deserves extreme punishment from God and people."

Source

[Max russell 0]

Having a minor in foreign and international affairs I have been following these political events for some perspective on it. This isn't so much as making a mountian out of a molehill as much as focusing on the real issues at hand in Egypt. From what I have observed they are in danger of a revolution.

However this is only possible if several precondiontions exhist which they seem to be manifesting currently.

These riots are not new they have been building and gaining momentum.

Mubarak is in his 80's looking to transition his position to his son. Which everyone knows in a true democracy you can not inherenitly transition your position hereditarily. Many Egyptions do not believe it is a true democracy which it isn't in MHO and I know many of you agree with me.

Second is Mubarak has to appease the elites which include the land owners, the professionals such as doctors, laywers, business men, and educated skilled workers. As well as appease the military and beauracracy.

To have a successful revolution the peasants and the middle class have to form a coalition. These coalitions are mobalised by the elites. These coalitions come from educated college students and intellectuals who tell the peasants you are suppressed come with me; such as in the case of China's Tinaman Square. We witnessed that massacare in 1989.

President Mubarak as a sort of neopolitican uses the carrot and the stick approach. Offering goodies and rewards to the elites. The carrot is as strange as it seems is built on a reputation of trust and promises on to the elites to gain alliances. The stick is a suppression method not for the masses but for those that get out of line. One example is in the case of the Muslim Brotherhood. Mubarak ordered the arrest of up to 247 members and counting in the last two weeks who participated in protests and riots recently for no other reason but the suppresse the opposition in the coming elections.

The major downfall here is US policy and economical support that undermines the presidency. Usually towards the end such as we're witnessing now the US policy affects the perception of the peasants and the middle class who believe that the Presidency is in alliance with foreign policy more than Egyptian policy. When elites start turning agains the President he has to turn to relying on forgien aid to support the domestic policy and pay out on those carrots. Relying heavily on this support while being told by the US policy we'd like to see you form a true democracy and form some basic human rights in accordance with our policy helps to undermine that leader. First that leader wishes nothing more than to stay in power just like he has for the last 30 years. Second telling him to support human rights is undermining his suppression efforts to stay in power.

When the coalition recognizes this they form a sense of nationalism stating that the President is more in line or possibly under the influence of the US policy more than the Egyptian policy. This creates the revolts which we have seen in prior revolutions.

When you have an economic downturn like we are witnessing with the bread shortages in Egypt this also contributes to the frustation of the individual.

I could go on here but then it would turn into a very long post so I'll keep it short for the moment until I find points to correct and educate further on about what I know and what I witness.

For those of you that have your SO's here already be glad they are not where they are right now before the trasistion comes in the Egyptian government. You are very lucky.

please go on Olivia, thanks

Edited April 12, 2008 by Max russell

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

please go on Olivia, thanks

Ok please understand I'm not giving a "how to have a revolution" tutorial.

One more thing I could mention is that to have a truly successful revolution the coalition would have to capture all the territories of Egypt. That means from the rural regions to the urban regions to Upper Egypt and Lower Egypt. It can't have much success just holding one riot or demonstration in a large city like Mahalla once every 30 years. The coalition would have to keep momentum and reach a vast audience to gain support. One way this was done in Iran by the Iatola Komeni (SP?) was they recruited in Mosques. In Tehran there are over 800 mosques alone.

I have heard that in Egypt some Egyptians speak out in opposition to any political talks being held in Mosques saying that "Politics have no place in a place of worship." So I am unsure how popular this could be. Another place to reach people is in these inside outside cafes that seem to be all over Egypt.

One concern about the coalition may be the radical groups. However in revolutions you have political violence usually and they most often come from these radical groups. One flaw in the MENA radical groups is you often have random acts of violence like a car bomb but it's not connected to any group or political message. Therefore by not being classified with any political message it is not recognized as political violence. If radicals are going to get political then when they do their acts of violence they would need to connect it to a political message. Radical groups that take over are often more coercive then the previous regime. If the moderates come into power their biggest failure is often not mobalizing quick enough to absorb the demands fo the people as well as using force against the radical who are like the hardliner hawks who want to come into power. I'm not suggesting this as much as citing case studies from my Political Violence and Revolution class.

Another thing for it to be a successful revolution would where the military loyalty lies. If he military splits in it's loyalty with the President then the President is under serious threat and may flee. Dictator-Presidents rarely come into power under peaceful democratic elections. Look at the example of Mubarak came into power. He was in the car that Sadat was assassinated in and Sadat was assassinated by members of his own military for having signed the peace treaty with Israel.

The last thing I will point out is revolutions take a long time in some cases to gain momentum. In the case of Nicaragua revolution it took nearly 25 years for the opposition and voice of descent to capture the majority of the populations support who had endured the corporation of Somoza dynasty for far longer than that. What was the pivitol flash point for their revolution was the Christmas Earth Quake that devastated the nation and how Somoza saw it as an opportunity to plunder and exploit even further.

Hopefully the revolution in Egypt would take longer than shorter and all our SO's remain safe for the time being.

[Max russell 0]

Thanks a lot Olivia

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Oh dear Lord where to begin with this....

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

I'm learning there is another strike set for April 6th just like the one that happened in Mahalla.

[doodlebugg 10]

Oh dear Lord where to begin with this....