Here's a fact you don't hear much about: Between a third and a half of the nation's illegal immigrants - at least 3.8 million people - entered the USA

[Artegal 1]

I knew this fact

1)I had read that in the 1986 amnesty the first few hundred thousand were irish illegal aliens.

2)the only mexican illegal alien I know personally came to the USA on a tourist visa and never left.

[Fandango 1,440]

Almaty:

Great post! Do you have any references to site?

This is exactly why IMBRA is STUPID! Instead of fixing the current immigration process domestically, some special interest groups (match.com, tehrih justice center, etc.) have sent up this IMBRA smoke screen under the guise of protecting women and immigrants... ironcially making it harder on those of us who are actually working on LEGAL immigration.

The immigration process was and is broke to begin with, and IMBRA just makes it "broker" (it wasn't a word before, but it is now :-)

Now I digress...

I have seen arguments from those on VJ who say "I think its great that you can find out if your fiancee has a police record". OK, fine, no problem, but why didn't the IMBRA architects construct a law in the USA that makes DOMESTIC COUPLES submit police records BEFORE EXCHANGING PHONE NUMBERS or contact info... that's what IMBRA does... now do you folks see how STUPID this is?

Says 'looking4wife' with line one of his profile...

My wife and I met through a Marriage Agency in Barranquilla, Colombia.

IMBRA's the law. deal with it. This is a different discussion

[Looking4Wife 0]

IMBRA's the law. deal with it. This is a different discussion

Point taken, I acknowledged my digression in the discussion, and I apologize for veering off topic.

However, since you addressed my off topic rant...

IMBRA is the law. How do we in the USA "deal with" laws we don't think are unfair, inefficient, or problematic? It all BEGINS (not ends) with voicing that our concerns.

At one time slavery was the law also...

At one time the law was that women couldn't vote...

The law is NOT almighty... thank God!

[Fandango 1,440]

IMBRA's the law. deal with it. This is a different discussion

Point taken, I acknowledged my digression in the discussion, and I apologize for veering off topic.

However, since you addressed my off topic rant...

IMBRA is the law. How do we in the USA "deal with" laws we don't think are unfair, inefficient, or problematic? It all BEGINS (not ends) with voicing that our concerns.

At one time slavery was the law also...

At one time the law was that women couldn't vote...

The law is NOT almighty... thank God!

Blah de blah...go b!tch about it in the IMBRA forum...this is not the place for it. It's been hashed six ways from Sunday here already. This topic has nowt to do with IMBRA, so stop trying to make this about your personal agenda.

IMBRA is not slavery or a time without women's suffrage. You may think it's unfair...so do something about it...ie lobby Congress....b!tching about it here isn't going to solve your problem.

Now back to our regularly scheduled program....

[one...two...tree 2,762]

The fact that many of them are overstays does not make their presence here any less illegal.

It's illegal to drive over the posted speed limit, but most people do it and for the most part it's not a big deal insofar as we don't label speeders as criminals. In the heated debate over illegal immigrants the claim that they are 'criminals' because they are here illegally is intellectually dishonest. If the only criteria for labelling someone a criminal is for them to break a law (any law) then most of us here would fit in that category.

[Fandango 1,440]

The fact that many of them are overstays does not make their presence here any less illegal.

It's illegal to drive over the posted speed limit, but most people do it and for the most part it's not a big deal insofar as we don't label speeders as criminals. In the heated debate over illegal immigrants the claim that they are 'criminals' because they are here illegally is intellectually dishonest. If the only criteria for labelling someone a criminal is for them to break a law (any law) then most of us here would fit in that category.

Comparing someone illegally staying & working in a country to going over the speed limint? That's a stretch even for you.....

Oh well, off to work now! fight ya later

[one...two...tree 2,762]

The fact that many of them are overstays does not make their presence here any less illegal.

It's illegal to drive over the posted speed limit, but most people do it and for the most part it's not a big deal insofar as we don't label speeders as criminals. In the heated debate over illegal immigrants the claim that they are 'criminals' because they are here illegally is intellectually dishonest. If the only criteria for labelling someone a criminal is for them to break a law (any law) then most of us here would fit in that category.

Comparing someone illegally staying & working in a country to going over the speed limint? That's a stretch even for you.....

Oh well, off to work now! fight ya later

Hmmm...did I really compare the two or was I demonstrating that not everything that is deemed illegal is criminal?

[peejay 327]

Fixes for the nation's out-of-control immigration problem aren't easy in any case, but they'll prove useless as long as those who write the laws respond solely to stereotypes. A fence in the backyard isn't the solution if as many as half of the illegal immigrants are walking in through the front door.

And giving amnesty and citizenship to these people whether they came in through the front door or the back door isn't even close to solving the problem. In fact...it makes it worst. Then the other billion or so have the incentive to do the same sh*t.

That is the US Chamber of Commerce, Wall Street Journal, LaRaza, MALDEF, LULAC, etc. solution.

I prefer H.R.4437. All the above listed special interests hate H.R.4437 because they know the 20+ year old joke on the American people would be over. Turn out the lights...the party's over!

Cheap labor and cheap votes is the bottom line.

[almaty 19]

Fixes for the nation's out-of-control immigration problem aren't easy in any case, but they'll prove useless as long as those who write the laws respond solely to stereotypes. A fence in the backyard isn't the solution if as many as half of the illegal immigrants are walking in through the front door.

And giving amnesty and citizenship to these people whether they came in through the front door or the back door isn't even close to solving the problem. In fact...it makes it worst. Then the other billion or so have the incentive to do the same sh*t.

That is the US Chamber of Commerce, Wall Street Journal, LaRaza, MALDEF, LULAC, etc. solution.

I prefer H.R.4437. All the above listed special interests hate H.R.4437 because they know the 20+ year old joke on the American people would be over. Turn out the lights...the party's over!

Cheap labor and cheap votes is the bottom line.

some good points ther peejay..i agree the cheap labor and cheap votes are the driver

[Mirorgate 0]

Fixes for the nation's out-of-control immigration problem aren't easy in any case, but they'll prove useless as long as those who write the laws respond solely to stereotypes. A fence in the backyard isn't the solution if as many as half of the illegal immigrants are walking in through the front door.

And giving amnesty and citizenship to these people whether they came in through the front door or the back door isn't even close to solving the problem. In fact...it makes it worst. Then the other billion or so have the incentive to do the same sh*t.

That is the US Chamber of Commerce, Wall Street Journal, LaRaza, MALDEF, LULAC, etc. solution.

I prefer H.R.4437. All the above listed special interests hate H.R.4437 because they know the 20+ year old joke on the American people would be over. Turn out the lights...the party's over!

Cheap labor and cheap votes is the bottom line.

some good points ther peejay..i agree the cheap labor and cheap votes are the driver

Hmmm... I seem to have pissed off a few local employers by wearing my newly made t-shirt to clean up teh area around the local illegal job hunting house. Just a local club with shirt in big letters printed on Back

Immediate

Neighborhood

Securities

here to clean up the place. Think I got about 8 bags of trash to the dumpster... and lots of stares and getsures

[Fandango 1,440]

The fact that many of them are overstays does not make their presence here any less illegal.

It's illegal to drive over the posted speed limit, but most people do it and for the most part it's not a big deal insofar as we don't label speeders as criminals. In the heated debate over illegal immigrants the claim that they are 'criminals' because they are here illegally is intellectually dishonest. If the only criteria for labelling someone a criminal is for them to break a law (any law) then most of us here would fit in that category.

Comparing someone illegally staying & working in a country to going over the speed limint? That's a stretch even for you.....

Oh well, off to work now! fight ya later

Hmmm...did I really compare the two or was I demonstrating that not everything that is deemed illegal is criminal?

Yes you did...it's called a drawing a parallel, dur!

any other questions, feel free to ask

For the love of God, dunno what speeding has to do with illegal immigration, lolz

[*Robert* 2]

I've always been amazed at the lack of immigration procedures in the US when it comes to exiting the US. In most other countries I've been to, you go through customs and immigration going into the country, and again LEAVING the country. Granted most of those countries also charge you an airport tax, and maybe that is something that could be done here to offset any costs of implementing a system that works! They track not only their own citizens, but foreign passport holders as well. Is there something wrong with this? Why is it not done here in the US?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

The fact that many of them are overstays does not make their presence here any less illegal.

It's illegal to drive over the posted speed limit, but most people do it and for the most part it's not a big deal insofar as we don't label speeders as criminals. In the heated debate over illegal immigrants the claim that they are 'criminals' because they are here illegally is intellectually dishonest. If the only criteria for labelling someone a criminal is for them to break a law (any law) then most of us here would fit in that category.

Comparing someone illegally staying & working in a country to going over the speed limint? That's a stretch even for you.....

Oh well, off to work now! fight ya later

Hmmm...did I really compare the two or was I demonstrating that not everything that is deemed illegal is criminal?

Yes you did...it's called a drawing a parallel, dur!

any other questions, feel free to ask

For the love of God, dunno what speeding has to do with illegal immigration, lolz

You pick apart and slice and dice...amazing. I'm gonna call you Ginsu Lisa from now on...oye!

Let me ask you (off the topic)... Are you much of a reader (as in things besides blogs - literature)?

[Fandango 1,440]

The fact that many of them are overstays does not make their presence here any less illegal.

It's illegal to drive over the posted speed limit, but most people do it and for the most part it's not a big deal insofar as we don't label speeders as criminals. In the heated debate over illegal immigrants the claim that they are 'criminals' because they are here illegally is intellectually dishonest. If the only criteria for labelling someone a criminal is for them to break a law (any law) then most of us here would fit in that category.

Comparing someone illegally staying & working in a country to going over the speed limint? That's a stretch even for you.....

Oh well, off to work now! fight ya later

Hmmm...did I really compare the two or was I demonstrating that not everything that is deemed illegal is criminal?

Yes you did...it's called a drawing a parallel, dur!

any other questions, feel free to ask

For the love of God, dunno what speeding has to do with illegal immigration, lolz

You pick apart and slice and dice...amazing. I'm gonna call you Ginsu Lisa from now on...oye!

Let me ask you (off the topic)... Are you much of a reader (as in things besides blogs - literature)?

Literature? wot's that?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

The fact that many of them are overstays does not make their presence here any less illegal.

It's illegal to drive over the posted speed limit, but most people do it and for the most part it's not a big deal insofar as we don't label speeders as criminals. In the heated debate over illegal immigrants the claim that they are 'criminals' because they are here illegally is intellectually dishonest. If the only criteria for labelling someone a criminal is for them to break a law (any law) then most of us here would fit in that category.

You gotta work on your argument a little more. Breaking any law doesn't make one a criminal. Some infractions are deemed misdemeanors (not crimes) while others are felonies (crimes). Depends on the severety of the offense which category an infraction falls into. Many of the infractions that typically go along with an unauthorized entry into and/or presence in this country are felonies - for starters: falsifying government documents, tax evasion (you gotta do at least one of these if you live and work here illegally). Thus, many (or dare I say most) of those here illegally are actually criminals.