Fiance Visa denied for a silly reason

[Rosi and Chuck 0]

Heck no!! But if they ask, we will tell them the truth about it - and we'll also be ready to produce the authorization from the Catholic Archbishop that lets us get religiously married without being legally married - and the certified translation. That's the thing - one shouldn't have to change one's life around because of a fear of some bureaucrat. But there's also no sense courting danger - or lying.

[diadromous mermaid 36]

I'm actually an immigration lawyer, and I'm planning to do a religious wedding ceremony before the K-1 interview... Just what people don't recommend. It is risky, that's true - some would stay stupid - but there just isn't any substitute for it. It certainly may cause troubles, but if you stand your ground, it should come out ok in the end. Hindsight is 20-20, but the better course would have been to (a) refuse to sign anything withdrawing the visa, (B) ask to talk with a supervisor, and © hire a lawyer, if necessary.

Legally, you were in the right; though it would have been a good idea to have obtained further proofs that your ceremony wasn't a legally recognized wedding (since it is your "burden of proof" to show that you're still eligible for the visa, and the ceremony may give rise to doubts).

As has been pointed out, your act of withdrawing the visa may turn out to be harder to undo than the wedding ceremony. Honestly, I don't know if a lawyer would be able to help out too much at this point (though it couldn't hurt - unless it delays things). One thing you might try would be to go into the US citizen services section (so that you can make it past the front door), and ask to speak with someone - it's not going to be easy, but if you keep asking to talk with someone, it may work - don't get angry, don't get offensive, but keep pushing. You want to undo that withdrawal - you want to talk with someone - you want to talk with a supervisor - you want to talk with the Consul. Keep at it, and you may get somewhere.

Oh, and another thought is to contact your Congressional representative, a senator or representative can do amazing things when it comes to the consulates. They're helpless with USCIS, but DOS is responsive. In fact, I'd email them this weekend, before I went back to the consulate. That way, if things don't look good, I'd sort of let that slip into your conversation - you may find that it encourages them to listen to you more closely.

Good luck - sorry to hear of how things have gone for you. I sure hope that doesn't happen to us!

Chuck

PS - this is not legal advice, and should not be treated as such - if I were going to advise you, I'd be asking numerous other questions about your personal situation, and more on the specifics of what went on.

Are you going to include your wedding pictures in with your petition and at interview?

Chris

Even if he were to provide photos, I would think that with his knowledge of immigration law, he would be well-armed to put a CO on the right path. The issue is not about choosing against having a religious celebration prior to using a K-1, it's about being ready and able to disprove a presumption that the CO might have.

[busta_busta 0]

This post is like deja vu for myself with a slight variance.

In 2006 my "wife" and I were married in a religous ceremony in London, England. I was told and foolishly believed that the marriage certificate would be accepted as a legal marriage. I therefore submitted an I-130 and 1-129F in Jan '07 for a K-3 visa since I figured we were legally married. The petition was approved in April 2007 by USCIS and forwarded to the London consulate in May '07. At that time we received a letter to call the consulate and were told that we did not have a legal marriage according to US immigration law. She added that if we had a religous ceremony done in say India it would have been ok, because religous weddings there are accepted as a legal marriage.

Now I understand you say that your marriage was not registered. However, as far as the embassy is concerned you had a legal marriage.

Similarly, I was told that we had to reapply for a K-1 visa. We are still in that process and the petition was finally approved and is now sitting at the London Embassy. I tried to fight having to reapply but quickly realized that it was a losing battle.

Hope this helps, but you're better off just preparing the paperwork for the K-3 and sending it off. I'm no immigration expert, but that is my opinion based on my prior experience.

[rebeccajo 14]

I still don't understand why people dither about with these 'religious' or ceremonial or whatever-you-care-to-call-these 'non-official' marital parties.

I can understand an engagement party to announce the couples intentions.

But anything that remotely smells like a blessing of marital union just seems like pushing the envelope to me.

Somebody will probably be happy now to come along and educate me about cultural customs I'm not aware of, or the desire of the couple to please the immigrant partner's family. That's a situation I wasn't in personally but I can still appreciate the desire of the couple to satisfy customs and family. But it's the US government you are applying for a visa through, and US law which ultimately applies.

I just think it's risky. Especially in the case of western couples who are trying to pull off a 'non-legal' ceremony. A western bride in a flowing white gown with 200 people around her having a sit-down meal is usually a legally pronounced wife once the 'party is over. That type of ceremony with a non-binding result certainly isn't the norm in the west.

[Munesh and Suz 0]

Submitting the pictures of the wedding was a pretty silly thing to do - being denied because of the pictures cannot be considered so silly because from everything I have read on VJ you have to have to be completely single when filing for a fiance visa. You guys went and showed the CO pictures of your wedding - what else are they going to think?

Anyway, the only thing I can suggest to you guys now is sign the legal papers to show your marriage and have your fiance file the I-130 and follow that process. You guys didn't take too long to from filing to interview so this time might not take that long too. Keep your faith and FOLLOW THE RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dan J 277]

I still don't understand why people dither about with these 'religious' or ceremonial or whatever-you-care-to-call-these 'non-official' marital parties.

I can understand an engagement party to announce the couples intentions.

But anything that remotely smells like a blessing of marital union just seems like pushing the envelope to me.

Somebody will probably be happy now to come along and educate me about cultural customs I'm not aware of, or the desire of the couple to please the immigrant partner's family. That's a situation I wasn't in personally but I can still appreciate the desire of the couple to satisfy customs and family. But it's the US government you are applying for a visa through, and US law which ultimately applies.

I just think it's risky. Especially in the case of western couples who are trying to pull off a 'non-legal' ceremony. A western bride in a flowing white gown with 200 people around her having a sit-down meal is usually a legally pronounced wife once the 'party is over. That type of ceremony with a non-binding result certainly isn't the norm in the west.

Its not really that risky, if you take the time to research and understand the complexities of it.

We did the K-1 route because its less culturally acceptible for a wife to be away from her husband for a long period of time.

We did a ceremony/rececption in Indonesia out of respect for my wife's parents and family. But we did it after we already had the visa, and right before we left to the US. In doing it, we made it clear that this would a non-legal cermony. And under Indonesian law, that by itself was not legally binding.

If anyone is going to do a non-legally binding cermony for whatever reason. Make sure you completly understand the marriage laws of the country you plan to do the cermony in. Do not give the CO or Immigration officers any reason to suspect that you might be married.

[rebeccajo 14]

I still don't understand why people dither about with these 'religious' or ceremonial or whatever-you-care-to-call-these 'non-official' marital parties.

I can understand an engagement party to announce the couples intentions.

But anything that remotely smells like a blessing of marital union just seems like pushing the envelope to me.

Somebody will probably be happy now to come along and educate me about cultural customs I'm not aware of, or the desire of the couple to please the immigrant partner's family. That's a situation I wasn't in personally but I can still appreciate the desire of the couple to satisfy customs and family. But it's the US government you are applying for a visa through, and US law which ultimately applies.

I just think it's risky. Especially in the case of western couples who are trying to pull off a 'non-legal' ceremony. A western bride in a flowing white gown with 200 people around her having a sit-down meal is usually a legally pronounced wife once the 'party is over. That type of ceremony with a non-binding result certainly isn't the norm in the west.

Its not really that risky, if you take the time to research and understand the complexities of it.

We did the K-1 route because its less culturally acceptible for a wife to be away from her husband for a long period of time.

We did a ceremony/rececption in Indonesia out of respect for my wife's parents and family. But we did it after we already had the visa, and right before we left to the US. In doing it, we made it clear that this would a non-legal cermony. And under Indonesian law, that by itself was not legally binding.

If anyone is going to do a non-legally binding cermony for whatever reason. Make sure you completly understand the marriage laws of the country you plan to do the cermony in. Do not give the CO or Immigration officers any reason to suspect that you might be married.

Dan -

I like your post, especially the part about understanding fully the laws and customs of the country. I've read some accounts of 'non-legal' marriages wherein it was frankly my opinion that the ceremony was 'not legal' simply because the couple decreed it as such.

I've also seen before similar advice as you give regarding holding such a ceremony AFTER the grant of the visa. I think that's probably the best thing a couple can do if they feel compelled to have a celebration in the foreign born spouses country.

I'd just like to add a further word of caution though. When one is dealing with matters of immigration probably the most serious and difficult to refute charge is any form of misrepresentation. Misrepresentation doesn't just occur by lying on documents; it occurs verbally and by action as well. Many readers to this forum are also unaware of the truly real authority given to Customs and Border agents in making decisions regarding misrepresentation. Readers are aware CBP make decisions regarding admission to the country, but most are not aware that a CBP officers documented decision that an immigrant misrepresented themself at port of entry is non-disputable. That ultimate authority can have life-altering consequences.

Meaning - what? Don't attempt to be clever and hold a ceremony that would be regarded as legal in the home country after the visa is granted with the plan of entering the US and having a legal 're-do' over here. That is also misrepresentation.

Edited April 15, 2008 by rebeccajo

[eric_and_teresa 10]

Somebody will probably be happy now to come along and educate me about cultural customs I'm not aware of, or the desire of the couple to please the immigrant partner's family. That's a situation I wasn't in personally but I can still appreciate the desire of the couple to satisfy customs and family. But it's the US government you are applying for a visa through, and US law which ultimately applies.

Yes, the U.S. Law applies for all the immigration related matters. Not, when it comes to determine if a person should be considered single or married.

For a marriage to be considered legal in the U.S. it has to be legal on the country where it took place, so it isn't the U.S. law that applies, its the civil law of the place where the marriage is celebrated. That is one of the basic rules of the Private International Law. How the CO makes a non-legal marriage legally binding, when the marriage is not considered legal on the country where it was celebrated, its still beyond my understanding!

Take for example, my country... you need to meet certain requirements and follow a specific procedure when marrying a foreign person, the person who performs the wedding has to be a notary, and most important, the marriage certificate needs to be registered at the Registrer's Office. Without ANY of those requierements (especially the registration one) the marriage is not legally recognized. A religious wedding is not legally binding. It is actually, customary here to have 2 weddings, a civil one an a religious one. So if I had a religious wedding but not a civil one I would NEVER be considered married, my civil status would remain single for the authorities of my country, so why would the CO go above what my country's civil law establishes, and make a non-legal wedding legally binding just because he says so? Again, the US law applies with all the immigration related but not on what definies the person's civil status, that is determined by the law of the place where the marriage is taking place.

IMO, the problem with the OP was that his fiance was not well aware that the ceremony they had was not legally bindind and was unable to explain that to the CO. And of course the worst mistake, was that she agreed to sign the withdrawal.

A bit off the topic, but still related to your post The decision of having a ceremony on the foreign fiance's country, is not always about pleasing the family. Sometimes, it is about pleasing the foreign fiance who is quiting her job, giving up her profession, selling everything she owns, and leaving behind everything else to move to her loved one's country That was a valid reason for my fiance to agree with me on having a non legally binding religious ceremony here. I'm very confident we will have no problems with it at all.

[eric_and_teresa 10]

If anyone is going to do a non-legally binding cermony for whatever reason. Make sure you completly understand the marriage laws of the country you plan to do the cermony in. Do not give the CO or Immigration officers any reason to suspect that you might be married.

[rebeccajo 14]

IMO, the problem with the OP was that his fiance was not well aware that the ceremony they had was not legally bindind and was unable to explain that to the CO. And of course the worst mistake, was that she agreed to sign the withdrawal.

A bit off the topic, but still related to your post The decision of having a ceremony on the foreign fiance's country, is not always about pleasing the family. Sometimes, it is about pleasing the foreign fiance who is quiting her job, giving up her profession, selling everything she owns, and leaving behind everything else to move to her loved one's country That was a valid reason for my fiance to agree with me on having a non legally binding religious ceremony here. I'm very confident we will have no problems with it at all.

I agree with your analysis of what happened at this interview except for one detail. From what others have written, it appears this type of ceremony typically results in a legal union. Yes, the beneficiary was not prepared to explain that it wasn't. But a CO shouldn't be expected to believe (without proof) a story that doesn't 'fit' a cultural norm.

As for your 'off topic' comments, I don't think they are off topic at all. I've always said that we as USC's really don't comprehend what the immigrant gives up. We know it and we understand it, but we don't experience it personally. I have a lot of respect for that. On the other hand, I'm not sure what that has to do with having a ceremony at home. All little girls grow up dreaming of their wedding day. It might add another layer of sadness to leave home never having had the wedding ceremony one dreamed of as a child. As a US woman, I see many of my female peers on Vj give up their dreams of a grand celebration due to the constraints of immigration.

There's a lot of this process, IMO, where the head has to rule over the heart. I'm horribly practical and personally don't have as much trouble with making those decisions as other people. A wedding celebration is ultimately just a means to an end from my perspective, much like filing all these papers in order to spend my life with my husband was. If others wish to do something different, that's their prerogative.