What Makes Obama Run

[Heracles 417]

Steven do you know how many random people PM me saying why do you even bother arguing with 'them'? They are a lynch mob!

No? A lot. And I don't know any of them.

I was thinking about what you said. Geniuses like Steven and co seem to forget that VJ has way over 44,000 members. Therefore even if 10 of them gang up on someone with opposing views, as they usually do, they hardly represent even 0.1% of views on VJ, let alone 1%. Yet they seem to act as if their group's views, as the usual group backs each other up, represents the majority here.

I really respect you sticking by your views of Hillary rather than simply jumping on a three word slogan political band-wagon. And then calling everyone else an idiot who just so happens to disagree.

[no name 1]

Steven do you know how many random people PM me saying why do you even bother arguing with 'them'? They are a lynch mob!

No? A lot. And I don't know any of them.

I was thinking about what you said. Geniuses like Steven and co seem to forget that VJ has way over 44,000 members. Therefore even if 10 of them gang up on someone with opposing views, as they usually do, they hardly represent even 0.1% of views on VJ, let alone 1%. Yet they seem to act as if their group's views, as the usual group backs each other up, represents the majority here.

I really respect you sticking by your views of Hillary rather than simply jumping on a three word slogan political band-wagon. And then calling everyone else an idiot who just so happens to disagree.

Well, metta can't fight this battle alone. Plus, when polls are made on VJ, there are quite a few HC suppporters lurking. (Thank you, whoever you are!) The name-calling & blind following has only made me a stronger supporter of HC.

It's all men too - who are aggressively anti-HC - but we can't mention the 'M' or 'S' word...

Edited April 8, 2008 by illumine

[GaryC 7]

He's obviously not a dye-in-the-liberal that you might think he is. From what I gather, his life experiences as child born from a white mother and African father who abandoned his family have had a profound impact on his views. He's as much white as he is black, accept that as far as first impressions go, people throughout his life, have only seen him as black.

I read that. I wasn't referring to his liberalism. All you have to do is look at his voting record to see that he falls on the side of the liberals 100% of the time. My question was about something else. I am worried that he will be so focused on helping out his race that he will not address the rest of the problems in America. Or worse yet try to stack the deck in his races favor. I hate to try and bring race into this discussion but that is what this story is about.

Decoding his political leanings is the easiest thing in the world. He is the most liberal Senator currently serving.

Yeah, well anything left of far right is considered liberal to some.

Well there is liberal and then there is Liberal. Look it up. Obama literally has the most liberal voting record in the senate. He has never "reached accross the isle" to work with the other party. How he will unite the nation is beyond me. As far as I can see he will polarize us more than we are now.

Not sure where you heard or read that from (Limbaugh?), Gary, but here's some facts on his bipartisanship...

Obama was a key co-sponsor of the Federal Funding Accountability and Transparency Act (S.2590) with the bill's primary sponsor, Republican Sen. Tom Coburn (OK). In a press release upon Senate passage of the bill, Coburn himself referred to the legislation as the "Coburn-Obama Bill."

Obama also worked with Republican Sen. Richard Lugar (IN) to produce the "Lugar-Obama proliferation and threat reduction initiative," which President Bush signed into law on January 11, 2007, and which received funding on June 28 of that year. The initiative, according to Obama's Senate website, "expands U.S. cooperation to destroy conventional weapons. It also expands the State Department's ability to detect and interdict weapons and materials of mass destruction."

In addition, four of the 12 co-sponsors of Obama's bill (S.2125) to "promote relief, security, and democracy in the Democratic Republic of Congo" were Republicans: Sam Brownback (KS), Susan Collins (ME), Mike DeWine (OH), and James Inhofe (OK). President Bush signed the bill into law on December 22, 2006.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200803280011

Alright, I stand corrected on that point. But my point of his voting record stands. I only have time for a quick search so forgive the source.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=18967

But here are a few highlights:

To prohibit partial-birth abortion unless necessary to save the life of a mother and makes performance of the procedure a Class 4 felony for the physician. NO

A part of the Born Alive Infant Protection Package. Would create a cause of action of a child is born alive after an abortion and the child is then neglected through failure to provide medial care after birth. NO

To require prisoners to pay court costs for frivolous lawsuits against the state. NO

To give no offer of "good time" for sex offenders sentenced to the County Jail.

*Obama was the only vote against this measure NO

To restrict the location of buildings with "adult" uses (meaning pornographic video stores, strip clubs, etc.) within 1,000 feet of any public or private elementary or secondary school, public park, place or worship, preschool, day-care facility, mobile park or residential area. PRESENT

To require school boards to install software on public computers accessible to minors to block sexually explicit material. NO

Changes the "Illinois Equal Opportunity Act of 1997" to stipulate, notwithstanding any law to the contrary, any unit of government or school district that gives benefits to same-sex couples under any criteria must give equal benefits to heterosexual couples. NO

To allow the purchase of 10 hypodermic needles from a pharmacy without a prescription. YES

To establish a zero-tolerance drug-testing policy for Department of Corrections Employees PRESENT

That is just a sampling of his record. To me it's enough to say he is a 100% partisan and not willing to work with the "other side". Just because he worked on 2 bills with reps isn't enough by a long shot.

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

To restrict the location of buildings with "adult" uses (meaning pornographic video stores, strip clubs, etc.) within 1,000 feet of any public or private elementary or secondary school, public park, place or worship, preschool, day-care facility, mobile park or residential area. PRESENT

I'm actually quite curious why he would have voted "present" on this one

[rebeccajo 14]

Well, metta can't fight this battle alone. Plus, when polls are made on VJ, there are quite a few HC suppporters lurking. (Thank you, whoever you are!) The name-calling & blind following has only made me a stronger supporter worshiper of HC.

It's all men too - who are aggressively anti-HC - but we can't mention the 'M' or 'S' word...

There. Fixed that for ya.

[Nessa 23]

spiders

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Alright, I stand corrected on that point. But my point of his voting record stands. I only have time for a quick search so forgive the source.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=18967

That is just a sampling of his record. To me it's enough to say he is a 100% partisan and not willing to work with the "other side". Just because he worked on 2 bills with reps isn't enough by a long shot.

Obviously he's not going to support most of what you support and vice versa, but his record of bipartisanship is commendable.

Here's some other interesting tidbits...

The Times of London reports on Obama’s plans to consider Republicans for his cabinet:

Obama believes he will be able to neutralise McCain by drawing on the expertise of independent Republicans such as Hagel and Lugar, who is regarded by Obama as a potential secretary of state.

Larry Korb, a defence official under President Ronald Reagan who is backing Obama, said: “By putting a Republican in the Pentagon and the State Department you send a signal to Congress and the American people that issues of national security are above politics.”

Korb recalled that President John F Kennedy appointed Robert McNamara, a Republican, as defence secretary in 1961. “Hagel is not only a Republican but a military veteran who would reassure the troops that there was somebody in the Pentagon who understood their hopes, concerns and fears,” he said.

While the appointment of McNamara did not turn out very well, we cannot judge all potential Republican cabinet members based upon his failings.

Obama’s record both in the Illinois legislature and in the Senate is far stronger than as described by Igantius, including measures involving achieving bipartisan support. I previously wrote about Obama’s record here. Ignatius also revives the bogus attacks on Obama for voting present in the Illinois legislature. Members of the Illinois legislature have defended Obama’s record as noted here. I also had more on this issue here. An op-ed at The Chicago Tribune has argued that this disparagement of Obama’s voting record doesn’t hold up. Lorna Brett Howard, the former President of Chicago NOW, changed her support from Clinton to Obama after seeing how Clinton was distorting Obama’s record.

Obama’s ability to transcend partisan divides can also be seen in the support he receives from independents and even some Republicans. Another example can be seen in the influence of Obama’s economic advisers from the University of Chicago. This leads to a number of economic policies which transcend the traditional left versus right divide by promoting progressive aims with consideration of conservative Chicago School economic views.

http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=2986

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

VJ has way over 44,000 members.

Its does - but not all 44000 are active, and not all of the active members are active in O/T.

Therefore even if 10 of them gang up on someone with opposing views, as they usually do, they hardly represent even 0.1% of views on VJ, let alone 1%. Yet they seem to act as if their group's views, as the usual group backs each other up, represents the majority here.

With views as outlandish and (key word) changeable as yours - I'm not sure what you expect. Half the frustration with you is that you can't keep a train of thought going without branching off onto irrelevancies.

You then act as though the irrelevance is "the point", when it clearly isn't.

The Schizoid man.

[Heracles 417]

With views as outlandish and (key word) changeable as yours - I'm not sure what you expect. Half the frustration with you is that you can't keep a train of thought going without branching off onto irrelevancies.

You then act as though the irrelevance is "the point", when it clearly isn't.

The Schizoid man.

Hence why this is a forum. Exchange of ideas etc. You need to read up on its purpose sometime.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

With views as outlandish and (key word) changeable as yours - I'm not sure what you expect. Half the frustration with you is that you can't keep a train of thought going without branching off onto irrelevancies.

You then act as though the irrelevance is "the point", when it clearly isn't.

The Schizoid man.

Hence why this is a forum. Exchange of ideas etc. You need to read up on its purpose sometime.

Oh I get the idea. "Coherent" is the crucial modifier you forgot. Specifically, the ability to sustain a train of thought without deviating off into irrelevancies.

[GaryC 7]

Alright, I stand corrected on that point. But my point of his voting record stands. I only have time for a quick search so forgive the source.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=18967

That is just a sampling of his record. To me it's enough to say he is a 100% partisan and not willing to work with the "other side". Just because he worked on 2 bills with reps isn't enough by a long shot.

Obviously he's not going to support most of what you support and vice versa, but his record of bipartisanship is commendable.

Here's some other interesting tidbits...

The Times of London reports on Obama’s plans to consider Republicans for his cabinet:

Obama believes he will be able to neutralise McCain by drawing on the expertise of independent Republicans such as Hagel and Lugar, who is regarded by Obama as a potential secretary of state.

Larry Korb, a defence official under President Ronald Reagan who is backing Obama, said: “By putting a Republican in the Pentagon and the State Department you send a signal to Congress and the American people that issues of national security are above politics.”

Korb recalled that President John F Kennedy appointed Robert McNamara, a Republican, as defence secretary in 1961. “Hagel is not only a Republican but a military veteran who would reassure the troops that there was somebody in the Pentagon who understood their hopes, concerns and fears,” he said.

While the appointment of McNamara did not turn out very well, we cannot judge all potential Republican cabinet members based upon his failings.

Obama’s record both in the Illinois legislature and in the Senate is far stronger than as described by Igantius, including measures involving achieving bipartisan support. I previously wrote about Obama’s record here. Ignatius also revives the bogus attacks on Obama for voting present in the Illinois legislature. Members of the Illinois legislature have defended Obama’s record as noted here. I also had more on this issue here. An op-ed at The Chicago Tribune has argued that this disparagement of Obama’s voting record doesn’t hold up. Lorna Brett Howard, the former President of Chicago NOW, changed her support from Clinton to Obama after seeing how Clinton was distorting Obama’s record.

Obama’s ability to transcend partisan divides can also be seen in the support he receives from independents and even some Republicans. Another example can be seen in the influence of Obama’s economic advisers from the University of Chicago. This leads to a number of economic policies which transcend the traditional left versus right divide by promoting progressive aims with consideration of conservative Chicago School economic views.

http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=2986

A story from "liberalvalues"? Jeez, I thought I taught you better than that. These appointments are just talk. He will load up the cabinet with like minded people. And Hagel and Luger are far from mainstream republicans. They lean more towards the center.

You support who you want. Thats your right. But don't delude yourself into thinking that Obama will unite anything. He will tear this country apart more than you think Bush did. Of course the shoe will be on the other foot and it will be us b!tching while your going, "what? Everything is great!" But in the end we will be even more divided than today.

[Heracles 417]

Oh I get the idea. "Coherent" is the crucial modifier you forgot. Specifically, the ability to sustain a train of thought without deviating off into irrelevancies.

Give me a break 'Coherent'. A threads direction can and will change.

The difference is that you and your select buddies seem to have a real complex with people you don't agree with. And you have proven this true, once again, in this thread with regards to a person's view of Hillary.

Edit: What is clear us that your views, and your pals views, are irrelevant and hardly represent a fraction of VJ let alone the United States of America or the UK..

Edited April 8, 2008 by Boo-Yah!

[one...two...tree 2,762]

A story from "liberalvalues"? Jeez, I thought I taught you better than that. These appointments are just talk. He will load up the cabinet with like minded people. And Hagel and Luger are far from mainstream republicans. They lean more towards the center.

You support who you want. Thats your right. But don't delude yourself into thinking that Obama will unite anything. He will tear this country apart more than you think Bush did. Of course the shoe will be on the other foot and it will be us b!tching while your going, "what? Everything is great!" But in the end we will be even more divided than today.

I hope you're wrong, Gary. I'm 99 percent certain that our next President will be Democrat and equally certain that Obama will be the nominee. Hopefully, he will work towards bipartisanship, but more importantly, get this country on the right track.

[Nessa 23]

ghosts

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

And Hagel and Luger are far from mainstream republicans. They lean more towards the center.

I would have thought that "mainstream Republicans" lean towards the center. That's where most Americans are - it's a minority that subscribe to idealogical absolutes.